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      09-14-2018, 03:54 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
This rumor is pure bullshiit, why? Cause I saw in Buckhead (Atlanta, GA) on September 13, 2018 a new X5 (G05) with a 30 d (diesel) engine.

A picture is worth a thousand words.
You may have missed that the story was updated with comments from BMW stating they had not yet made a final decision on a X5 diesel in the US. So no, its not "pure bullshit" at all, and additionally, you may wish to adjust your tone.

Furthermore, the vehicle you photographed is not a US spec vehicle since it is an X5 30d model which had never been a candidate for US sales to begin with. A large percentage of SAVs built in South Carolina are for export. It's no surprise to see a non-US-spec test vehicle with SC plates like this out on US roads occasionally, especially on the east coast.
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      09-14-2018, 04:01 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
There is no way a Phev will beat a diesel on the highway. Actually the X5 40e is worst than the 35i on the highway. A gas engine need more fuel to produce the same power it's that simple.
You're not considering regenerative braking and the fact the battery will still partially power the vehicle at high speeds. The battery isn't completely unused on the highway.

Porsche Cayenne SEH owners are reporting over 30 MPGs of gasoline use on the highway. The Cayenne diesel returns 28
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      09-14-2018, 05:43 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
You may have missed that the story was updated with comments from BMW stating they had not yet made a final decision on a X5 diesel in the US. So no, its not "pure bullshit" at all, and additionally, you may wish to adjust your tone.

Furthermore, the vehicle you photographed is not a US spec vehicle since it is an X5 30d model which had never been a candidate for US sales to begin with. A large percentage of SAVs built in South Carolina are for export. It's no surprise to see a non-US-spec test vehicle with SC plates like this out on US roads occasionally, especially on the east coast.
Agree, it also doesn't have the ugly orange reflectors so 100% a euro spec X5
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      09-14-2018, 07:24 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
There is no way a Phev will beat a diesel on the highway. Actually the X5 40e is worst than the 35i on the highway. A gas engine need more fuel to produce the same power it's that simple.
You're not considering regenerative braking and the fact the battery will still partially power the vehicle at high speeds. The battery isn't completely unused on the highway.

Porsche Cayenne SEH owners are reporting over 30 MPGs of gasoline use on the highway. The Cayenne diesel returns 28
Well i did consider that. For the regenative braking if your going downhill probably you will end up going uphill at some point so you don't really "¬*gain¬*" energy. So let's imagine a scenario at a constant speed on the highway 70mph. If you want to have diesel like fuel economy you will need to compensate for the 25% disadvantage. So at 70mph you should need around 20kwh to maintain your speed in the X5 diesel and about 21kwh in the X5 40e(considering the heavier weight). So to keep fuel consumption at diesel level your ice will use 15kwh and you will use 6kwh from the battery. After 100 miles the battery(9.2kwh) will be dead. So therefore the ice will have to provide 21kwh and then your fuel consumption will be around 25-30% higher than the diesel X5. So for short trip on the highway maybe you can get diesel numbers but any long trip forget it.
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      09-14-2018, 10:27 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
Well i did consider that. For the regenative braking if your going downhill probably you will end up going uphill at some point so you don't really "¬*gain¬*" energy. So let's imagine a scenario at a constant speed on the highway 70mph. If you want to have diesel like fuel economy you will need to compensate for the 25% disadvantage. So at 70mph you should need around 20kwh to maintain your speed in the X5 diesel and about 21kwh in the X5 40e(considering the heavier weight). So to keep fuel consumption at diesel level your ice will use 15kwh and you will use 6kwh from the battery. After 100 miles the battery(9.2kwh) will be dead. So therefore the ice will have to provide 21kwh and then your fuel consumption will be around 25-30% higher than the diesel X5. So for short trip on the highway maybe you can get diesel numbers but any long trip forget it.

Compensate for 25% disadvantage? You're just making numbers up now. The fact is diesel SUVs are getting no more than 30 MPGs on the highway. Cayenne SEH owners are all reporting numbers north of 30 for highway driving.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/porsche/ca...otpedlr/341217

Your fuzzy math analysis is so flawed it's not even funny.
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      09-14-2018, 10:35 PM   #94
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
Well i did consider that. For the regenative braking if your going downhill probably you will end up going uphill at some point so you don't really "√ā*gain√ā*" energy. So let's imagine a scenario at a constant speed on the highway 70mph. If you want to have diesel like fuel economy you will need to compensate for the 25% disadvantage. So at 70mph you should need around 20kwh to maintain your speed in the X5 diesel and about 21kwh in the X5 40e(considering the heavier weight). So to keep fuel consumption at diesel level your ice will use 15kwh and you will use 6kwh from the battery. After 100 miles the battery(9.2kwh) will be dead. So therefore the ice will have to provide 21kwh and then your fuel consumption will be around 25-30% higher than the diesel X5. So for short trip on the highway maybe you can get diesel numbers but any long trip forget it.

