2015 Mustang benchmarked against outgoing M3. Already trailing the upcoming M4?

[F80M]

ford mustang ... eww

[swanson]

Originally Posted by DarthBimmer

At the end of the day..........

........the M3 is overpriced.

[tdizzle]

Originally Posted by vladberca

:

I'd like to see the comparative between the GT350 with the Track Pack and the 435i with the M Performance Goodies (but double the price nevertheless)

I think it would be a massacre with the GT350 coming out on top by a comfortable margin. The GT350 may very well best the F80 on the track.

The regular GT with appropriate levels of factory goodies will probably best the similarly equipped 435 and give the F80 a run for its money.

I don't think anyone wants put money on their 435 against a current gen GT, much less the upcoming one.

[kdiggz]

Originally Posted by XtoM

It's a car for the "basic model" that's why it doesn't sell well in the real world. Doesn't matter anyway you cut it, it's a domestic car for a reason, you just can't sell it in the rest of the world, the few you see over here are just so out of place and so badly equipped to cope, the US will big them up like Clarkson does the Jags and Astons, flag waving, nothing more.

Corvette is a "domestic" car too. You need to spend twice it's price to get a car that competes. Time to wake up and acknowledge the fact that there are now some cool cars coming from the US

[Dave2011M3]

For those of you who keep bringing up the Motortrend test between the E92 M3 and the 2011 5.0 GT have to keep in mind that the M3 used in that test had the Continental Tires on the car, which is hugely inferior to the Mich. PS2 that Motortrend tested the car on before. In fact in the article they noticed and mentioned that skidpad, slalom as well as braking numbers were off from their previous test of a E92 M3 without the comp package but it had Mich PS2's.

The Mustang on the other hand had the max performance summer Pirelli PZero tires that come with the Brembo brake package, a tire that is also available for the M3. I wish they tested the cars with the same tires as these are great dry tires. I had a set of these on my Porsche 997S.

Also, in the Lightning lap of America the M3 was almost 4 sec. faster than the Brembo equipped Mustang.

I'm not bashing the Mustang, I love Mustangs and I can seriously consider the new Mustang a worthy replacement for my 2013 M3 if I decide to sell at the end of the lease.

I did cross shop a Mustang with the M3 as my finances were tight at the time, I still boned up for the M3, so I put my money where my mouth is.

Ford is making huge strides in the interior department as well, I just bought my wife a new Ford Escape Titanium. The interior is very nice, and well put together. I think My Ford Touch is a mess, and I can't believe I am saying on how much I miss iDrive over the My Ford Touch.

I see the new Mustang has this and I hope they clean up the interface, which looks like they didn't, and really simplify this.

Also, keep in mind you are not seeing production Mustangs. You are seeing pre-production models as the new Mustang won't be out for almost another year.

I don't want a FI car for my road car, love normally aspirated. The new Mustang with what basically now has the older Boss 302 engine should be in the 440hp range. Ford didn't mention actual power numbers only more than 420 (which is what the garden variety 5.0L Coyote motor produces). This car will weight as much as the new M4 with as much if not more horsepower and equal torque but normally aspirated...a winner in my book.

Dave

[ign335i]

It all comes down to how much headroom they put into the m4s turbos. Everyones going to run a tune on them so compare that output versus the Mustang GT to draw conclusions. That being said BMW is obviously going away from drivers focused cars, so with Ford going more drivers focused I think stock for stock the Mustang will be very close or maybe even a better package.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by catpat8000

I don't agree. The 2011 Mustang was compared against the 2011 M3 on the track by one of the publications and it was an extremely close comparison.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

The 2015 Mustang will have an IRS, more than 420 hp (power numbers not yet announced), and will weigh significantly less than the outgoing model, just like the M3. I'd say it's a very good comparison.

Pat

Yes, have to agree. The problem as many of us have been saying is that BMW botched it by making such a heavy luxo M3. The key stat mentioned here is that basically the M3 weighed as much as Detroit iron! That should've never happened in the first place. The new M4 will have some carbon bits and will weigh much less which will help but people will load them up with all the luxo crap negating some of the benefit. As much as the E90 M3 motor was a work of art BMW lost their way but they only have their customers to blame who 90% of the time demand fully loaded, electronic suspensions, folding mirrors, etc etc. The fact is that Mustang is catching up. The Ford still has the cheap interior bits, but looking at my E46, then the E90 and now the F30, F80 generation, they are getting cheaper, more brittle and shiny and rattly than the E46 which was not perfect either.

We can be real BMW fans without burying our head in the sand and coming up with excuses for BMW. This competition IS HEALTHY and will hopefully push BMW to soul search and give us more cars like the 1M.


