EXXEL Distributions
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in | Oil & Fluids | Servicing | TSB | Recalls

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-03-2019, 08:25 PM   #1
trey100
Colonel
trey100's Avatar
728
Rep
2,200
Posts

Drives: 2016 M3 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

1st gear judder 6MT

I know there are some older threads on this but wanted to check in to see if there is a consensus on what this may be.

I never had this issue but about 8 months ago, brought my car in for its 50k service and since I was having some random radio issues (in hindsight should have just ignored it as I'm sure now it has more to do with my IPhone/BMW Apps than anything else), I asked them to take a look. They updated my car's software as the "fix".

When I picked up my car I noticed upon take off a nasty judder that I hadn't noticed before as 1st gear engaged on roll out. I chalked it up to perhaps not releasing the clutch right or the new software effecting the clutch somehow. I drove home, and it seemed to get better but happened a few more times on the way home. Next day, no issues. Since then it has happened more often and now occurs each morning as I back out of my driveway and then move forward. Once going, car drives fine. At slow speeds I can put it in first and auto rev match picks up seamlessly. Sometimes I won't feel it the rest of the day. I assumed if it was something mechanical, it would happen all the time.

In any case, it's happening enough now that it is taking away from my joy of driving the car.

Does this sound like a clutch issue? I've been driving manuals my whole driving life and this is the first issue I've ever had so I'd like to think it's not that. Especially with others saying they've experienced similar issues. Could it have been the software change and can they change it back?

I plan on making an appointment with the dealership but my concern is it either won't happen when they test drive it and they'll send me home with just an investigation bill or they'll just default to replace the clutch and cost me a bunch of money. Someone else here had their clutch replaced under warranty as they were experiencing a similar issue and the clutch looked pretty good when they took it off.

Just some more info: have 54k miles and almost all is highway as I live in the suburbs and commute via highway each day. Very little city driving.

Any help is appreciated.
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2019, 05:47 PM   #2
Ravcik
New Member
Poland
2
Rep
12
Posts

Drives: 2015| M3 | Manual Transmission
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Poland, Silesia District

iTrader: (0)

Maybe Better way is to record this judder and share this video with dealer first ?
We have to diagnose this, can you record this for us ?
Appreciate 1
trey100727.50

      11-04-2019, 08:17 PM   #3
fackamato
Second Lieutenant
United_States
49
Rep
204
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2017 BMW M3  [0.00]
'17 M3 here, I think it's normal for these cars. Just give it a bit more gas or re-engage the clutch.
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2019, 11:08 PM   #4
trey100
Colonel
trey100's Avatar
728
Rep
2,200
Posts

Drives: 2016 M3 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fackamato View Post
'17 M3 here, I think it's normal for these cars. Just give it a bit more gas or re-engage the clutch.
As someone who has driven manuals for a very long time, this does not seem normal. It is very different than the stutter you get when you are about to stall. It is definitely a kidder even under gas. Very strange. All other gears and driving is flawless.
Appreciate 0
      11-05-2019, 07:47 AM   #5
trey100
Colonel
trey100's Avatar
728
Rep
2,200
Posts

Drives: 2016 M3 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Here's one of the original threads on this:


https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1359595
Appreciate 0
      11-05-2019, 10:26 AM   #6
NUTScapes
Brigadier General
NUTScapes's Avatar
United_States
6447
Rep
4,656
Posts

Drives: .
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

Mine still happens now and then. Not enough to bother me. I wouldn't say it's getting worse.
Appreciate 1
trey100727.50

      11-07-2019, 11:57 AM   #7
Alan l.
Major General
Alan l.'s Avatar
2702
Rep
7,043
Posts

Drives: 2018 Individual M3 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: United States

iTrader: (9)

my 18 only has the judder if i'm moving from standstill and do not give it enough revs. Not enough to stall but you can feel the clutch (pucks) barely catching. give it alittle more revs and its all smooth.

My old E46 use to have judders on initial engagement no matter what i did. Dealer ended up replacing the flywheel and clutch combo.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-07-2019, 08:28 PM   #8
trey100
Colonel
trey100's Avatar
728
Rep
2,200
Posts

Drives: 2016 M3 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan l. View Post
my 18 only has the judder if i'm moving from standstill and do not give it enough revs. Not enough to stall but you can feel the clutch (pucks) barely catching. give it alittle more revs and its all smooth.

