M4 vs 440i

[N55SFH]

I’m aware this question has been asked before, but I’m not asking it in as simple a way as previously posted.

In the not too distant future I’ll be buying either an M4 or 440i, I’m coming from an e92 335i so I wanted to stick with the coupe but go for something faster than the 435i.
My reason for asking which is best is two fold:
1. The B58 is a much more reliable and versatile engine than the S55 (and better sounding). But, is it worth getting a 440i and bringing it to M4 level (power and suspension wise)? For context I have M3 suspension on my 335i with B14 coilovers and it handles as well as an e92 M3, the only difference being the diff which is mildly noticeable. Would this be the same case for putting M4 suspension bits on a 440i and tuning the engine, or is there more to it?
2. The premium for M4s is insane, insurance is double, tax is more, fuel is more, parts are more, etc. is the material difference in car worth the extra expense? This will be a daily so I have to keep that in mind.
My 335i is FBO with all previously mentioned suspension upgrades and it’s been a dream, better than the M3s I’ve had a go in, but will a 440i compare to an M4 in the same respect once the same has been done to it?
I’ve heard there’s more to the M4 than fancy suspension arms and an LSD like the old M3.

I’m massively conflicted and need some input from people who’ve owned either car, or preferably both.

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by N55SFH

I’m aware this question has been asked before, but I’m not asking it in as simple a way as previously posted.

In the not too distant future I’ll be buying either an M4 or 440i, I’m coming from an e92 335i so I wanted to stick with the coupe but go for something faster than the 435i.
My reason for asking which is best is two fold:
1. The B58 is a much more reliable and versatile engine than the S55 (and better sounding). But, is it worth getting a 440i and bringing it to M4 level (power and suspension wise)? For context I have M3 suspension on my 335i with B14 coilovers and it handles as well as an e92 M3, the only difference being the diff which is mildly noticeable. Would this be the same case for putting M4 suspension bits on a 440i and tuning the engine, or is there more to it?
2. The premium for M4s is insane, insurance is double, tax is more, fuel is more, parts are more, etc. is the material difference in car worth the extra expense? This will be a daily so I have to keep that in mind.
My 335i is FBO with all previously mentioned suspension upgrades and it’s been a dream, better than the M3s I’ve had a go in, but will a 440i compare to an M4 in the same respect once the same has been done to it?
I’ve heard there’s more to the M4 than fancy suspension arms and an LSD like the old M3.

I’m massively conflicted and need some input from people who’ve owned either car, or preferably both.

The S55 (itself) is a pretty reliable engine. There is only one true Achilles heel and that is the crankhub but it only becomes an issue if you are tuned.

It is not worth getting an 440i to become an M4 because a 440i is meant to be a comfortable cruiser and a powerful engine. It has a normal transmission, and it doesn't have the quirks of a DCT.

There are things that make an M4 an M4 and that is the wider track, the Carbon Fiber Roof, CF Strut Brace, CF Driveshaft, CFRP Trunk, the adaptative suspension, the 7 or 8 radiators (if you have a DCT), M Differential, the twin turbo engine. The 440i is a single turbo that is dual scroll.

Any M car will hold its value better than a normal BMW. M sport or any like "M440i/M340i" will depreciate harder because it's not as sought after in the used market by enthusiast. It's mostly enthusiasts that drive up the used car market and not a normal car buyer. If it has a manual transmission, it will hold even better.

I mostly compare costs to my other car which is a Toyota Camry XSE 4 cylinder. The Camry insurance costs more per month than my M4. I asked the insurance agent why and the reasoning I got is because there are more Camry on the road which means there are more of these that get into accidents. This leads to higher costs.

There are less M4s on the road and most of the time only more affluent people can afford these kinds of cars which typically ends up being older people who drive more responsible.

Fuel is not that much different. I get about 20 MPG on my M4 from daily driving but I sit in traffic like 90% of the time so most of my drive is city.

Maintenance isn't too bad. I run BMW LL01 oil so I follow the BMW Condition Based Service Intervals which ends up being like ~10K miles. This usually runs me $140. Here's a fun fact. My Camry runs 5K intervals. I get charged $86 per oil change. It will cost me $172 dollars in oil changes for my Camry to run 10K miles than $140 in my BMW M4.

Doesn't seem to matter about what car it is since Brake Fluid Flushes run me $150 for both cars.

Filters are relatively the same price between those two cars, if you use FCP Euro you can get lifetime replacements of the parts even on consumables.

Spark Plugs and Diff Fluids are going to be the main differences since Spark Plugs in the M4 are changed every 3rd Oil Change and this costed me $338 for parts and labor. Diff fluid I think costed me about $250 for parts and labor.

[Boznien]

+1 for the M4. You'll leave yourself wanting the M more and will regret not getting it if you get the 440i. I've had both an F80 and F30 340i and I would take the F80 nine out of ten times. (Depends on my mood.)

[Brandoch]

I’m aware this question has been asked before.

[N55SFH]

Originally Posted by Brandoch

I’m aware this question has been asked before.

Thanks for sharing

[N55SFH]

Originally Posted by Boznien

+1 for the M4. You'll leave yourself wanting the M more and will regret not getting it if you get the 440i. I've had both an F80 and F30 340i and I would take the F80 nine out of ten times. (Depends on my mood.)

Yeh I was inclined this way already but wasn’t sure whether the premium was really worth it, but the list of chassis bracing etc that you don’t get on the F32 highlights that the M4 only really shares the F chassis designation with the 440i and not much else

[Slow M3]

No shade on the 440 it’s a capable car for what it was made for but a 440i will never become an M4 no matter how you try to mod it like one. That concept will only exist in your mind, the rest of us will only see a 440i.