Even the M235i which looked promising will now come with Active Suspension standard for US! If we wanted the lightest, firmest suspension, BMW USA will not let us have it here without having to yank it out and put coilovers.

If you guys want world class beating cars stop bloating your cars with garbage and make performance a higher priority than folding mirrors!

[alep85]

The fact that this Mustang (at a fraction of the price of an M3/M4) is being seriously considered as somewhat of a bargain competitor to the M3/M4 says a lot about how far Ford has come in recent years.

[imported_mega]

my n54 has left such a sour taste in my mouth, on top of that a TERRIBLE dealer here (fayetteville NC) I think I'm leaving bmw for this new mustang

if it drives like a proper performance car I'll probably own it as soon as the initial rush dies down

if it drives like the previous generation mustang I'm not interested

[drummer]

I don't see how a dinosaur like the mustang can ever hold a candle to a 911 or any M series BMW. american car builders are more concerned about flash,muscle and straight line drag racing. BMW and Porsche are a moving network of science and technology and epitomize the definition of a true sports car,and will still out drag the Pony on any track or street race. Ford needs to scrap the whole pony idea and build a true sports car..

[Dave2011M3]

Originally Posted by drummer

I don't see how a dinosaur like the mustang can ever hold a candle to a 911 or any M series BMW. american car builders are more concerned about flash,muscle and straight line drag racing. BMW and Porsche are a moving network of science and technology and epitomize the definition of a true sports car,and will still out drag the Pony on any track or street race. Ford needs to scrap the whole pony idea and build a true sports car..

How is the new Mustang a dinosaur? Has your head been in the sand the last few years. Have you seen the times US made cars have been putting down at the Nurburgring?

Ford did build a true sports car, it was called the Ford GT.

[conradb]

Originally Posted by drummer

I don't see how a dinosaur like the mustang can ever hold a candle to a 911 or any M series BMW. american car builders are more concerned about flash,muscle and straight line drag racing. BMW and Porsche are a moving network of science and technology and epitomize the definition of a true sports car,and will still out drag the Pony on any track or street race. Ford needs to scrap the whole pony idea and build a true sports car..

More derp to add to the pile.

God I'm going to laugh so hard when the new S550 Mustang beats the F8x M3/M4 Nurburgring times OEM.

[Kayani_1]

Sorry to hear of your bad experience but I love my N54 one of the best inline-6 turbo engines to come from BMW to date. Others are still trying to catch up with it in stock form. Throw in a tune and the engine gives you so much more for so little expense. On top of it the N54 sounds pretty good for a turbo engine. There was a reason it was picked for duty in an M car.

Originally Posted by imported_mega

my n54 has left such a sour taste in my mouth, on top of that a TERRIBLE dealer here (fayetteville NC) I think I'm leaving bmw for this new mustang

if it drives like a proper performance car I'll probably own it as soon as the initial rush dies down

if it drives like the previous generation mustang I'm not interested

[Ashley Schaeffer BMW]

Originally Posted by drummer

I don't see how a dinosaur like the mustang can ever hold a candle to a 911 or any M series BMW. american car builders are more concerned about flash,muscle and straight line drag racing. BMW and Porsche are a moving network of science and technology and epitomize the definition of a true sports car,and will still out drag the Pony on any track or street race. Ford needs to scrap the whole pony idea and build a true sports car..

BMW makes true sports cars?? Since when?

If BMW keeps up their cost cutting ways and keeps alienating their enthusiast market they will be the ones left in the dust by American car makers.

[K19BMW]

Originally Posted by drummer

I don't see how a dinosaur like the mustang can ever hold a candle to a 911 or any M series BMW. american car builders are more concerned about flash,muscle and straight line drag racing. BMW and Porsche are a moving network of science and technology and epitomize the definition of a true sports car,and will still out drag the Pony on any track or street race. Ford needs to scrap the whole pony idea and build a true sports car..

Ford needs to build a true sports car huh? Its called the Ford GT, and i would take it over ANY so called "true sports car" that bmw has made ever. And im not even a ford fan.

[yemski]

Originally Posted by drummer

I don't see how a dinosaur like the mustang can ever hold a candle to a 911 or any M series BMW. american car builders are more concerned about flash,muscle and straight line drag racing. BMW and Porsche are a moving network of science and technology and epitomize the definition of a true sports car,and will still out drag the Pony on any track or street race. Ford needs to scrap the whole pony idea and build a true sports car..

lol I wish people would do a little bit of research before making erroneous blanket statements like the one above.
I personally am not a fan of muscle cars/American cars but you need to give credit where credit is due. American cars have made huge strides in terms of handling (they always had power) while BMW is starting to make more and more big, heavy cars that handle poorly compared to their direct competitors.
Hopefully this will light a fire under BMW to not forget about their roots (E30 M3), while I understand SAV's and other bloatmobiles are necessary for BMW's bread and butter, I'm hoping they continue to build what they were once known for, small sport cars with sublime handling and balance.
Anxiously awaiting the M2 and M235i Racing...

