M3/M4 vs W205 C63 AMG

[Tonymiabmw]

Pretty close at least m5 has new front quarter panels, bumper
(E63 top, e400 bottom)

[Tonymiabmw]

Much different

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw

Much different

I think both the E63 and M5 look substantially different than their standard counterparts. This is especially the case when you see both cars side by side in person. There obviously are some similarities as the M and AMG variants are based off of the standard cars.

It's a moot point anyway because true enthusiasts know the difference between an E63 and an E550 or the difference between an M5 and a 550i with the M Sport package.

To the rest of the world, a BMW is a BMW. Hell, most people can't tell the difference between a 3er and 5er or a 7er and 5er, let alone the F80 M3 from the F30 M Sport.

I prefer the muscular and aggressive lines (including the twin power domes on the hood) of the W204 C63 to the softer, rounder lines that will be utilized on the standard W205 C-Class (no AMG variant has been officially revealed yet). The only thing the W204 C63 is lacking is more pronounced rear fender flares.

Chris Harris is a big fan of the bodywork on the W204 C63 and the LCI W212 E63. So am I. Taste in exterior styling is highly subjective and varies from person to person.

However, this will always be ugly:

[Mr T]

I am trading in my three month old C63 507 Edition for an M3 in June. I just don't get on with the car....too brutal lacks sophistication. 500hp+ is also too much for the UK roads. Having driven an Alpina B3 my sense is the M3 will be a perfect companion for general road use. The twin turbo engine felt as a tractable as the C63 but was much more usable and less intimidating..... I look forward to the road tests! The V8 in the E63 is just not as exciting as the C63 so I would expect the new C63 to be a less exciting but perhaps better for it.....

[JS919]

In my opinion for a high performance sport sedan/coupe in this class the the M F8x drivetrain is the winner versus the current C63 and the speculated new C63. If you have two turbos, 3.0l and 6 cylinders is enough engine. No need to add the weight that two more cylinders brings. Of course the I6 is the superior 6 cylinder layout. In a couple years there will be 600HP tunes for the S55 engine. The Twin turbo V8 is more suited to the E63 & M5 class car.

I think the BMW wins with the M-DCT or manual transmission options and the active rear differential as well.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Jonas

In my opinion for a high performance sport sedan/coupe in this class the the M F8x drivetrain is the winner versus the current C63 and the speculated new C63. If you have two turbos, 3.0l and 6 cylinders is enough engine. No need to add the weight that two more cylinders brings.

Good point, but obviously we don't know details of the M177 yet so it's too early to say for sure. The word is that the engine is very compact. With some concerted effort it should be possible to design a V8 that is only a little heavier than the I6. Remember, this is an AMG-specific engine and not the corporate go-to V8 like the VAG 4.0L turbo. Also, the V8 layout potentially presents the opportunity for better weight distribution.

I think the BMW wins with the M-DCT or manual transmission options and the active rear differential as well.

DCT in particular is a huge plus for the BMW, no doubt.

[ss134]

I think there is a potential for the first time with this generation that the M3 may not be best in class. The gap in recent years has been narrowing and I get the feeling that if MB go to town on the new C63 it could blow the F80 away.

If MB manage to bring the weight down, offer a double clutch and continue it's improvement from the ' 12 models regarding handling the M might have met it's match because one thing is guaranteed and that is this car will be packing some serious firepower.

There again....we don't know how the F80 will drive and handle- it may be spectacular and there is also the possibility that the S55 has been underrated.

Looking forward to the comparisons when both cars come out.

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by ss134

I think there is a potential for the first time with this generation that the M3 may not be best in class. The gap in recent years has been narrowing and I get the feeling that if MB go to town on the new C63 it could blow the F80 away.

If MB manage to bring the weight down, offer a double clutch and continue it's improvement from the ' 12 models regarding handling the M might have met it's match because one thing is guaranteed and that is this car will be packing some serious firepower.

There again....we don't know how the F80 will drive and handle- it may be spectacular and there is also the possibility that the S55 has been underrated.

Looking forward to the comparisons when both cars come out.

I used to be a BMW fanatic but now I'm hoping MB does raise the bar and give BMW a good kick in the pants in terms of not only superior hp, but handling and performance. The lighter F8x notwithstanding, BMW's have been generally getting softer with each generation so they're befitting to be beaten.

