F8X M3/M4 Competition Package?

[Savory]

Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw

ZCP was wheels, lower ride height and steering ratio. M3 competition package will not be as extensive as the M5's. I can promise that. M3 competition is nothing that can't be done aftermarket.

You are referring to the E46 right? E92 didn't have a steering rack change

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by Patronus86

The new M3/M4 will turbo-charged engines that will be highly tunable, in theory at least; we'll need to see how much encryption BMW put into this new ecu. But look at what they did with the N54 engine. Baseline hp/tq was 300hp/300lb-ft. They tuned that engine for the 1M and 335is to get 320hp/330lb-ft and 370lb-ft overboost. And aftermarket tuners were able to get a consistent 400hp/420lb-ft without jeopardizing the engine or the turbos. It is not unreasonable to think that BMW provide a similarly scaled performance bump for the competition package of the M3 and M4.

Head over to m5post lol we can't even get the Speedlimiter removed state-side and I'm at the speed limiter in 4th gear of the 7 dct gears lol... Dinan had 5 software engineers working on it and they're doing a TCU[nice word for piggy] which will probably only have minor improvements over what terry did with his piggyback http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showpos...6&postcount=11

iND is breaking ecus left and right, the bosche ecu's in mine and every other m5 have at least 16+bit encryptions [probably 128bit and higher]

The thing that the m4/m3 has going for it is the market size is considerably larger to make profit in vs. a brand new 100k+ luxo sedan and hopefully we'll see more companies working on it like ESS, etc. and really get this thing resolved..

Terry is almost into the 700s with just meth and base piggyback for the m5 so the power is there to be had and run safely, and personally if a piggyback and downpipes can get the m4 to like 480-510 and 450-480lbs of torque being so much lighter than the m5 I think it'll surprise a lot of crap with that dct... Its just can we get access to it, something I hope the m3/m4 tuners really figure out.

Meth numbers from terry on the m5 with piggyback no intake no exhaust

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showpos...29&postcount=8

So in short I doubt you'll see ease of access like the N54 which allowed tuners to play with every aspect of the car and perfect it to run perfectly... All we can hope for is that either they're doing new ecus for the m3/m4 that are easier than the m5, or with the amount of money to be made via the larger user base the m3/m4 will have over the m5 it'll entice tuners to spend the money on R&D and really crack this open.

[Black Gold]

ESS is gonna have to get on the software / hardware train for the new m3. obviously they wont sell many SC kits for the new m3

I would be freaking out about my business model if that was my company. BMW is all FI now, as is everyone else. So the SC business isn't exactly going to be booming for long......best of luck to them

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

ESS is gonna have to get on the software / hardware train for the new m3. obviously they wont sell many SC kits for the new m3

I would be freaking out about my business model if that was my company. BMW is all FI now, as is everyone else. So the SC business isn't exactly going to be booming for long......best of luck to them

I hope because if its the same level of encryption that the m5 and having dual ecu's controlling the banks I think you'll see a lot of people settle for piggyback tmap trick boosting, which isn't exactly safe because everyones car will be built differently and while some won't have problems some might be less reliable and if the only options we'll have is indiscriminately upping boost via piggyback I think you'll see some cars perform and some will fail.

I think worst case you'll see Piggy,exhaust, intakes, downpipes, meth and it'll still add 100+whp and with the dct and weight loss over my m5 if they can just hit stock whp numbers of the m5, it should be able to f* up a lot of cars, but with a stuck speed limiter and the inability to really see whats going on realtime like the cobb etc. on the n54 platforms it could be ugly since you'll have a considerable larger amount of people trying to get the most power so I think we'll see some horror stories over the n54 because you just won't know until its too late, something the m5 base hasn't seen since we're all pretty careful with running the perimeters terry/tuners tells us (I've not even tried 3lbs of boost and 100 octane with Terrys even though I got the go-ahead from him because he said its something I shouldn't try to run daily but should be ok at the track every now and then).

[Poofyo101]

This is the only thing holding me back to buy it NOW. What are the chances it happens next year?

[Ghetto2315]

Originally Posted by Poofyo101

This is the only thing holding me back to buy it NOW. What are the chances it happens next year?

