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      12-09-2019, 10:49 PM   #221
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This is an incredible car, performance wise especially, but I won't own one because it's just not that attractive. There's something off about the proportions when you see one in person, the front end is great, but the side and the rear 3/4s of the car are too long. The rear is a massive fail. Saw several of these outside of the GM proving grounds when I was visiting Detroit a few weeks ago.

The C6Z was the last great looking Corvette. That car had it all except the interior quality. The C7Z failed to improve on the C6Z IMO.
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      12-10-2019, 12:17 AM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90335e36m3 View Post
This is an incredible car, performance wise especially, but I won't own one because it's just not that attractive. There's something off about the proportions when you see one in person, the front end is great, but the side and the rear 3/4s of the car are too long. The rear is a massive fail. Saw several of these outside of the GM proving grounds when I was visiting Detroit a few weeks ago.

The C6Z was the last great looking Corvette. That car had it all except the interior quality. The C7Z failed to improve on the C6Z IMO.
I am with you brother. The front of the car kind of has the vibe, but from the doors back it is awkward at best and the rear is butt ugly.

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Originally Posted by See5 View Post
This is silly.

He can own 4 dealerships and obviously still be plenty full of shit.

There is literally not one report to corroborate his claims of "underperformance" and there are plenty of people who have access to that type of information had it popped up. As for allocations, he better get his sales staff on the ball as there are plenty of stores out there with full order banks.
Do you comprehend what you are saying? Why would a guy whose livelihood depends on selling GM crap, verbally shyte on the GM crap he sells? This guy is a professional racer, into power boats and a straight up gear head enthusiast. He is not some little pin headed, nerdy business man that inherited some car dealerships.

You also selectively responded/quoted a portion of my post and ignored the rest which could address your corroboration theory. Has GM never once sent ringer/hot cars to press? WTF was up with the car they made Leno drive. Every time Leno tried to get on it, he had that face like a kid in the candy store with his hand getting swatted every time he reached for candy. But hey, the convertible top is cool!

Last edited by 996ttelise; 12-10-2019 at 12:37 AM..
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      12-10-2019, 12:31 AM   #223
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we are finally getting the corvette as an official import here in Aus

not so keen on the regular c8, but def interested in a z06/zr1 spec car - more power, higher rev limit, ceramics, possibly even the shorter rear end off the racecar i hope to sort the weird overhang
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      12-10-2019, 11:28 AM   #224
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FormulaMMM, we need a dick measuring or name dropping emoji.
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      12-10-2019, 11:30 AM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post
RE: Track Specs

So why not sell the car with suspension set up in this "track spec" suspension which seemingly made the car more stable (reduced both mid corner understeer and track out trailing throttle snap oversteer). Porsche and others deliver their cars with street suspension/toe settings to make their cars more stable for the road, not the opposite. Is it a tire wear issue for the Vette.
Safe to say that -3 front, -2.5 rear is a tire wear issue for any car driven on the street.

Why would they deliver the car in track spec? Is this range of adjustability a bad thing? Pobst reports "2 to 3 seconds faster with less fall-off and better grip on a long run" in track spec. I fail to see the problem or failure on Chevy's part.

You race Cup cars, so surely you know that a track-specific alignment is not ideal for street purposes and vice versa.



Your buddy who owns 4 dealerships and also races Cup cars -- did he say why he believes the Vette is short on power or specs?
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      12-10-2019, 11:44 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
FormulaMMM, we need a dick measuring or name dropping emoji.
Speaking of cars as extensions of manhood, is your 1LE making it out of the garage on the all seasons??

This is a GM friendly thread and mine, so we can deviate for a moment before learning more about why the new Vette actually sucks.
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      12-10-2019, 01:03 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Speaking of cars as extensions of manhood, is your 1LE making it out of the garage on the all seasons??

This is a GM friendly thread and mine, so we can deviate for a moment before learning more about why the new Vette actually sucks.
Yah, I've done the two oil and diff changes top get it fully broke in. Now it has 2600ish miles on it. I took it on a 8 hour round trip for a weekend with a friend. I gave him the choice of the Camaro (which, I really wanted to take) and my wife's M550. He said Camaro and was surprised just how bad the ride was to comical proportions as he put it. He tried to take a drink of his water bottle and we hit a bump which resulted in him having a 1/4 of the water bottle all over him. I did give him the choice.

