S55 vs. S65

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I'm going to laugh my ass off if this S55 engine becomes adored. People were fairly resistant to BMW going to the V8 too, and people were writing it off long before they were able to drive it because it wasn't an I6.

I see few people writing it off. The N54 was pretty much universally hailed by the press and owners from the get go. It was called things as wunder motor etc. The S55 has a far tougher task partly due to that it's a decade or so after the N54 which has already been tuned to crazy levels and much of the novelty and thunder of this particular engine type has already been stolen. And then there is the elephant in the room, the S65. It's not easy to satisfy the hordes of fans of this engine with a six cylinder FI engine. It's just so different, not neccesarily worse or less impressive but different.

I still think and hope the S55 will be very well liked by the majority even us that hold a special place for engines like the S65 in our heart where no FI engines can enter.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by aus

There is also NO WAY an I6 will sound as good as a V8, no matter what exhaust you put on it.

The I6 in the E46 M3 sounds MUCH better than a cross plane V8! A flat plane Ferrari V8 sounds better than the E46 M3 though, but only slightly

To say that a V8 sounds better than an I6 is just like saying Rock is better than Country or Classical Music etc. It comes down to personal preferences, cultural references etc etc...

To you a V8 sounds better, to me a I6 sounds better

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

A sports car, by definition is a 2 seater. M3 coupe, 1M, etc, are all 2+2

So is 991. Not a sports car though?

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by Boss330

The I6 in the E46 M3 sounds MUCH better than a cross plane V8! A flat plane Ferrari V8 sounds better than the E46 M3 though, but only slightly

To say that a V8 sounds better than an I6 is just like saying Rock is better than Country or Classical Music etc. It comes down to personal preferences, cultural references etc etc...

To you a V8 sounds better, to me a I6 sounds better

Have you driven both? I feel they sound really similar. Must be an m3 thing.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by solstice

I see few people writing it off.

I see and have seen plenty who do solstice. Maybe not necessarily all located in this thread, but there are many threads that have surfaced where conjecture is being confused and accepted as fact.

Originally Posted by solstice

The N54 was pretty much universally hailed by the press and owners from the get go. It was called things as wunder motor etc. The S55 has a far tougher task partly due to that it's a decade or so after the N54 which has already been tuned to crazy levels and much of the novelty and thunder of this particular engine type has already been stolen.

I see some validity there, but the arguments for or against the S55 aren't solely of the 'been there, done that' variety.

Originally Posted by solstice

And then there is the elephant in the room, the S65. It's not easy to satisfy the hordes of fans of this engine with a six cylinder FI engine. It's just so different, not neccesarily worse or less impressive but different.

Elephant it is.

Originally Posted by solstice

I still think and hope the S55 will be very well liked by the majority even us that hold a special place for engines like the S65 in our heart where no FI engines can enter.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Boss330

The I6 in the E46 M3 sounds MUCH better than a cross plane V8! A flat plane Ferrari V8 sounds better than the E46 M3 though, but only slightly

To say that a V8 sounds better than an I6 is just like saying Rock is better than Country or Classical Music etc. It comes down to personal preferences, cultural references etc etc...

To you a V8 sounds better, to me a I6 sounds better

Agree 100% with the juxtapositions drawn!

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Boss330

The I6 in the E46 M3 sounds MUCH better than a cross plane V8! A flat plane Ferrari V8 sounds better than the E46 M3 though, but only slightly

To say that a V8 sounds better than an I6 is just like saying Rock is better than Country or Classical Music etc. It comes down to personal preferences, cultural references etc etc...

To you a V8 sounds better, to me a I6 sounds better

i predict the E46 M3 will sound better than the F80. N/A high revving I6 FTW.

thoughts ?

[BMW M3 CRT]

The poll results must be an surprice for BMW ... that so many fan would spend ~ 7.500-10.000€ to get the "old" engine in their new car !!!

It would be nice to have such an option by BMW Individual ... an engine swap by an tuner like Manhart has never the same fascination than geht it Form the factory.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT

The poll results must be an surprice for BMW ... that so many fan would spend ~ 7.500-10.000€ to get the "old" engine in their new car !!!

It would be nice to have such an option by BMW Individual ... an engine swap by an tuner like Manhart has never the same fascination than geht it Form the factory.

I'm pretty sure BMW anticipates some resistance from the die hard fans that are on forums like these. Just like they encountered when they went the V8 route with the E9x...

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT

The poll results must be an surprice for BMW ... that so many fan would spend ~ 7.500-10.000€ to get the "old" engine in their new car !!!

It would be nice to have such an option by BMW Individual ... an engine swap by an tuner like Manhart has never the same fascination than geht it Form the factory.

Let's revisit this poll in 2 or 3 years. This same poll in 2006/2007 would have people voting in favor of the S54 rather than the S65 (..that they hadn't even driven yet).

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Let's revisit this poll in 2 or 3 years. This same poll in 2006/2007 would have people voting in favor of the S54 rather than the S65 (..that they hadn't even driven yet).

while you may be right.

i know for me there is no way i am going to like the engine more than my S65. the car could perform insanely well and i would still like the S65 more. even if i buy a M4 i will never like the S55 as much! although i may start to "like" the S55 in time.

the S65 is a legend of a motor. never will they make one like it again. never... nothing to do with it being a V8 vs V6/I6 thing either.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by Ezio

i predict the E46 M3 will sound better than the F80. N/A high revving I6 FTW.

thoughts ?