Having said that, MB has always had the engineering capability to knock out the 3-Series for but have not succeeded. Yeah the Black Series was a contender but only at a stratospheric price point which makes it an inconsequential contender.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by ss134

I think there is a potential for the first time with this generation that the M3 may not be best in class. The gap in recent years has been narrowing and I get the feeling that if MB go to town on the new C63 it could blow the F80 away.

If MB manage to bring the weight down, offer a double clutch and continue it's improvement from the ' 12 models regarding handling the M might have met it's match because one thing is guaranteed and that is this car will be packing some serious firepower.

There again....we don't know how the F80 will drive and handle- it may be spectacular and there is also the possibility that the S55 has been underrated.

Looking forward to the comparisons when both cars come out.

That allready happened with the E9x gen M3. Many comparison tests lost to it's rivals... Either Evo or CAR called the E46 a better M3 when the E9x was launched!

Not saying the E9x is bad at all, just that both the RS4 and C63 has beaten it in many comparison tests...

[ss134]

Originally Posted by Boss330

That allready happened with the E9x gen M3. Many comparison tests lost to it's rivals... Either Evo or CAR called the E46 a better M3 when the E9x was launched!

Not saying the E9x is bad at all, just that both the RS4 and C63 has beaten it in many comparison tests...

The E9x M3 did lose some comparisons but it won out a lot more than it lost. It was still considered by the majority to be the best ' drivers' car.

The next generation of all 3 cars will be interesting to say the least- I am hoping that ///M have realised that the competition is closing in and really thrown everything they've got into the new M3 and made a great M car. I genuinely feel that this could be one of BMWs most important cars in the last 20 years, the ///M legend has been tarnished by cars like X5/6M , the high revving NA motors have gone and all M cars have gradually been getting heavier and softer- this generation needs to deliver and I think they know that.

The wait for the magazine tests and test drives is killing me!

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

I used to be a BMW fanatic but now I'm hoping MB does raise the bar and give BMW a good kick in the pants in terms of not only superior hp, but handling and performance. The lighter F8x notwithstanding, BMW's have been generally getting softer with each generation so they're befitting to be beaten.

Having said that, MB has always had the engineering capability to knock out the 3-Series for but have not succeeded. Yeah the Black Series was a contender but only at a stratospheric price point which makes it an inconsequential contender.

Where? M3 has always had less power and always ruled AMGs. I think of the e55 vs the e39 and what hog the e55 was.It was only good at going straight. AMGs solution is always to strap a bigger engine is the car and hope the car is better than what the M division does. To be fair I drove a C63 and a CTS-v before I bought my E90. Neither felt close to e90. But the C63 did feel a lot like CTS-v in terms of transmission and handling, not my cup of tea. M cars always feel more connected to the road to me.Porsche>BMW>Mercedes the way I will always see it. If Porsche made a sport sedan I would buy it. I hate the Panamara

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw

Where? M3 has always had less power and always ruled AMGs. I think of the e55 vs the e39 and what hog the e55 was.It was only good at going straight. AMGs solution is always to strap a bigger engine is the car and hope the car is better than what the M division does. To be fair I drove a C63 and a CTS-v before I bought my E90. Neither felt close to e90. But the C63 did feel a lot like CTS-v in terms of transmission and handling, not my cup of tea. M cars always feel more connected to the road to me.Porsche>BMW>Mercedes the way I will always see it. If Porsche made a sport sedan I would buy it. I hate the Panamara

It all depends on what year you test drove the C63.

That's how different the LCI models are from the non-LCI models.

This is what Chris Harris recently said about the '12+ C63:

"The BMW won many of the original magazine group tests, but having run both for longer periods as everyday wheels, I think the Merc is a better all-rounder.

AMG's launch strategy has been frantic since the C63 arrived, so it's easy to forget just how differently the company is perceived now, compared to 2007. Where once we had vast engines and little attention paid to chassis dynamics, now the cars are genuine M rivals.

And there have been some absolute belters too - but even among E63s and SLSs, the C63 has always had an inherent rightness to it that makes it, for me, the best AMG product ever made. It just looks right, feels right, sounds right and goes like someone inserted a hot poker in its exit-hole."