Compensate for 25% disadvantage? You're just making numbers up now. The fact is diesel SUVs are getting no more than 30 MPGs on the highway. Cayenne SEH owners are all reporting numbers north of 30 for highway driving.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/porsche/ca...otpedlr/341217

Your fuuzy math analysis is so flawed it's not even funny.
As I said on short highway trip PHEV can get good number. As you seem to like fuelly you can compare X5 35i vs 35d generally in the high 11L/100kms vs low 9L/100kms for the diesel. There is your 25% disadvantage. For long highway trip there is no way a PHEV will get same numbers as a diesel.
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      09-15-2018, 12:20 AM   #95
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Diesel has 15% more energy per litre so it should have at least 15% less consumption. Typically a diesel version of the same car will have a lower diff ratio as well, combined with a more efficient engine design (no spark plugs and higher comp ratio) I'd expect 20-25% difference in fuel consumption would be about right.

Of course a PHEV might be able to match it for the first 100 or even 200 miles but at 500 miles the Diesel will always pull ahead.
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      09-15-2018, 08:01 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
Diesel has 15% more energy per litre so it should have at least 15% less consumption. Typically a diesel version of the same car will have a lower diff ratio as well, combined with a more efficient engine design (no spark plugs and higher comp ratio) I'd expect 20-25% difference in fuel consumption would be about right.

Of course a PHEV might be able to match it for the first 100 or even 200 miles but at 500 miles the Diesel will always pull ahead.
Add the difference in thermal efficiency between the diesel and gasoline ICE, and the real world findings (*) that a smaller gasoline ICE can even be less fuel efficient than a larger capacity ICE, the diesel will be more fuel efficient cruising any long distance. The smaller gasoline ICE has no chance, when the batteries are discharged and of little assistance in long distance cruising.

We have direct comparisons here in the UK for several model ranges. For example, the 330e (fully charged each night), can never compete for high mileage users, against the diesels of similar performance. The diesel is way ahead on fuel efficiency.

* Here in the UK, many smaller ICE installations have proven to be less efficient when cruising at highway speeds, than the same model with a larger capacity ICE. Total road load can be very similar. To the point manufacturers are questioning/debating the benefits of the smaller, more highly tuned engines. This doesn't help the PHEV case, when batteries are depleted.

PHEV has its place, but at present, efficiency for long distance use is questionable.
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      09-15-2018, 11:06 AM   #97
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Just as they limit production of less-popular models contrasted to others, there still is a demand.

This is from my 2014 535d on the highway.. No gas engine would ever compare..
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      09-15-2018, 12:50 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
This rumor is pure bullshiit, why? Cause I saw in Buckhead (Atlanta, GA) on September 13, 2018 a new X5 (G05) with a 30 d (diesel) engine.

A picture is worth a thousand words.
You may have missed that the story was updated with comments from BMW stating they had not yet made a final decision on a X5 diesel in the US. So no, its not "pure bullshit" at all, and additionally, you may wish to adjust your tone.

Furthermore, the vehicle you photographed is not a US spec vehicle since it is an X5 30d model which had never been a candidate for US sales to begin with. A large percentage of SAVs built in South Carolina are for export. It's no surprise to see a non-US-spec test vehicle with SC plates like this out on US roads occasionally, especially on the east coast.
BMW southeastern headquarters is located in Atlanta, GA. If this vehicle was photographed near the Greer/Spartanburg area, then it could be believed as a test prototype. This same vehicle has been confirmed to me to be driving around Buckhead for quite some time. These vehicles also will be on the West coast, so not limited to just New York, Greer and Atlanta.

BMW NA executives will drive US market vehicles prior to market release, as this has been told directly to me by these executives who drive these vehicles.

Regarding my tone, I'm sure that President Trump would have also stated the same, as unfortunately it's accepted language.
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      09-15-2018, 12:52 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdlooker View Post
Just as they limit production of less-popular models contrasted to others, there still is a demand.

This is from my 2014 535d on the highway.. No gas engine would ever compare..
Dam, compare that to my 2018 X5M which averages 14 mpg, as the range is sub 400 miles when the tank is filled up.
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      09-15-2018, 01:26 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
This rumor is pure bullshiit, why? Cause I saw in Buckhead (Atlanta, GA) on September 13, 2018 a new X5 (G05) with a 30 d (diesel) engine.

A picture is worth a thousand words.
A picture is indeed worth a thousand words. But these pictures show the Media vehicles that were used by the press when they were at the International media launch accompanied by journalists across the world recently at the Mandarin Oriental in Atlanta.

The media were there to drive the relevant models available for the new X5 Series. Amongst the US market models of the petrol engine variety. There was also the Diesels including the high performance M50d available to drive.

Because it's an international launch. The majority of markets of the X5 Series maintain the Diesel as the best selling model of that series that is why these models 30d and M50d are being shown in the US for media purpose only and not as respective inclusion to that particular market.
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      09-15-2018, 04:32 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdlooker View Post
Just as they limit production of less-popular models contrasted to others, there still is a demand.

