2015 Mustang benchmarked against outgoing M3. Already trailing the upcoming M4?

[Justin*]

Originally Posted by Mike@VAC

Interesting. One of the guys at VAC worked at Americanmuscle.com ( huge mustang company) before joining us. He has been racing BMWs since he was a kid and he currently owns an e30M3 race car and e46 touring. He also races our shop e36 and e46 track cars. He has had our 620hp, Brembo and Nitron triple adjustable e92 on track a few times as well. Very good shoe.

So, when working at AM he took a new GT and Boss out on the track quite a few times. He maintains that a Mustang GT will absolutely hang with the e92M on a track assuming drivers are equal. He feels the Boss would def have a solid advantage. One guys opinion, but a credible one in my opinion.

The new Mustang should def have a nice advantage over the e9x M on track. M4? We will see!

Side note: the Boss302 has a 7500 rpm redline. With a tune many people are running them to 8200. The 302R has a factory 8400 rev limit. 11:1, 444 hp, 4 cam variable timing etc etc. Its an amazing and deadly reliable engine.

I can't wait to drive the new Mustang!

I agree with him. I've driven by buddies 2013 Boss with the red key. It is an awesome car. The current M cars don't have anything for it in terms of performance. It only cost $42k too. I like the feel and cockpit lay out so much better in the BMW's though. They feel more confident even though they aren't. It is so difficult to explain. I know that makes me seem like such a blind fan boy. I want a Boss and an e90 M3 among other cars too. I'll likely end up with a four door M something though next as I'm really starting to dig kicking peoples butt with a four door.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Justin*

I'll likely end up with a four door M something though next as I'm really starting to dig kicking peoples butt with a four door.

the 4 door phases lasted about 5 mins with me. they i realized how much better better looking coupes are in general. ( of course there are some cars that look great in sedan)

[Phaeron]

Originally Posted by basscadet

Ok, I have owned both an E92 335i and a 5.0 Mustang GT and there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY the 335is can keep up with the 5.0 GT with the same driver and track conditions. I don't care what some bullshit magazine said, it's not happening. The Mustang GT is an even match for the M3, some incredibly minor suspension mods put it before the M3. And the Boss 302 is on a whole other level as it runs with Corvettes not M3's.

This is the second piece of horribly wrong information you've foisted upon this thread. The BMWs are great cars, you don't need to make up BS about them to prove a point.

I have never seen such delusional garbage. The Boss 302 is outclassed by the Camaro 1LE. It does not run with corvettes and i dont care if you owned both. you obviously are a liar and wouldn't be able to track either car. The sad part is you can watch the GT's laptime. The 5.0 was made for straightline as even the track pack is a joke.

Those Brembo brakes suck and the rear brakes are never touched so the car nose dives everytime you hit the brakes with the track pack.

[Phaeron]

Originally Posted by Mike@VAC

Interesting. One of the guys at VAC worked at Americanmuscle.com ( huge mustang company) before joining us. He has been racing BMWs since he was a kid and he currently owns an e30M3 race car and e46 touring. He also races our shop e36 and e46 track cars. He has had our 620hp, Brembo and Nitron triple adjustable e92 on track a few times as well. Very good shoe.

So, when working at AM he took a new GT and Boss out on the track quite a few times. He maintains that a Mustang GT will absolutely hang with the e92M on a track assuming drivers are equal. He feels the Boss would def have a solid advantage. One guys opinion, but a credible one in my opinion.

The new Mustang should def have a nice advantage over the e9x M on track. M4? We will see!

Side note: the Boss302 has a 7500 rpm redline. With a tune many people are running them to 8200. The 302R has a factory 8400 rev limit. 11:1, 444 hp, 4 cam variable timing etc etc. Its an amazing and deadly reliable engine.

I can't wait to drive the new Mustang!

The Boss 302 has beaten the E92 M3. The Mustang GT however could only do well on a short track where the M3 struggles due to its high revving engine. So if your friend races ask him what kind of track because anyone who races and is honest will tell you that while a car can dominate one track does not mean they can dominate all. If i remember correctly the GT did well on a 2.3 mile track but flops on a 4.10 mile vs the M3. The M3 is going to struggle against the GT on small tracks because the low end torque allows the Mustang to keep up and or go faster. On a Larger track the M3 super suspension will allow it to stay with in its power band and bled less speed where it is faster in the corners.