Slim to none. Only way BMW offers a ZCP Package for the M3/M4 in it's 2nd model year is if it falls flat on its face in terms of sales numbers and performance figures. Judging by the interest already with pre-orders and the performance numbers making it one of the fastest BMW's ever, I would say you should enjoy it's rookie season in the big leagues

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Ghetto2315

Slim to none. Only way BMW offers a ZCP Package for the M3/M4 in it's 2nd model year is if it falls flat on its face in terms of sales numbers and performance figures. Judging by the interest already with pre-orders and the performance numbers making it one of the fastest BMW's ever, I would say you should enjoy it's rookie season in the big leagues

Huh? It's going to be a low to mid 12s car with a ~116 mph trap which is fast but not nearly as fast as the m5/6 but there are tons of fast cars now. The merc AMGs are even faster and so are the panamera turbo/S. Also the new s6/8 and rs7 are all very fast as well.

I still want to see a Ring time bc I have a feeling it dorsnt have such a good time since we've heard nothing about it. And the ring is just a great indicator of a cars overall peformance.

[Ghetto2315]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Huh? It's going to be a low to mid 12s car with a ~116 mph trap which is fast but not nearly as fast as the m5/6 but there are tons of fast cars now. The merc AMGs are even faster and so are the panamera turbo/S. Also the new s6/8 and rs7 are all very fast as well.

I still want to see a Ring time bc I have a feeling it dorsnt have such a good time since we've heard nothing about it. And the ring is just a great indicator of a cars overall peformance.

I said one of the fastest BMW models as in within the BMW model range and it's history. The current E9X does the quarter already in mid to low 12's and you think the F8X M3/M4 with 100+ more ft lbs of TQ, a little more HP and most importantly lighter weight, it won't crack in to the 11's?!?! With the E9X M3 completing the ring in 8:05, I would not be happy with anything less than 7:50 with the F8X M3/M4. Forget the competition. I'm not worried about what they are doing...

Edit: A source from BMW already said that the M4 will be "10-secs faster" than the outgoing M3. And I still think he's being conservative! Show me 7:40!!!!!

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by Ghetto2315

I said one of the fastest BMW models as in within the BMW model range and it's history. The current E9X does the quarter already in mid to low 12's and you think the F8X M3/M4 with 100+ more ft lbs of TQ, a little more HP and most importantly lighter weight, it won't crack in to the 11's?!?! With the E9X M3 completing the ring in 8:05, I would not be happy with anything less than 7:50 with the F8X M3/M4. Forget the competition. I'm not worried about what they are doing...

Edit: A source from BMW already said that the M4 will be "10-secs faster" than the outgoing M3. And I still think he's being conservative! Show me 7:40!!!!!

You leave out the improved DCT over both the M3 and the non M is DCT... A VERY good chance the car will be underrated.... See below on the m5 [with charcoal filters in]

The cars got a lot going for it before we even start talking Piggy/Tune, Intake, exhaust, DP's, tires, Meth/E85... If it isn't between 11.8-12.5 I'd be shocked, just saying from watching a 4385lb [+driver] M5 running 11.3.s-12.2s in all kinds of conditions from bald tires, to cold PSS, etc.

[zenderm3]

Hi All,

Not sure how long it took the M5/M6 to get their competition pack. I am trying to figure out if I go for the first release M3 and then re-order again when the competition pack is released in three years?

Would be good to hear from those that perhaps went from M5 to M5 Competition pack...

[Jason]

First M5 deliveries began in Jan 2012.

The M5 Competition Package was announced May 2013.

First M5 with Competition Package delivered August 2013.

Keep in mind there's no guarantee that the M3/M4 will follow this timing.

[Poofyo101]

This is the only reason I'm still waiting to order.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by Poofyo101

This is the only reason I'm still waiting to order.

A BMS piggy back beats CP M5's all day... Also most people who've gotten them if you head over to M5post aren't as happy with the MINOR changes that the package provides, one guy is even trying to change the suspension because of those minor changes lol... It is a tad better on power delivery but then again moot point when one can spend 449 on Terry's BMS and destroy a 7000 dollar package.


Either way beyond your waiting probably putting you in a better negotiating position vs. people who get them right away I think you're wasting your time waiting for it, and even more so if they figure out a true tune and you overwrite the map anyway lol. Basically you're waiting on an overpriced PPK

[CanAutM3]

Got this from the M2 thread. It could be a good indication

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

It won't cannibalize the M3/M4 because by the time it arrives on the market.

Both will be around two years old and heading for the next progressive step.