This is from my 2014 535d on the highway.. No gas engine would ever compare..
I am missing a wagon in my life currently - thinking about an F11 535d or a G31 530d. So disappointed there isnít an RHD M550d and the Alpina D5 is only a G30.

One thing with diesel is that it doesnít seem to matter much if you get a 520d or a 535d for open road driving, the mpg only changes a small amount when compared to a 530i and 540i - at least in my experience
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      09-15-2018, 04:37 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Add the difference in thermal efficiency between the diesel and gasoline ICE, and the real world findings (*) that a smaller gasoline ICE can even be less fuel efficient than a larger capacity ICE, the diesel will be more fuel efficient cruising any long distance. The smaller gasoline ICE has no chance, when the batteries are discharged and of little assistance in long distance cruising.

We have direct comparisons here in the UK for several model ranges. For example, the 330e (fully charged each night), can never compete for high mileage users, against the diesels of similar performance. The diesel is way ahead on fuel efficiency.

* Here in the UK, many smaller ICE installations have proven to be less efficient when cruising at highway speeds, than the same model with a larger capacity ICE. Total road load can be very similar. To the point manufacturers are questioning/debating the benefits of the smaller, more highly tuned engines. This doesn't help the PHEV case, when batteries are depleted.

PHEV has its place, but at present, efficiency for long distance use is questionable.
I did just touch on this on my post above - I havenít found that to be the case. Iíve driven an F31 328i and F31 335i with engines both one gen old now but the difference was quite big on flat roads at a constant speed. About 20% difference in fact.

However from Napier to Taupo which has a large number of hills and some quite twisty bits there was a much smaller difference, about 10% and the 328i definitely needed to be pushed quite a bit harder.

The big thing here probably is that the 335i could drive up the hills and out of the corners with ease and not making a huge amount of boost, in turn keeping the AFR much closer to 14.7 for longer.

100% agree about the 330e and 530e being flawed. Mainly because of the 46l tank limiting range At least the X5 PHEV has a bigger fuel tank and larger capacity batteries. If you could physically fit that drivetrain into a 540e or 545e with a 60-70l tank itís be a great car

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      09-15-2018, 05:58 PM   #103
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Its still a possibility that BMW will sell diesel again if customers demand them and make a complaint to BMW USA.
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      09-15-2018, 06:03 PM   #104
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If they want to go the phev route they should use Diesel engine as ice. This way we would have the best of both world.
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      09-15-2018, 06:18 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
If they want to go the phev route they should use Diesel engine as ice. This way we would have the best of both world.
I used to think that was the way to go, diesel appeared to be the obvious choice for efficiency. But for a multitude of reasons, the diesel hasn't been the engine of choice from most manufacturers.

With the current backlash on diesel and the complexity of emission controls, can't see the diesel having much of a chance at this critical time in PHEV development. Diesel will have to cope a lot better with cold and intermittent running.
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      09-15-2018, 08:05 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
If they want to go the phev route they should use Diesel engine as ice. This way we would have the best of both world.
I used to think that was the way to go, diesel appeared to be the obvious choice for efficiency. But for a multitude of reasons, the diesel hasn't been the engine of choice from most manufacturers.

With the current backlash on diesel and the complexity of emission controls, can't see the diesel having much of a chance at this critical time in PHEV development. Diesel will have to cope a lot better with cold and intermittent running.
There use to be few diesel hybrid my guess is that since they emission control are getting stricter on diesel they rather go with a cheaper solution from gas engine. I would believe that any forced induction engine will have difficulty to cope with cold and intermittent running.
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      09-15-2018, 09:47 PM   #107
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My Tesla gets better mileage than a diesel...

It handles better, and is certainly faster, than most diesels...

I charge it nightly. No drama.


The future is electric. Get over it. Embrace the future!
Your Wisconsin Tesla burns coal and a little bit of renewable energy, but if you feel superior, more power to you.

-Michael
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      09-16-2018, 01:33 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdlooker View Post
Just as they limit production of less-popular models contrasted to others, there still is a demand.

This is from my 2014 535d on the highway.. No gas engine would ever compare..
Throwing my 4 Cents in along your comment...
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      09-16-2018, 02:25 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTookies View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdlooker View Post
Just as they limit production of less-popular models contrasted to others, there still is a demand.

This is from my 2014 535d on the highway.. No gas engine would ever compare..
Throwing my 4 Cents in along your comment...
I'm sure a phev will do even better . Diesel is the highway king
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      09-16-2018, 02:27 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTookies View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdlooker View Post
Just as they limit production of less-popular models contrasted to others, there still is a demand.

This is from my 2014 535d on the highway.. No gas engine would ever compare..
Throwing my 4 Cents in along your comment...
I'm sure a phev will do even better . Diesel is the highway king.
Contradicting yourself, or how should we take that statement?
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