I love the thing warts and all and drive it whenever I get the chance to. The LT4 is my favorite engine out of the Voodoo/S55 of which I've had previously. It doesn't rev to the moon, but it is linear like the N/A V8, but fast like the S55 when you want to be. The little bit of fun I've been able to have with it makes me really want to get to a track soon. The cornering is unreal and I'm not even on R comps or on a track alignment. The power is of course a lot of fun and I haven't been able to truly use it to its full potential yet.

The Pilot A/S 3s have been surprisingly good. Can still have some fun/hard pulls with them and they do relatively ok on snow and ice. I only drive it when it is dry or damp out, but my neighborhood is pretty secluded and our street with a decent hill always has snow/ice cover for the duration of the winter.

It hasn't burned any oil from what I can tell. Working on it is very easy for fluid changes (except the tranny is a bit harder due to space issues) and it hasn't had any issues except for some rattles. It is easily my favorite manual transmission in terms of feel etc.

I can definitely see this not being a lot of peoples type of car due to the well know visibility issues, cramped/chintzy/dated cabin parts (I still hate GM's running gear/switchgear). This thing does ride rough to and that is an understatement depending on the roads. Buit, it mostly is comparable to my ZCP lowered on HAS. It is a blast to drive like my GT350 was with more power/better suspension and so far no reliability issues.

Edit: I'm definitely over compensating as well.

Last edited by minn19; 12-10-2019 at 01:14 PM..
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      12-10-2019, 01:34 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
I took it on a 8 hour round trip for a weekend with a friend. I gave him the choice of the Camaro (which, I really wanted to take) and my wife's M550. He said Camaro and was surprised just how bad the ride was to comical proportions as he put it. He tried to take a drink of his water bottle and we hit a bump which resulted in him having a 1/4 of the water bottle all over him. I did give him the choice.
haha... bad to comical proportions sounds about right. Ride quality, restricted view, power, tires, I appreciate the track-focused Camaros because of just how absurd and anti-social they are. Hard to believe someone signed off on their production. Awesome that it's seeing some winter use.

This dude posts some great in car track content. He's fast, shows just how capable the 1LE is.

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      12-10-2019, 02:32 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
haha... bad to comical proportions sounds about right. Ride quality, restricted view, power, tires, I appreciate the track-focused Camaros because of just how absurd and anti-social they are. Hard to believe someone signed off on their production. Awesome that it's seeing some winter use.

This dude posts some great in car track content. He's fast, shows just how capable the 1LE is.

Thanks and agreed. I've seen that guy's videos and he can obviously drive. I'm not of that skill level, but I'd love to get there in this thing.
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      12-10-2019, 06:16 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Safe to say that -3 front, -2.5 rear is a tire wear issue for any car driven on the street.

Why would they deliver the car in track spec? Is this range of adjustability a bad thing? Pobst reports "2 to 3 seconds faster with less fall-off and better grip on a long run" in track spec. I fail to see the problem or failure on Chevy's part.

You race Cup cars, so surely you know that a track-specific alignment is not ideal for street purposes and vice versa.



Your buddy who owns 4 dealerships and also races Cup cars -- did he say why he believes the Vette is short on power or specs?
Nah, it was real strange what and how it said it. He threw it out there and then kind of back tracked and made some off handed comment about a few of the mags were saying that based on tests. I really didn't care at the time and I think we started talking about boats and kids . . . I actually went home and did a Google search for articles, but saw nothing. As stated I in my FIRST post about it, we shall soon see and they should get it sorted if there is an issue.

RE: Tires and Suspension Settings

Sure more neg camber will chew through tires, but the crux of my comment was different than the focus of your response. I thought it strange that the track setting made the car more stable, especially when the characteristics of the street/factory setting is bad mid-corner understeer followed by progressive trailing throttle oversteer. Street settings usually dial out the extreme characteristics, especially snap or progressively worse trailing throttle oversteer. I wonder if they also touched toe or if toe is neutral in track or street settings?

RE: 2/3 Seconds.

Were they on VIR Grand/Full? Those are pretty llloooonnngggggg.
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      12-10-2019, 06:21 PM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
FormulaMMM, we need a dick measuring or name dropping emoji.
Lol, great contribution saying more about you than me.

Did you see the Leno video though? It was pretty funny. Dude seemed pretty bored cruising the Vette though.
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      12-10-2019, 06:57 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post
Lol, great contribution saying more about you than me.

Did you see the Leno video though? It was pretty funny. Dude seemed pretty bored cruising the Vette though.
I havenít, not a big Leno fan or that his garage show. Nothing against him, just not my cup of tea.
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      12-10-2019, 09:56 PM   #233
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I havenít, not a big Leno fan or that his garage show. Nothing against him, just not my cup of tea.
I am not either. Someone on a C8 thread over on Rennlist posted it up. He drives the spyder.

The lead engineer for the C8 project is with him and really goes into deep explanation about many aspects of the car. Its actually pretty cool.

Here it is:

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      12-11-2019, 06:40 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post
I
Do you comprehend what you are saying? Why would a guy whose livelihood depends on selling GM crap, verbally shyte on the GM crap he sells? This guy is a professional racer, into power boats and a straight up gear head enthusiast. He is not some little pin headed, nerdy business man that inherited some car dealerships.

You also selectively responded/quoted a portion of my post and ignored the rest which could address your corroboration theory. Has GM never once sent ringer/hot cars to press? WTF was up with the car they made Leno drive. Every time Leno tried to get on it, he had that face like a kid in the candy store with his hand getting swatted every time he reached for candy. But hey, the convertible top is cool!
Yeah, I do comprehend what I'm saying. There's absolutely no evidence to back up what he said and if there was, it would've leaked by now.

As far as sending ringers, I can't think of Corvette they sent to the press since the introduction of the C5 that didn't perform the same in the hands of customers. If there was, I'd like to see it.
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      12-12-2019, 01:40 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See5 View Post
Yeah, I do comprehend what I'm saying. There's absolutely no evidence to back up what he said and if there was, it would've leaked by now.

As far as sending ringers, I can't think of Corvette they sent to the press since the introduction of the C5 that didn't perform the same in the hands of customers. If there was, I'd like to see it.
If you want to see a ringer test and a very much hyped car that might not fulfill promises........check out the GT500 drag test Ford did with fully prepped track, car and driver.

Sorry,

I know manufacturers always send ringers, but it is harder to do so with a N/A engine than a F/I. I know they can still tweak stuff, but you don't get the jump you would with a F/I car.
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      12-25-2019, 05:45 PM   #236
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As usual the Corvette is going to have it's detracters and haters.

I have to say, this is one badass car. Going to LOL when a 60k car smokes about everything else up to 2x the price and the Z will blow nearly everything else away except only the most insanely elite of cars.

I'm impressed with GM for once in 50yrs...haha. And wait until the aftermarket shops get a hold of this thing and get mods for suspension etc...gheez. You will be seeing 1000hp Vettes in short order. They are way more of enthusiast that crowd than M owners. Most come from muscle car with newer tech adapted mentality like myself.

Of course, like I do all cars I buy, I wait about 3-4 years for the price to grenade to about 40% of original, find a babied well taken care of sample, then buy it. so maybe 2024 to 2025 would be interested in one. About the time my youngest gets out of college...haha.
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      12-25-2019, 06:26 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dezzracer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dezzracer View Post
Lord you guys are sure chugging the Corvette cool aid. Car isn't even out yet. At 60k for the base model something has to give. Like quality, fit and finish, materials, reliability, exclusivity, I could go on. And I like to see somebody actually get one for 60k. If you want the "right model" with required features be prepared to spend at least 80. I do think that mid engine configuration is a good design and looks better than the previous gens but I'm just not a "Corvette guy" just like I'm not a Porsche guy. Plus I don't own any gold chains or pinky rings.

On paper it does appear to look like a lot of car for the money but it ain't no German engineered BMW M car baby. I see the new Corvette the same way I see more Mopars now. Everybody and their brother is going to be running around in one wanting to race everybody thinking they are the cock of the walk. Dime a dozen. So there.
Odd post You start off saying the car isnt even out yet and then immediately determine it must be poor quality and the price cant possibly be had at $60k lol. Sounds like you have an ax to grind with Corvette owners? Sheesh
No.. other than their gold chains and pinky rings. LOL. I say that in jest. I'm sure they have their fun with us stuck up BMW Owners as well. I'm just saying... lots talking here (this is BMW site right) like they are ready to trade in their German hot rods for the almighty 60k "super car" that Chevy apparently has coming out. Sheesh!! We shall see.
GTFO. You epitomize the typical Euro car BMW elitist jackass attitude that people, including other M owners despise. Have fun getting smoke by a base new Corvette in your near future. The guy with the gold chain and pinky ring will be glad to tell all of his friends about how he humiliated yet another Beemer owner.
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      12-25-2019, 07:44 PM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techlogik View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dezzracer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dezzracer View Post
Lord you guys are sure chugging the Corvette cool aid. Car isn't even out yet. At 60k for the base model something has to give. Like quality, fit and finish, materials, reliability, exclusivity, I could go on. And I like to see somebody actually get one for 60k. If you want the "right model" with required features be prepared to spend at least 80. I do think that mid engine configuration is a good design and looks better than the previous gens but I'm just not a "Corvette guy" just like I'm not a Porsche guy. Plus I don't own any gold chains or pinky rings.

On paper it does appear to look like a lot of car for the money but it ain't no German engineered BMW M car baby. I see the new Corvette the same way I see more Mopars now. Everybody and their brother is going to be running around in one wanting to race everybody thinking they are the cock of the walk. Dime a dozen. So there.
Odd post You start off saying the car isnt even out yet and then immediately determine it must be poor quality and the price cant possibly be had at $60k lol. Sounds like you have an ax to grind with Corvette owners? Sheesh
No.. other than their gold chains and pinky rings. LOL. I say that in jest. I'm sure they have their fun with us stuck up BMW Owners as well. I'm just saying... lots talking here (this is BMW site right) like they are ready to trade in their German hot rods for the almighty 60k "super car" that Chevy apparently has coming out. Sheesh!! We shall see.
GTFO. You epitomize the typical Euro car BMW elitist jackass attitude that people, including other M owners despise. Have fun getting smoke by a base new Corvette in your near future. The guy with the gold chain and pinky ring will be glad to tell all of his friends about how he humiliated yet another Beemer owner.
Again, This is a BMW forum right? So many here praising how amazing P cars are and now the almighty new Vette. Relax, I was just having some fun and sticking up for our beloved, pretentious and overpriced BMW's. That's ok on a BMW forum I hope. Elitist jackass attitude? Maybe for a few, which is why I made the self deprecating comment about stuck up BMW owners. I was joking. And so what if it can beat an M car..So can a Tesla and some Mustangs. Amazing world beater 60k super car and everyone is jizzing is my point. Every reveiw I've seen had as tested MSRP pushing 80k. Anyway I agree.. it appears to offer great performance
for the money. It's too bad about the styling.
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      12-26-2019, 09:38 AM   #239
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Rumor is a 7:28 ring time on PS4S tires. Base Z51 (no wing).

Good context from the group that publicized the time:

"Officially tested by Chevrolet, a C6 Corvette ZR1 with its 638 horsepower LS9 V8 managed a 7:19.63, while German auto magazine Sport Auto managed to fire off a lap time of 7:13.90 with a C7 Z06. Just as well, the Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE clocked an absurd 7:16.04 with a factory driver.

For further comparison, a 7:28.30 (factory tested) lap time puts the C8 Stingray in between the 2007 Porsche 911 GT2 (7:32) and BMW M4 GTS (7:27.88).

However, these vehicles represent the performance ceiling of whatís capable from the factory out of their respective platforms. The Stingray represents the floor for the C8 program. And judging by whatís coming down the pipe for the new mid-engine Corvette, that time is bound to improve radically."


Latest on the Z06 is that it will be n/a, flat-plane crank, and around 600 bhp. So, less than the C7 Z06 w/ 650.

Chevy potentially being the first to get it that after a certain amount of power is achieved, engine characteristics > engine power figures. About time somebody did. Paging M division
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      12-27-2019, 05:25 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Rumor is a 7:28 ring time on PS4S tires. Base Z51 (no wing).

Good context from the group that publicized the time:

"Officially tested by Chevrolet, a C6 Corvette ZR1 with its 638 horsepower LS9 V8 managed a 7:19.63, while German auto magazine Sport Auto managed to fire off a lap time of 7:13.90 with a C7 Z06. Just as well, the Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE clocked an absurd 7:16.04 with a factory driver.

For further comparison, a 7:28.30 (factory tested) lap time puts the C8 Stingray in between the 2007 Porsche 911 GT2 (7:32) and BMW M4 GTS (7:27.88).

However, these vehicles represent the performance ceiling of what’s capable from the factory out of their respective platforms. The Stingray represents the floor for the C8 program. And judging by what’s coming down the pipe for the new mid-engine Corvette, that time is bound to improve radically."


Latest on the Z06 is that it will be n/a, flat-plane crank, and around 600 bhp. So, less than the C7 Z06 w/ 650.

Chevy potentially being the first to get it that after a certain amount of power is achieved, engine characteristics > engine power figures. About time somebody did. Paging M division
A 12 year old GT2 represents the Porsche ceiling? What dumb arses write stuff like that and/or believes stuff like that. That is far from the ceiling of what Porsche offers.

The Porsche ceiling of the outgoing 991s was in the 6:47 to 6:56 range for GT3 RS. The old 997.2 GT2 RS 9 years ago was something like 7:18. The 991 turbo and the 991 GT3 are considerable faster than 7:18.

I am assuming this was a factory driver? Let's see what Gebhardt runs as his times tend to be slower than factory tests, but are good for comparisons to other cars he has logged Ring times in.

A good, but expected time from the C8 with good power on tap.
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      12-28-2019, 02:38 PM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post
A 12 year old GT2 represents the Porsche ceiling? What dumb arses write stuff like that and/or believes stuff like that. That is far from the ceiling of what Porsche offers.

The Porsche ceiling of the outgoing 991s was in the 6:47 to 6:56 range for GT3 RS. The old 997.2 GT2 RS 9 years ago was something like 7:18. The 991 turbo and the 991 GT3 are considerable faster than 7:18.

I am assuming this was a factory driver? Let's see what Gebhardt runs as his times tend to be slower than factory tests, but are good for comparisons to other cars he has logged Ring times in.

A good, but expected time from the C8 with good power on tap.
I agree. That means like for like the new 992S with a about 12% less power is faster on the Ring than the C8 z51 by about 3 seconds and the c8 wears a stickier tires too, as I recall. So the FLOOR for the 911 is quite fast. The ceiling for the 992 is likely going to be around 6:25-6:30 and I doubt that any Corvette will match it.
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      12-29-2019, 10:07 AM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post
A 12 year old GT2 represents the Porsche ceiling? What dumb arses write stuff like that and/or believes stuff like that. That is far from the ceiling of what Porsche offers.

The Porsche ceiling of the outgoing 991s was in the 6:47 to 6:56 range for GT3 RS. The old 997.2 GT2 RS 9 years ago was something like 7:18. The 991 turbo and the 991 GT3 are considerable faster than 7:18.

I am assuming this was a factory driver? Let's see what Gebhardt runs as his times tend to be slower than factory tests, but are good for comparisons to other cars he has logged Ring times in.

A good, but expected time from the C8 with good power on tap.
"the performance ceiling of what’s capable from the factory out of their respective platforms." Meaning, from that platform/generation. C6 ZR1 is mentioned for context as well. Chill... Author is not denigrating Porsche.

I'm old enough to still value 997 reference points, but yes, author forgot about the 997 GT2 RS. Believe that is the only 997 gen car to go faster than the base Z51 C8, though.

As for whether any C8 will have a 991.2 GT2 RS sub-7 minute time, shouldn't for <1/3 the price. But 7:28 on PS4S and base Z51 is a proper starting point. Consider that Cup 2 R alone, which Porsche has used to break various track records, would drop that time substantially.
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