What's a smaller, sportier, & lighter M3 replacement with only two doors?

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Lotus Elise/Exige

[jmg]

Originally Posted by NYG

Brotha, now that the C8 dropped. You should be able to find a C7 Z06 or even a Grand Sport for a ridiculous price and unlike our CS, it's not modified for performance, it's built for performance from the ground up. Or you could cough up just a little bit more and get yourself a C8.

I know the C7 Z06 is probably the choice that makes the most sense and probably the most logical choice, but emotionally, it doesn't do much for me. I was never the kid that had a poster of a Vette in their room, it was a BMW M3, Porsche 959, and a Countache. The C8 is such a strong contender to be ignored and the first Vette I am truly interested in, but the markup will be insane year one, just like the Supra and the Focus RS. They won't be viable until much later.

[saeyedoc]

Originally Posted by jmg

Why the preference of PDK over 6MT on the 981? I'm debating which to go with.

The PDK is just brilliant on the track, you can just concentrate on the line. In Sport+ mode it will hold gears until redline, at least in the older Caymans, the new ones may not be setup as aggressively.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by saeyedoc

The PDK is just brilliant on the track, you can just concentrate on the line. In Sport+ mode it will hold gears until redline, at least in the older Caymans, the new ones may not be setup as aggressively.

PDK is just as good if not better in the current cars and still the best dual clutch out there. My 991.2 T is PDK and in sport+ there is nothing better for track work except possibly the PDK-S in the GT cars which was brilliant on track in the 991.1 GT3.

[saeyedoc]

I had just heard that on the new ones, Sport+ Auto won't hold gears until redline if you're not on the throttle aggressively.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Gomeler

If you want less of a muscle car(let's be honest, the F8x platform is german muscle), I'd consider either a ND Miata and a pile of r-comps, or a 981 GTS with the PDK and a slightly smaller pile of r-comps. Both great momentum cars with extensive aftermarket/track support. Sub-4.0s 0-60s are really only fun a few times on the street, eventually you miss winding the engine out and not hitting 30mph+ over the local limit.

I love that you brought up Miata. I 100% agree, with the edit that a competition modified car with its license plates and reg still up to date is the way to go.

I don’t think OP is enough of a track addict to go that route.

[Gneiss]

Any consideration for the Alfa 4C?

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by Gneiss

Any consideration for the Alfa 4C?

Good suggestion.

I also think that while it is not light, GT350 would be a good option.

[cowtown]

Originally Posted by jmg

I like this idea, but call me old fashioned, I kinda want to stick with RWD and used for now.

Up to $60K used you say...

If I were in your shoes I'd be looking at a 5-6 year old Carrera S.

I'd stay with a German car if you like how the BMWs drive. My brother in law has a Lotus and a Miata, and they are tincans....

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by saeyedoc

I had just heard that on the new ones, Sport+ Auto won't hold gears until redline if you're not on the throttle aggressively.

I would say it’s a bit more adaptable than the older sport+ whereas the old one would just not shift until redline this one will shift if you left off (so in line with your statement). I guess I see that as better but might vary. I think sport+ can be driven on the street now if one wanted.

[Gomeler]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I love that you brought up Miata. I 100% agree, with the edit that a competition modified car with its license plates and reg still up to date is the way to go.

I don’t think OP is enough of a track addict to go that route.

You're in the upper echelons of trackrats if you are street driving a caged car. I personally wouldn't do it, no helmet + cage + accident = cracked skull

That being said, with a Miata you could buy so much in the way of consumables/track time that you'll become an amazing driver. I wheel to wheel raced one for ~25 8-hour endurance races over 2 years(maybe 60 hours of actual race seat time + ~200 hours of test/tune time), it added so much experience around car control and navigating traffic.

Originally Posted by cowtown

Up to $60K used you say...

If I were in your shoes I'd be looking at a 2-3 year old Carrera S.

If you could live with AWD, a 3-4 year old 911 Turbo.

I'd stay with a German car if you like how the BMWs drive. My brother in law has a Lotus and a Miata, and they are tincans....

Tincan is a bit harsh. If the goal is getting a ton of seat time without blowing through tens of thousands of dollars in tires, a Miata is perfect. Sure, the interior isn't great, and the doors rattle when they close, but does that matter when you're catching cars in corners? I had a lot of fun thrashing cars with 3x the HP due to weighing 2100lbs and running on a 245 width 200tw on 15x10 square setup. Didn't run r-comps due to practicing for enduros, it'd have been nutty with that much grip under the car.

[dkhm3]

no substitute for lightness.
even a couple of hundred pounds lighter than the f80 is exponentially more fun.
c8 is the same weight as the f80.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by jmg

The C8 is such a strong contender to be ignored and the first Vette I am truly interested in, but the markup will be insane year one, just like the Supra and the Focus RS. They won't be viable until much later.

Plenty of dealers are selling C8 allocations with no markup, just MSRP. I have a deposit with one right now. Just gotta be willing to call around.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Gomeler

You're in the upper echelons of trackrats if you are street driving a caged car. I personally wouldn't do it, no helmet + cage + accident = cracked skull

That being said, with a Miata you could buy so much in the way of consumables/track time that you'll become an amazing driver. I wheel to wheel raced one for ~25 8-hour endurance races over 2 years(maybe 60 hours of actual race seat time + ~200 hours of test/tune time), it added so much experience around car control and navigating traffic.



Tincan is a bit harsh.

Gomeler, agreed, you definitely need to be a track addict to go this route. As you pointed out, I am saving a lot of money and accelerating my learning, so I'm really happy with that move for my weekend toy (track car)


I think all the positives you outlined are on point, and the tin can comment, I think is a fair summary of the downside. It does indeed get a bit old having to climb in and out of the roll cage at gas stations, and i need to wear earplugs.

But hey, the door card is a plain plastic piece with a cloth door pull, and the seat is a fixed back racing shell seat. If this were a Porsche, it would be part of the "lightweight competition package" and would be an uber rare option that would be $$$$ and unobtainium. LOL

EDIT: speaking of porsches, i rarely use mine anymore, since my EV is a way better fast daily driver, and the SM is a way better track car.....

[jmg]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I love that you brought up Miata. I 100% agree, with the edit that a competition modified car with its license plates and reg still up to date is the way to go.

I don’t think OP is enough of a track addict to go that route.

Ideally I'd like a car good for the track and occasional street driving. No full cage or stripped interior yet. I'd like to get an extra set of wheels/tires with some suspension and brake upgrades with a harness.

[gatorfast]

The Porsche Cayman which you already love is the obvious choice. No need to look any further.

There were several other good suggestions in this thread too such as a C7 vette. Perhaps a viper? Lotus?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by jmg

Ideally I'd like a car good for the track and occasional street driving. No full cage or stripped interior yet. I'd like to get an extra set of wheels/tires with some suspension and brake upgrades with a harness.

I think Gomeler's suggestion of ND miata and a pile of r-comps was pretty great, to be honest. you don't have to take it to the extreme that I did to have a good time in a Miata

E46M3 or E36M3 that someone has already modded is a nice choice, as are older Boxster/Cayman

The 981 you mentioned is a good choice too, but I don't know if you're comfortable to stuff a newer more expensive car and just write it off.

Track insurance adds up, and so do the larger diameter tires that the newer cars like to use.

I PMed you about my 996TT, and that would work and fit in your budget, but I'll be honest with you, I think Porsche is better if you are mostly street focused or have a metric ton of money lying around.

I don't track it heavily because it is WAY more expensive to maintain Porsche than Miata. Just refreshing the gearbox and front diff on that car was pretty much the purchase price of my spec miata That would go for any Porsche. It is a classic "pay to play" car brand

[NYG]

Originally Posted by jmg

I know the C7 Z06 is probably the choice that makes the most sense and probably the most logical choice, but emotionally, it doesn't do much for me. I was never the kid that had a poster of a Vette in their room, it was a BMW M3, Porsche 959, and a Countache. The C8 is such a strong contender to be ignored and the first Vette I am truly interested in, but the markup will be insane year one, just like the Supra and the Focus RS. They won't be viable until much later.

My buddy tells me he's getting his C8 at sticker.

[CachacoF80]

Lotus all the way. Elise or Exige assuming you don't need all the comfort of the M3. They are unreal. Just drive one. A fairly new Evora could be more easy to live on a daily basis and you can get them for 40-60k.

I miss my Elise, nothing corners like a Lotus. Nothing.

As soon as Lotus, under the new ownership, launches the Elise replacement, I shall sell the M3! But I'll have to wait 3-4 years.

The Cayman is a good option but there is nothing exclusive about it and personally, I struggle with the average Porsche owner profile (ie look at me, I made it and have $$...but don't know much about cars...). But they are great cars. They do feel like a pig next to a Lotus in terms of weight.

[ntg44]

Originally Posted by CachacoF80

Lotus all the way. Elise or Exige assuming you don't need all the comfort of the M3. They are unreal. Just drive one. A fairly new Evora could be more easy to live on a daily basis and you can get them for 40-60k.

I miss my Elise, nothing corners like a Lotus. Nothing.

I drove an Elise once. It was the most exhilarating experience ever. Manual steering, manual transmission, plenty of power. The stereotype that it is a go kart for the street is absolutely not an exaggeration. Very cool car.

[saeyedoc]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

I would say it’s a bit more adaptable than the older sport+ whereas the old one would just not shift until redline this one will shift if you left off (so in line with your statement). I guess I see that as better but might vary. I think sport+ can be driven on the street now if one wanted.

Exactly, in the older version, you couldn't really drive it on the street for long

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by jmg

I've absolutely loved my 2016 M3 and my current 2018 M3 CS. Now I'm looking into something smaller, lighter, and sportier. I originally got the F80 because I needed a 4 door for the family, but now that it's been promoted to weekend/track car, I feel like I don't need the 4 doors anymore. I'm looking for a coupe to have fun with in the canyons and on the track and auto-crossing. I'm open to out of the box suggestions! Some thoughts:

• Doesn't have to be 400hp+, just has to be fun
• Coupe
• Nimble
• Preferably used so I can make it a project car
• No supercars, I'm not rich! Under $60k used preferred.
• As much as I wanted a STI in the past, I prefer something a little more refined and "my age".

It's no secret that my current top choice is a 981 Cayman S or GTS. I've been lusting for one for months here on the forums. It checks all the boxes, but I'm open to suggestions and personal experiences!

Doesn't actually fit your criteria, but you will have an astounding amount of fun in a 1LE Camaro on the street, and will challenge all sorts of "important" iron on track, and will drive those guys nuts.

You'll just have to get over caring what other folks think about your ride, and man up about it.

The most fun track car I ever owned was a bottom-feeder from Chrysler called a Neon SRT. Punched way above its bottom-feeder roots on track, and pissed off quite a large number of BMW drivers enough so they resisted being passed until thrown the passing flag - or even the black flag.

If you take a 1LE for a drive, it will have you thinking serious thoughts about it.

Short money, as well.