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

It all depends on what year you test drove the C63.

That's how different the LCI models are from the non-LCI models.

This is what Chris Harris recently said about the '12+ C63:

"The BMW won many of the original magazine group tests, but having run both for longer periods as everyday wheels, I think the Merc is a better all-rounder.

AMG's launch strategy has been frantic since the C63 arrived, so it's easy to forget just how differently the company is perceived now, compared to 2007. Where once we had vast engines and little attention paid to chassis dynamics, now the cars are genuine M rivals.

And there have been some absolute belters too - but even among E63s and SLSs, the C63 has always had an inherent rightness to it that makes it, for me, the best AMG product ever made. It just looks right, feels right, sounds right and goes like someone inserted a hot poker in its exit-hole."

What are rumors on when new C63 will be unveiled?

[Retina]

Paris Auto Show in September

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw

What are rumors on when new C63 will be unveiled?

Originally Posted by Retina

Paris Auto Show in September

That is correct.

Most recent render:

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

That is correct.

Most recent render:

Is wheel base the same on new C as f30, C looks shorter? Maybe it's a illusion because the body lines on the side come to curve to the back.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw

Is wheel base the same on new C as f30, C looks shorter? Maybe it's a illusion because the body lines on the side come to curve to the back.

No official word on specifications. All that has been confirmed is that due to increased use of high-strength aluminum, the new W205 C-Class will be at least 110 lbs lighter than the outgoing W204.

FWIW, my C63 feels comparable in size to an E90 M3.

Since the new CLA is longer (and wider) than the W204, I expect the W205 to be slightly longer (and wider) than the W204.

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

No official word on specifications. All that has been confirmed is that due to increased use of high-strength aluminum, the new W205 C-Class will be at least 110 lbs lighter than the outgoing W204.

FWIW, my C63 feels comparable in size to an E90 M3.

Since the new CLA is longer (and wider) than the W204, I expect the W205 to be slightly longer (and wider) than the W204.

Well isn't that the case with the f80? Isn't it as long as e60 M5? Mid sized sedans seem to be getting bigger. I know new F10 is way bigger than e60

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw

Well isn't that the case with the f80? Isn't it as long as e60 M5? Mid sized sedans seem to be getting bigger. I know new F10 is way bigger than e60

Yeah the W205 is likely to be bigger.

Don't look now but there are rumors swirling that there will be 2 versions of the next W205 C63.

There will be a standard RWD C63 AMG with 476 hp.

Furthermore, there will also be a C63-S AMG model with 510 hp and AWD.

Just rumors at this point though.

[mkoesel]

I've pretty much decided on an F80. Though I said that I'd get a sedan last time around as well, my kids really are outgrowing the convertible (rear leg room is less than E90/E92), and I need as much space as I can get for future expansion.

But, if Mercedes offers a C63 convertible in a few years, especially one with over 500hp, it is really going to be a major temptation.

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I've pretty much decided on an F80. Though I said that I'd get a sedan last time around as well, my kids really are outgrowing the convertible (rear leg room is less than E90/E92), and I need as much space as I can for future expansion.

But, if Mercedes offers a C63 convertible in a few years, especially one with over 500hp, it is really going to be a major temptation.

In all honesty if I drove the Mercedes and liked it, I would get one. My lease is up in my e90 in April. So doesn't look like a option.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I've pretty much decided on an F80. Though I said that I'd get a sedan last time around as well, my kids really are outgrowing the convertible (rear leg room is less than E90/E92), and I need as much space as I can for future expansion.

But, if Mercedes offers a C63 convertible in a few years, especially one with over 500hp, it is really going to be a major temptation.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted by the F80. I'm holding out until Chris Harris and others get their hands on it.

There has been a lot of hype (deservedly so, as the weight has dropped, the power and torque have increased, etc.) but I'd like to see the hype validated. I still have to drive it too.

My biggest mistake with the F30 M Sport 335i was basically just pulling the trigger without driving it (only drove a 328i Sport Line).

And then, even if I end up enamored with the F80, I'll probably force myself to wait for the 2015 C63 to drop. Decisions, decisions. It is a great time to be a car enthusiast, that's for sure (although it does suck that all of the NA V8s are getting killed off like the dinosaurs ).