My old E46 use to have judders on initial engagement no matter what i did. Dealer ended up replacing the flywheel and clutch combo.
The only thing that seems to be in conflict is that it doesn't seem to be on the brink of stalling as if you under gas it. True though that if I ride the clutch by gassing it more than needed, it helps.

The other part is that it doesn't do it all the time. When it is not juddering I can easily drive in traffic without ever touching the gas. Just letting out the clutch slowly and it catches pretty smooth. If it's a mechanical issue, why wouldn't it do it all the time?

To me it seems that something in the programming drops the throttle sometimes as it engages (more than typical). I keep thinking that the new software they put on during my last service reprogrammed the throttle sensitivity somehow.

I've been more generous with the throttle when I sense it happening and then driving more normal when it is not.

The car is so smooth in all other cases....ugh.
Appreciate 0
      11-07-2019, 10:00 PM   #9
NUTScapes
Brigadier General
NUTScapes's Avatar
United_States
6447
Rep
4,656
Posts

Drives: .
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan l. View Post
my 18 only has the judder if i'm moving from standstill and do not give it enough revs. Not enough to stall but you can feel the clutch (pucks) barely catching. give it alittle more revs and its all smooth.

My old E46 use to have judders on initial engagement no matter what i did. Dealer ended up replacing the flywheel and clutch combo.
The only thing that seems to be in conflict is that it doesn't seem to be on the brink of stalling as if you under gas it. True though that if I ride the clutch by gassing it more than needed, it helps.

The other part is that it doesn't do it all the time. When it is not juddering I can easily drive in traffic without ever touching the gas. Just letting out the clutch slowly and it catches pretty smooth. If it's a mechanical issue, why wouldn't it do it all the time?

To me it seems that something in the programming drops the throttle sometimes as it engages (more than typical). I keep thinking that the new software they put on during my last service reprogrammed the throttle sensitivity somehow.

I've been more generous with the throttle when I sense it happening and then driving more normal when it is not.

The car is so smooth in all other cases....ugh.
I think it might be a strange interaction between the hill hold and the auto throttle when you start to engage the clutch. I notice it happens mostly when I'm on an incline or doing parking lot maneuvers. Otherwise I don't notice it much at all.
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2019, 05:53 AM   #10
trey100
Colonel
trey100's Avatar
728
Rep
2,200
Posts

Drives: 2016 M3 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NUTScapes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan l. View Post
my 18 only has the judder if i'm moving from standstill and do not give it enough revs. Not enough to stall but you can feel the clutch (pucks) barely catching. give it alittle more revs and its all smooth.

My old E46 use to have judders on initial engagement no matter what i did. Dealer ended up replacing the flywheel and clutch combo.
The only thing that seems to be in conflict is that it doesn't seem to be on the brink of stalling as if you under gas it. True though that if I ride the clutch by gassing it more than needed, it helps.

The other part is that it doesn't do it all the time. When it is not juddering I can easily drive in traffic without ever touching the gas. Just letting out the clutch slowly and it catches pretty smooth. If it's a mechanical issue, why wouldn't it do it all the time?

To me it seems that something in the programming drops the throttle sometimes as it engages (more than typical). I keep thinking that the new software they put on during my last service reprogrammed the throttle sensitivity somehow.

I've been more generous with the throttle when I sense it happening and then driving more normal when it is not.

The car is so smooth in all other cases....ugh.
I think it might be a strange interaction between the hill hold and the auto throttle when you start to engage the clutch. I notice it happens mostly when I'm on an incline or doing parking lot maneuvers. Otherwise I don't notice it much at all.
Yes this is also true. I notice it backing out of my driveway and then moving forward into the street where there is a slight hill.
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2019, 02:54 PM   #11
9M4N71U
Private First Class
28
Rep
103
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 M3 | 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Can we turn off hill assist? Want to see it makes any difference.

'18 F80, 16k mi, also has a judder at times. I've found myself have to be a little bit more generous on the gas than compared to previous MTs.
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2019, 09:45 PM   #12
trey100
Colonel
trey100's Avatar
728
Rep
2,200
Posts

Drives: 2016 M3 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9M4N71U View Post
Can we turn off hill assist? Want to see it makes any difference.

'18 F80, 16k mi, also has a judder at times. I've found myself have to be a little bit more generous on the gas than compared to previous MTs.
Don't think so. I'm convinced this all started after a software update. The version that came on my March or so 2016 build did not have this all the way up to the day they updated my software. Noticed it the day I picked up the car from the dealership after the software update.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:04 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST