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      02-06-2014, 06:01 PM   #287
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I dont know what we are comparing here. The two cars are so different in interior and exterior style that they should be appealing to totally different people. I honestly can never accept Mercedes design, and to be quite frankly, I feel disgusted every time I see the new Mercedes cars. I always tell whoever is with me at the moment "how do people buy these cars, they just look so bad!" and I mean that and I am not trying to get flamed here, just my honest two cents.

I'm sure people who own Mercedes say the same thing about us. They probably think BMWs are so understated and dull.
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      02-06-2014, 06:06 PM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elevenfive View Post
AMG boss says new C AMG will be RWD


"“In this segment, it’s still important to have a rear-wheel drive car. There will be enough improvements in the new C-Class that there will be no need for 4Matic."

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/pres...T0yMCZObmU9MjA
In general conditions there might be no need for it, but there will still be people in the northern regions that want it for snow. They might change their mind, remember the E63 had RWD and AWD option and just recently dropped the RWD in the US because the AWD was being selected in 90% of their orders.
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      02-06-2014, 06:15 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Agree.

I hope the reveal at Paris is correct too. I am sort of gravitating toward a sedan for my next car now (but then I said that when I was in the E46 M3 and eyeing the E9x M3 too ), so this is probably the only car on the near horizon other than the ATS-V that could keep me out of an F80. It will be nice to have details on both in the next few months.
The W204 C63 might be the first car I ever "keep" but the F80 M3 is on my radar. I'd be adding either the W205 or the F80. The ATS-V should be very promising as well.

I personally have been thrilled with every new development I've read about the F80. The weight savings, the inline 6 motor, etc. All things that scream ///M to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbockrd View Post
They are really good looking, but no manual and heavy as sin. The drive is not like an M at all. I contemplated it but can't imagine pulling the trigger unless it performs like or better than an M. If you want a Black edition, you are spending bigggggg monney
Yeah if a 6-speed manual is a must for you, the AMGs are out I'm afraid.

With respect to the driving dynamics of the C63, have you driven a '12+ model?

Several months ago I was contemplating an E9X M3 (before I ultimately chose the C63).

I've explained my thoughts on how the two compared several times but the short version is this: the M3 felt lighter and the DCT was quicker (especially the upshifts in M mode) but on the street, the C63 felt like one of the most neutral cars I've ever driven (period, not just in its class). The C63's steering was firmer (consistently so) and more communicative. I was also surprised that the C63 had the firmer ride. For daily driving purposes, the two were basically equal, as far as "handling" is concerned.

The C63's extra power and torque, combined with the glorious sounds it made, broke the tie for me. The M156 pulls insanely hard at 5.5k, all the way out to 7,300 rpm.

In the hands of the average driver, I'm confident that the E9X M3 will turn out faster laps (especially on technically demanding tracks) because it's lighter and a bit less powerful (much more confidence inspiring).

You can get in trouble with the heavier, more tail happy C63 in a hurry but in the hands of capable driver, it is hard to beat on faster, long sweeper-filled tracks.
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      02-07-2014, 11:41 AM   #290
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I would drive this over the M4 for some reason, I know tuning will be a lot easier and gains with be outrageous.
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      02-17-2014, 10:46 AM   #291
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Newest sources (Rolf Kacher AutoBild) rumors an debut of the new W205 C63AMG for as early as March 2014 (Geneva Auto Show?) ... this meens that it would comes most probably with the M157 Engine with 5.5ltr.V8TT and 525hp/553hp(S-Model) ... an March debut come too early for the M177 engine, because this complete new engine is scheduled for debut in the new SLC/GT, which comes earliest late 2014 with an possible press debut at the german F1 Grand Prix.
If because of this reason the M157 was choosen, and this engine come in the lowest output version, this meens the quoted 525hp for the standard version and let enough space for ~30hp stronger S-Version even below of the standard E63s outpot.
If AMG gains some extra weight reductions over the standard C205s 100kg reduction, than the weight difference vs. the M3/M4 would even be lower than by the preceesors