So far from what I have heard the F80 is not even in the same league as the E46 M3 in terms of sound. It has no induction noise. Its just exhaust noise (and a weird one at that).

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

So far from what I have heard the F80 is not even in the same league as the E46 M3 in terms of sound. It has no induction noise. Its just exhaust noise (and a weird one at that).

yup i like said. the E46 had the individual throttle bodies like the E90 had. made great induction sounds STOCK. not to mention n/a engine already makes the engine more vocal.

the f80 while being a I6 will made many people happy like BOSS. its not going to be the animal the E46 was! in terms of sound and engine character

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Ezio

while you may be right.

i know for me there is no way i am going to like the engine more than my S65. the car could perform insanely well and i would still like the S65 more. even if i buy a M4 i will never like the S55 as much! although i may start to "like" the S55 in time.

the S65 is a legend of a motor. never will they make one like it again. never... nothing to do with it being a V8 vs V6/I6 thing either.

That's a strange thing to say... Just like saying that you will never like a new flavour of Mountain Dew better than the current one, before you have tasted it...

They also said during the 70'ies and 80'ies that we would never see cars and engines like we did during the muscle car era in the late '60ies.

I remember reading an interview in Hot Rod With carrol Shelby in the '80ies when he was doing the Chrysler FWD turbo cars. He was asked about the possibilities of doing a new Cobra. His response was that those days had gone and that we would never see such cars again. A few years later Chrysler launched the Viper and Shelby got involved in HP Mustangs again...

History shows us that the one thing you shouldn't underestimate is the future...

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Boss330

That's a strange thing to say... Just like saying that you will never like a new flavour of Mountain Dew better than the current one, before you have tasted it...

They also said during the 70'ies and 80'ies that we would never see cars and engines like we did during the muscle car era in the late '60ies.

I remember reading an interview in Hot Rod With carrol Shelby in the '80ies when he was doing the Chrysler FWD turbo cars. He was asked about the possibilities of doing a new Cobra. His response was that those days had gone and that we would never see such cars again. A few years later Chrysler launched the Viper and Shelby got involved in HP Mustangs again...

History shows us that the one thing you shouldn't underestimate is the future...

well like i have been saying fundamentally i am not a fan of the Inline 6 engine. just like how you do not like cross plane V8 engines. but at the end of the day i will be open minded to the new S55. be honest do you like the new corvette? i know you havent driven it yet. could you drive(own) a car with a big "lazy" v8 ?

they still make big V8 motors today. but they are different from the old school engines. that wasn't my generation, but i know of people who still to this day like those old big blocks over the modern V8s. so as time goes on engines do change.

i don't feel we will see a engine like the S65 again. maybe we will see a V8 again. but a high revving n/a v8. idk... its just to fuel thirsty. fuel is the problem. its not getting cheaper, and its not unlimited .

and it looks like most car companies are going FI now and ditching the N/A. maybe we have maxed out n/a motors in terms of getting the best MPG. even Ferrari is going FI. and we all know they love there n/a engines.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Ezio

yup i like said. the E46 had the individual throttle bodies like the E90 had. made great induction sounds STOCK. not to mention n/a engine already makes the engine more vocal.

the f80 while being a I6 will made many people happy like BOSS. its not going to be the animal the E46 was! in terms of sound and engine character

I believe the S55 has ITB's too dude. That much hasn't changed.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I believe the S55 has ITB's too dude. That much hasn't changed.

well then i guess those turbos do a great job of sucking the sound away.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Ezio

well then i guess those turbos do a great job of sucking the sound away.

That's the nature of a force induced car Ezio.



P.S. ITB's, in and of themselves, aren't really responsible for a aural pleasure. Motors and the sounds they make are a culmination of many things.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

That's the nature of a force induced car Ezio.



P.S. ITB's, in and of themselves, aren't really responsible for a aural pleasure. Motors and the sounds they make are a culmination of many things.

ya i realize that. although i feel the S65 and S85 have better than most in the stock induction. i thought maybe one of the big reasons were the ITBs. i knew it wasn't the sole reason though.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Ezio

ya i realize that. although i feel the S65 and S85 have better than most in the stock induction. i thought maybe one of the big reasons were the ITBs. i knew it wasn't the sole reason though.

I guess my point was that ITB's are pretty common on most higher end performance cars. It's not some BMW V-block exclusive. In retrospect though, the E36 ///M3's S52 I6 sounded great, and it didn't have ITB's.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I guess my point was that ITB's are pretty common on most higher end performance cars. It's not some BMW V-block exclusive. In retrospect though, the E36 ///M3's S52 I6 sounded great, and it didn't have ITB's.

surely you knew i knew that. about the ITBs. of course other companies use something of that nature. i am big on exotic motors.

i also understand you dont need ITBs to have a good sound. i think you give me less credit then i should have.

[Sapper_M3]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I guess my point was that ITB's are pretty common on most higher end performance cars. It's not some BMW V-block exclusive. In retrospect though, the E36 ///M3's S52 I6 sounded great, and it didn't have ITB's.

ITBs are "pretty common on most higher end performance cars"..?

EDIT: Added more length to the quotation. I didn't realize you even went as far as to say "most" higher end performance cars.