[Gastoys]

I looked at the California edition 2013 Mustang GT before I purchased my F30 335i. The mustang was super cheap inside with fake plastic carbon fiber, why not offer real carbon fiber for say $800 more. The gaps between body/door panels was too much and really made the car appear cheap. The only thing I liked about the Mustang was the interior/exterior looks and that ferocious V8! The driving experience was horrible, did not even finish test drive, took it back after the first corner.

For $40k the mustang interior looked like a $20k car.

I passed. The Camaro however I found to be far superior in regards to handling, but it too was super cheap looking interior.

Good to see Ford keeping the Mustang alive and venturing into the European market.

[TOX1C]

Originally Posted by Dave2011M3

For those of you who keep bringing up the Motortrend test between the E92 M3 and the 2011 5.0 GT have to keep in mind that the M3 used in that test had the Continental Tires on the car, which is hugely inferior to the Mich. PS2 that Motortrend tested the car on before. In fact in the article they noticed and mentioned that skidpad, slalom as well as braking numbers were off from their previous test of a E92 M3 without the comp package but it had Mich PS2's.

The Mustang on the other hand had the max performance summer Pirelli PZero tires that come with the Brembo brake package, a tire that is also available for the M3. I wish they tested the cars with the same tires as these are great dry tires. I had a set of these on my Porsche 997S.

Also, in the Lightning lap of America the M3 was almost 4 sec. faster than the Brembo equipped Mustang.

I'm not bashing the Mustang, I love Mustangs and I can seriously consider the new Mustang a worthy replacement for my 2013 M3 if I decide to sell at the end of the lease.

I did cross shop a Mustang with the M3 as my finances were tight at the time, I still boned up for the M3, so I put my money where my mouth is.

Ford is making huge strides in the interior department as well, I just bought my wife a new Ford Escape Titanium. The interior is very nice, and well put together. I think My Ford Touch is a mess, and I can't believe I am saying on how much I miss iDrive over the My Ford Touch.

I see the new Mustang has this and I hope they clean up the interface, which looks like they didn't, and really simplify this.

Also, keep in mind you are not seeing production Mustangs. You are seeing pre-production models as the new Mustang won't be out for almost another year.

I don't want a FI car for my road car, love normally aspirated. The new Mustang with what basically now has the older Boss 302 engine should be in the 440hp range. Ford didn't mention actual power numbers only more than 420 (which is what the garden variety 5.0L Coyote motor produces). This car will weight as much as the new M4 with as much if not more horsepower and equal torque but normally aspirated...a winner in my book.

Dave

+1

The thing that separated American cars vs European cars is the interior plus handling. Ford is addressing both issues, now I can only wonder what the results are.

Drove a GT500 and I loved everything about it mechanically. The big thing I hated was the cheap-o interior. Too much plastic and the seats were absolutely horrible. I absolutely loved the clunk in the gear shifter though

[E92M356789]

While it looks catchy and sleeker, I'm not sure why mustang used a 911 and an m3 as a benchmark. They have changed the history of what a mustang is known for. If anything, ford should've introduced a new vehicle because now they are trying to be in the European market and that could backfire. First of all, the current hardcore mustang fanatics already do not like European cars, so that's going against that. Then, there is the possibility of loosing those customers. Just my 2 cents.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by I am Earl

The fact that new M3 is not a drivers car changed the equation.

That's a pretty bold statement for someone who hasn't driven one yet

[Never Convicted]

I love this. You guys are so eager to believe everything some other manufacturer says at their word if it even mentions the new M3/4. Yes, I'm sure this new Moostang will be superior in every way to the BMW at half the price, because Ford...again, FORD...says it is. And the E9X M3 guys, you're embarrassing yourselves. Read the Mustang boards and see what those numb nuts are saying about your new dream car.

[Dave2011M3]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

I love this. You guys are so eager to believe everything some other manufacturer says at their word if it even mentions the new M3/4. Yes, I'm sure this new Moostang will be superior in every way to the BMW at half the price, because Ford...again, FORD...says it is. And the E9X M3 guys, you're embarrassing yourselves. Read the Mustang boards and see what those numb nuts are saying about your new dream car.

I don't know which board you are talking about, on the ones I am on such as svtperformance as well as themustangsource the consensus has generally been positive.

Are there the ones who hate the Euro look vs. the old fashioned S197 look, sure, just as there is on this board of F3X vs. E9X M3/4s.

Dave