[gmd2003]

The main people talking negative about the competition pack are those that don't have it lol . Having driven both an m6 CP and non extensively I think I can be objective . These are the benefits in order of an enthusiast who tracks regularly and appreciates dynamics .
1.)Steering: The 20% shorter steering ratio , revised bushings , and revised control arms up front added a TON of steering feel to the car . This is the way it should have come from the factory in the first place . Whole thing is worth it just for this . People who do a 10 min test drive at 45 mph and say they can't tell ( duh ) . The second you push the car the difference is massive .
2) suspension :
The springs and dampers are both 20% stiffer and the car is lowered 10mm . This was another huge difference between the standard car . Much less body roll, and the car is jus much more composed and controllable at the limit , and in just everyday highway speed lane changes .
3.) reprogrammed MDM :
The new MDM mode puts the power down extremely well while allowing a little more tail out action .
4.)Power: The CP is likely a bit more than 15 hp , my stock Vbox runs of 11.6@127 proves that . Can you do a piggyback to increase the power more sure , but so can I . And then the CP car will still be sig faster than a non . The best thing is the dyno and butt dyno proven fact the CP makes more HP up until 7100 rpm . This makes it feel more like a classic M motor .
5.) CP exhaust : makes the aural experience significantly better than the too quiet standard exhaust . It actually has more pops and burbles than some of the aftermarket exhausts and the black chrome tips look great .
So as you can see you get a lot for 7k which if you wait from launch you can essentially get negotiated away from the price like I did . Do I wish these things were standard ? Of course , hell the suspension and steering should have been that way from the factory . But is the CP a more dynamic , fun car to drive than a standard M6 . Oh yeah. Without a doubt .
George

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

The main people talking negative about the competition pack are those that don't have it lol . Having driven both an m6 CP and non extensively I think I can be objective . These are the benefits in order of an enthusiast who tracks regularly and appreciates dynamics .
1.)Steering: The 20% shorter steering ratio , revised bushings , and revised control arms up front added a TON of steering feel to the car . This is the way it should have come from the factory in the first place . Whole thing is worth it just for this . People who do a 10 min test drive at 45 mph and say they can't tell ( duh ) . The second you push the car the difference is massive .
2) suspension :
The springs and dampers are both 20% stiffer and the car is lowered 10mm . This was another huge difference between the standard car . Much less body roll, and the car is jus much more composed and controllable at the limit , and in just everyday highway speed lane changes .
3.) reprogrammed MDM :
The new MDM mode puts the power down extremely well while allowing a little more tail out action .
4.)Power: The CP is likely a bit more than 15 hp , my stock Vbox runs of 11.6@127 proves that . Can you do a piggyback to increase the power more sure , but so can I . And then the CP car will still be sig faster than a non . The best thing is the dyno and butt dyno proven fact the CP makes more HP up until 7100 rpm . This makes it feel more like a classic M motor .
5.) CP exhaust : makes the aural experience significantly better than the too quiet standard exhaust . It actually has more pops and burbles than some of the aftermarket exhausts and the black chrome tips look great .
So as you can see you get a lot for 7k which if you wait from launch you can essentially get negotiated away from the price like I did . Do I wish these things were standard ? Of course , hell the suspension and steering should have been that way from the factory . But is the CP a more dynamic , fun car to drive than a standard M6 . Oh yeah. Without a doubt .
George

The CP on M3 will not be as extensive as the M5, it will have wheels and lower ride height and maybe steering. That's what's is always been on the M3

[dmk08]

My dealer seems to think the 16 model will have it as an option.

[Tonymiabmw]

Also ZCP on M3 wasn't offer till 3 years after M3 launch in 2011. Same with the e46

[19x]

Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw

Also ZCP on M3 wasn't offer till 3 years after M3 launch in 2011. Same with the e46

That's incorrect.

The ZCP on the e46 M3 in the US was first available as a 2005 model in December of 2004. That's exactly 4.5 years after the first 2001 model went into production in January of 2000.

[Arcoril]

F80/F82 ZCP timing will be completely dependent on how good/bad the W205 C63 AMG is.

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by Arcoril

F80/F82 ZCP timing will be completely dependent on how good/bad the W205 C63 AMG is.

Why? It won't add horsepower? ZCP is pointless. Can to the same thing aftermarket

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw

Why? It won't add horsepower? ZCP is pointless. Can to the same thing aftermarket

Why won't it? Doesn't the M5 add HP now that it's FI? The past isn't always the way of the future.