Another good car that is a great example of this is the RS5. On small tracks that car sucks but get it on a big track and it smoke an M3. Infact all it needs to cure its understeer issues is a bigger rear sway bar....

What is interesting is most who track find the 302 annoying because the way the transmission is geared. you are constantly shifting while with a GT you can reach 70 in second gear if it doesnt have the track pack. The Track Pack is terrible due to gear ratios which i will allow Motortrend to get into.




Sad thing is why would your waste money on a Mustang when a 1LE or a ZL1 will annihilate all of them.

[vladberca]

It's funny that nobody driven the M4 yet, but many claim that it will not be so good on track, too expensive, etc. We will see, especially I'm curious about the CP version

[Brian_VACsales]

Phaeron - we use the Thunderbolt circuit at NJMP (our local track) mostly. There are no what-ifs, he had proper seat time in both and he knows what it takes to get a car around a track. Most of the tracks we frequent are in the 2.x mile range.



Also, it goes without saying that the M4 will be faster in every scenario than the E9x.

[n4speed]

job-hopping designer from VOLVO？
LOL

[DASHOCKER]

bad ass..

[Muffnbluff]

The next gen Mustang will be a great performance bargain, I don't care what car you own, you have to admit that. As I've said a million times before, there is a lot more to a car than numbers. Plenty of "slow" cars I'd rather drive than fast numbers cars. Personally, I did not like the old/current mustang at all. I'll keep an open mind with the new one, will definitely give it a test drive.

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by DASHOCKER

bad ass..

Sounds like the Devil. Love it.

[WilliCO]

The new GT is really sharp looking.

The current GT drives like a tractor.

Ford has cars that don't, so I think they engineered that rough-edgedness into the 'Stang on purpose.

If it's still there in the new version, I'm not interested.

[Ash83]

M3/4 will kill it but lets hope BMW will realise the big mistake of dropping down the V8 to the TriTurbo I6

[Dave2011M3]

Originally Posted by Ash83

M3/4 will kill it but lets hope BMW will realise the big mistake of dropping down the V8 to the TriTurbo I6

You are so misinformed, the S55 engine will not have a TriTurbo. Also, how will the M3/M4 kill the new Mustang when neither the M3/4 nor the 2015 Mustang are even in production yet?

The Mustang will make more hp than the M3/M4 weigh just as much and have more torque. If anything it sounds like more of a drivers race to me.

The fanbois are coming out of the wood work..

Do agree that BMW made a mistake dropping the V8 though.

Dave

[hangover]

BMW lost me when they started "piping in sound". The 2015 5.0 Mustang will have 500hp and sound like it. Nothing fake about it.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by WJGreer

The current GT drives like a tractor. Ford has cars that don't, so I think they engineered that rough-edgedness into the 'Stang on purpose.

Yes. They accomplished that by simply taking that rear axle off said tractor and fitting it under the car instead.

Thankfully the new one ditches the tractor suspension, so it should drive more like a car now.

[Justin*]

Originally Posted by DASHOCKER

bad ass..

Sounds great! Then again, mustangs always do. The v8 ones anyway.

[Ezio]

^ i feel like i just saw the mustang come out. now its already on youtube video. geez ford does things fast!

[PawnStar]

Don't know about M4 competitor, but the GT 5.0 will piss on the 435i...and all for like 30k...go USA!


I'll take mine in black, manual, black 19s, brembos and recaros...yeah, now I'm really ballin' at around 35k!

Correction, those black wheels in the video are 20s...I'm in all the way!

[Kayani_1]

I am not so sure why people keep comparing it to M3/M4 when it is in the price range of a non existent 420i with a detuned 4 cylinder engine. Even a 428i is more expensive.....lol.

I mean to keep things in perceptive if a BMW 420i did exist the performance wise a Mustang 5.0 would eat its lunch and not even burp. Yes, the BMW fit and finish, luxury, and prestige might be missing but the performance wise hands down Ford has an ace up its sleeve. Not to mention for a long term ownership it is much cheaper to maintain 2015 Mustang then a 2014 BMW 4 series.

As for the 428i even that is more expensive then a new 2015 5.0 GT. A $60K 435i M-sport will cost wise be more expensive then a Boss version if Mustang makes it or even the Shelby 600hp plus version.

The American car makers are making a come back with one strong product after another. The interiors are improving and fit and finish improving also. They are still not at German level but they are closing the gap. Overall huge leaps and bounds over what was offered before and what is offered now.