Seem that the new C63 could be first time quicker also on track than the M3/M4 .
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      02-17-2014, 12:41 PM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
Newest sources (Rolf Kacher AutoBild) rumors an debut of the new W205 C63AMG for as early as March 2014 (Geneva Auto Show?) ... this meens that it would comes most probably with the M157 Engine with 5.5ltr.V8TT and 525hp/553hp(S-Model) ... an March debut come too early for the M177 engine, because this complete new engine is scheduled for debut in the new SLC/GT, which comes earliest late 2014 with an possible press debut at the german F1 Grand Prix.
If because of this reason the M157 was choosen, and this engine come in the lowest output version, this meens the quoted 525hp for the standard version and let enough space for ~30hp stronger S-Version even below of the standard E63s outpot.
If AMG gains some extra weight reductions over the standard C205s 100kg reduction, than the weight difference vs. the M3/M4 would even be lower than by the preceesors

Seem that the new C63 could be first time quicker also on track than the M3/M4 .
If thats true....M4 is in some trouble.
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      02-17-2014, 01:19 PM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
Newest sources (Rolf Kacher AutoBild) rumors an debut of the new W205 C63AMG for as early as March 2014 (Geneva Auto Show?) ... this meens that it would comes most probably with the M157 Engine with 5.5ltr.V8TT and 525hp/553hp(S-Model) ... an March debut come too early for the M177 engine, because this complete new engine is scheduled for debut in the new SLC/GT, which comes earliest late 2014 with an possible press debut at the german F1 Grand Prix.
Very sketchy deductions in my opinion.

Who says the engine has to arrive in the C190 first? That car is slated to get the M178, by the way, which is a higher output version.

We've already heard the M177 confirmed for the W205 "C63" by officials in AMG. To me, at this point there is almost zero chance the car gets the M157. And even if it did, that does not mean it will make 525hp just because that's the lowest output it has been offered in previously.
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      02-17-2014, 01:33 PM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Very sketchy deductions in my opinion.

Who says the engine has to arrive in the C190 first? That car is slated to get the M178, by the way, which is a higher output version.

We've already heard the M177 confirmed for the W205 "C63" by officials in AMG. To me, at this point there is almost zero chance the car gets the M157. And even if it did, that does not mean it will make 525hp just because that's the lowest output it has been offered in previously.
It is totally clear, that the M177 will find his way into the C63 ... simply because in the future all AMGs would get this new engine.

The only question is if the new C63 would get this engine from its debut on or with the MOPF !?
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      02-17-2014, 01:42 PM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
It is totally clear, that the M177 will find his way into the C63 ... simply because in the future all AMGs would get this new engine.

The only question is if the new C63 would get this engine from its debut on or with the MOPF !?
it makes no sense to me that they would put the 5.5l in the car for one year only (they even have stated that it wont fit in the c class) and then go to the 4.0

imo the car will have the 4.0 from the outset, and still be heavier and worse handling than the m3 as usual.

but, it will be a compelling car at a good price for dd duties, especially if you are an automatic gearbox kinda guy
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      02-17-2014, 02:09 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
it makes no sense to me that they would put the 5.5l in the car for one year only (they even have stated that it wont fit in the c class) and then go to the 4.0

imo the car will have the 4.0 from the outset, and still be heavier and worse handling than the m3 as usual.

but, it will be a compelling car at a good price for dd duties, especially if you are an automatic gearbox kinda guy
BUT the same source that confirmed the M177 in the new C63 also quoted an debut at Geneva 2015 ... when only the M177 would make sence !!!

AND for sure the C63 will be heavier than M3/M4 but I think the difference between the two car would be much smaller vs. the hp-difference would getting greater !?
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      02-17-2014, 02:43 PM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
Newest sources (Rolf Kacher AutoBild) rumors an debut of the new W205 C63AMG for as early as March 2014 (Geneva Auto Show?) ... this meens that it would comes most probably with the M157 Engine with 5.5ltr.V8TT and 525hp/553hp(S-Model) ... an March debut come too early for the M177 engine, because this complete new engine is scheduled for debut in the new SLC/GT, which comes earliest late 2014 with an possible press debut at the german F1 Grand Prix.
If because of this reason the M157 was choosen, and this engine come in the lowest output version, this meens the quoted 525hp for the standard version and let enough space for ~30hp stronger S-Version even below of the standard E63s outpot.
If AMG gains some extra weight reductions over the standard C205s 100kg reduction, than the weight difference vs. the M3/M4 would even be lower than by the preceesors

Seem that the new C63 could be first time quicker also on track than the M3/M4 .
These rumors are completely inaccurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Very sketchy deductions in my opinion.

Who says the engine has to arrive in the C190 first? That car is slated to get the M178, by the way, which is a higher output version.

We've already heard the M177 confirmed for the W205 "C63" by officials in AMG. To me, at this point there is almost zero chance the car gets the M157. And even if it did, that does not mean it will make 525hp just because that's the lowest output it has been offered in previously.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
it makes no sense to me that they would put the 5.5l in the car for one year only (they even have stated that it wont fit in the c class) and then go to the 4.0

imo the car will have the 4.0 from the outset, and still be heavier and worse handling than the m3 as usual.

but, it will be a compelling car at a good price for dd duties, especially if you are an automatic gearbox kinda guy
I agree that the 5.5L won't be in the W205.

Disagree on the "worse handling" comment. The lap times have proven that the LCI W204 C63 (which has almost an entirely different suspension than the pre-LCI model that debuted in '08) is a very competent competitor to the E90 M3, as far as handling is concerned.

Of course, in the hands of average drivers (i.e., those people that are just starting/beginning to "track" their cars), I would agree that the lighter, less powerful car would be easier to drive "faster."

I've driven each car extensively over the years (love them both) and after my most recent back-to-back comparison, I concluded that the LCI C63 felt just as neutral as the M3, had better turn-in feel (crisp, responsive), and had slightly better steering feel overall (including a nice, consistent weight).

The W204 is heavier though. Without a doubt. For example, when correcting oversteer in the E90 M3, the car is very easy to bring back. With the extra weight in the C63, the car snaps/bites back a little harder when correcting. It can be a little nerve-wracking at first until you get a feel for it.

And from the factory, even the LCI C63 was limited somewhat by it's laughably skinny rear tires (255-section rears). With 275s in the back (and 245s up front), grip increases dramatically and you can use the car's additional power more effectively.

The W205 is getting a weight reduction of at least 110 lbs but if the weights that BMW M have been promoting for the F80 and F82 are true, the W205 definitely has its work cut out for it.

I think a well-optioned, fueled-up F80 M3 with DCT will come in at over 3,450 lbs.
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      02-20-2014, 08:05 PM   #298
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This car is ugly, sure it won't be exactly the same but looks close enough. nothing aggressive about this car looks like a mini E
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      02-20-2014, 08:12 PM   #299
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Hmmm- definitely prefer the look of the old car but then again these are only renderings, could look nothing like this when released.
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      02-20-2014, 08:18 PM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss134
Hmmm- definitely prefer the look of the old car but then again these are only renderings, could look nothing like this when released.
I don't see it being to far off of this rendering. I've seen very few E63 around but you really can't tell the difference between a normal E class and the AMG.
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      02-20-2014, 08:27 PM   #301
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that would be terrible

but the recent amgs have all looked pretty good, so I certainly expect them to do better than that
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      02-20-2014, 08:31 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers
that would be terrible

but the recent amgs have all looked pretty good, so I certainly expect them to do better than that
Idk E63 is very ugly, only AMG I really like looks wise is SLS and CLS. Here another render but doesn't even compare to M3 presence IMO
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      02-20-2014, 08:31 PM   #303
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      02-20-2014, 10:14 PM   #304
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Personally, I don't like Mercedes Transmission. It's behind BMW's DCT
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      02-21-2014, 01:00 AM   #305
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I don't know I kind of like the pics lol maybe it's beer goggle talking lol.
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      02-21-2014, 01:11 AM   #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw View Post
I don't see it being to far off of this rendering. I've seen very few E63 around but you really can't tell the difference between a normal E class and the AMG.
Pretty clear difference IMO.

E63:



My E550:

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      02-21-2014, 01:14 AM   #307
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Just the bumper and the grill nothing on the e63 that's really that different.
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      02-21-2014, 01:18 AM   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw View Post
Just the bumper and the grill nothing on the e63 that's really that different.
The entire front bumper is different, the entire rear bumper is different, they have different interior details, different wheels, different brakes, and different fender flares.

But other than that, the same, I agree.

It's the same with the M3 and the 3er or the M5 and 5er. They share substantially the same interiors, the same doors, grille design (minus the difference in the actual bars), headlight design, etc.

Because you're not familiar with Mercedes designs, you're naturally less keen on picking up on the differences. It's natural.

You're pretty dead set on avoiding the next C63 so I don't know why you're worried about it haha.
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