I know there is nothing in current newer generation BMW lineup that causes me half as much excitement as a Corvette C7 stingray. In fact forget BMW no German or Italian car maker has an answer for it at that price point. Go USA

Originally Posted by PawnStar

Don't know about M4 competitor, but the GT 5.0 will piss on the 435i...and all for like 30k...go USA!


I'll take mine in black, manual, black 19s, brembos and recaros...yeah, now I'm really ballin' at around 35k!

Correction, those black wheels in the video are 20s...I'm in all the way!

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

I am not so sure why people keep comparing it to M3/M4 when it is in the price range of a non existent 420i with a detuned 4 cylinder engine. Even a 428i is more expensive.....lol.

I mean to keep things in perceptive if a BMW 420i did exist the performance wise a Mustang 5.0 would eat its lunch and not even burp. Yes, the BMW fit and finish, luxury, and prestige might be missing but the performance wise hands down Ford has an ace up its sleeve. Not to mention for a long term ownership it is much cheaper to maintain 2015 Mustang then a 2014 BMW 4 series.

As for the 428i even that is more expensive then a new 2015 5.0 GT. A $60K 435i M-sport will cost wise be more expensive then a Boss version if Mustang makes it or even the Shelby 600hp plus version.

The American car makers are making a come back with one strong product after another. The interiors are improving and fit and finish improving also. They are still not at German level but they are closing the gap. Overall huge leaps and bounds over what was offered before and what is offered now.

I know there is nothing in current newer generation BMW lineup that causes me half as much excitement as a Corvette C7 stingray. In fact forget BMW no German or Italian car maker has an answer for it at that price point. Go USA

I get the price comparison, and Ford has understandably sold a lot of Mustangs because some car magazine called it "America's M3." I'll tell you, though, based on the current Mustang version, if you drive a GT and an M3 - or even a 435 - back to back, you'll see that it's about more than speed. The Mustang is loud, it's raucous, and it feels primitive. It rattles, the plastic is flat and hard, and the visibility sucks.

I think the Mustang is a lot of car for the money, but I don't compare one directly to a BMW. They are different things.

[Kayani_1]

To compare the all new Mustang to the older Mustang is not completely fair. As it seems like the new interior is much better design then the previous one. The fit and finish is yet to be seen but design is improved. I am sure the new one also offers greater refinement then the last generation one. Is it at BMW level well?......probably not.......but then no one should expect it to be at that level for nearly half the priced $60K vs $30K.

As for BMW the quality of materials used has gone down 435i vs 335i. The quality of product and finish is a actually a step back with more harder plaskticky use in the newer version. If you look at the interiors design wise...then minus the tack on NAV screen on top of the dash of 435i vs the 335i more integrated NAV screen. The rest of 4 series design is improvement.


To keep things in perspective unless one is a dash stroker a 1/3rd in price should not offer nearly double the performance. As will be the case with Mustang vs BMW 4 series comparison below:

2015 Mustang 5.0 GT 400hp vs 2014 BMW 428i 240hp
or
2015 Shelby GT500 660hp vs 2015 BMW 435i 300hp


Now with better interiors in the Mustang for its price and performance buying a BMW 4 series looks like a exercise in badge worship.

Originally Posted by WJGreer

I get the price comparison, and Ford has understandably sold a lot of Mustangs because some car magazine called it "America's M3." I'll tell you, though, based on the current Mustang version, if you drive a GT and an M3 - or even a 435 - back to back, you'll see that it's about more than speed. The Mustang is loud, it's raucous, and it feels primitive. It rattles, the plastic is flat and hard, and the visibility sucks.

I think the Mustang is a lot of car for the money, but I don't compare one directly to a BMW. They are different things.

[Xpander]

I see a lot of comments on superior fit and finish of German cars as if that's the only thing driving up prices of the BMWs. I agree to some extent but honestly most of these car companies use the same handful of plastic/mold suppliers anyways so it is not as obvious anymore. Welcome to globalization.

One thing to point out is that the German work force is very expensive. Every single smiling blond Germany guy you see working on the production lines in YouTube videos is fully insured, has salary high enough to be able to afford several weeks of vacation abroad, and gets six weeks paid vacation per year. So guess who is paying for all that?

Anyways...

The new mustang is going to be one hell of a car however we try to massage it.

Cheers