Also good luck getting anything back when trying to sell an over modified 440.

My suggestion is to just get the benchmark to begin with or be satisfied with almost as good.

[b_w.]

does the 440 have a solid mounted subframe like the f8x?

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by b_w.

does the 440 have a solid mounted subframe like the f8x?

No, it should not.

[Boznien]

Originally Posted by N55SFH

Yeh I was inclined this way already but wasn’t sure whether the premium was really worth it, but the list of chassis bracing etc that you don’t get on the F32 highlights that the M4 only really shares the F chassis designation with the 440i and not much else

That sums it up pretty well. The 4 series and M4 are completely different animals in engineering, product design, and performance.

[j2dad5389]

Having gone this route before, there is no substitute for the M's. I've had a 335i, m235, 340i, M340i. And every time I've tried to make them like an M, it just falls short. Get it and never look back. It's the best!

[Alvin Mpower]

I traded my 440i for the M4, have 2 years of both cars, here are my thoughts.

440i can put the power down harder driving on the street because awd can put power down easier, you will feel the car shovel you in the seat more, the instant burst of power. But if you doing highway pulls the M4 will pull way harder and will pull forever, 440i will stop pulling after 80mph.

ZF8 vs MDCT, dct is just better. I had a manual in my 440i, but I have drove many zf8 in bmw, dct is just more fun to drive and shift.

440i is more comfortable, more comfortable seat vs the sport bucket seats in the m4. But if you lower your 440i on spring it will start ride like shit, when I test drove the M4 I couldn’t believe how much more comfortable the M4 ride vs my 440i lowered on H&R sport springs.

You can put on all season performance tires on 440i and call it a day, I couldn’t tell the performance difference between all season performance and the summer tires, I swap them for winter and summer. But if you put all season on M4 you can feel the car don’t pull as hard, and won’t handle as well vs summer tires.

There is no LSD on 440i, you can buy the M performance LSD but I doubt it’s as good as the M LSD on the M cars.

For me the maintenance is basically the same, oil change and spark plugs. Only difference is when you starts to change out other M specially parts, then it will probably be more expensive, I haven’t had the need to change any of those parts yet so idk the difference. But anything with M logo stamped on it will cost you a kidney.

M4 looks 10 times better than the 440i, not saying 440i isn’t attractive but M4 is more aggressive.

Depends on what you want, 440i is best bang for the money, but if you have the money go with M4.

[Donnymar]

The M4 is leagues above a built 440i, sure you can make the 440i faster because of the B58 and it is cheaper to build up the power in it. But it lacks that raw feeling that a true M has. I’ve had a few bmws over the past 5 years. E60 525i, your usual heavy 5 series luxury cruiser, comfortable, then I got into a F32 430i, quick, sleek, comfortable, and a well rounded all rounder. I did have a stage 2 on that and it was as fast as a stock 440i, but it didn’t have that character.

I now have a F80 M3 and love every single part of it.

Carbon roof, wider body, carbon everywhere including the damn drive shaft of all things. The interior quality is leagues above.

The Ms are a awesome platform, the S55 is a very very strong engine, not as reliable as the B58 (Because Toyota and BMW partnership) but it is still an extremely reliable engine. Other than your usual BMW traits like the leaking valve cover, oil filter housing, oil pan, and intercooler on top. You’ll be completely fine.

Regular maintenance is key with these cars no matter what engine. The S55 because it is a high performance engine does require a bit more attention and time.

Compared to the B58 the S55 is definitely not a novice engine to work on. Oil changes easy, filters easy, everything is pretty accessible. Only thing that’s a pain is the spark plugs they are bit of a pain to get to because more stuff on the engine but overall very nice engine.

The Ms also are highly configurable. M1 M2 and standard non M mode. With the press of a button you go from comfortable daily to animal(M1) to beast(M2) depending how you configure those settings.

The sound is good not the best but still good. With say a simple catless resonated downpipe, a resonated equal length exhaust and stock muffler the car will sound leagues better than the B58.

And that DCT damn is it amazing. Manual as well.

Pure drivers car, holds its value pretty well, and people do look at you the car does turn heads (mainly for people who are a bit more conscious of their surroundings) other times the car blends. Especially since there isn’t a huge difference between the M4 and 4 series body other than the front, sides and rear. Only people that really know what a M is will know. To the general public all they see is another 4 series, they can’t really tell the difference. But us enthusiasts know what these cars are.

My advice go for it. BMW won’t make another pure M3/4 like the F8X generation again, the G8X is a good example, it is a very very fast car but it lacks the raw feeling of a true M and sure they look good but the F gen looks better.

Also the newer Ms don’t have the same feeling like it wants to kill you. The F gen M cars are so raw that it constantly wants to kill you if you do not respect it.

Clip of that exhaust set up I was talking about, currently running the same on mine
: https://www.facebook.com/share/v/19P...ibextid=UalRPS

This setup has a few nice deep tone, that really turns GTR R35 V6 sound when under heavy acceleration.

[j2dad5389]

Originally Posted by N1rve

The Camry insurance costs more per month than my M4. I asked the insurance agent why and the reasoning I got is because there are more Camry on the road which means there are more of these that get into accidents. This leads to higher costs.

There are less M4s on the road and most of the time only more affluent people can afford these kinds of cars which typically ends up being older people who drive more responsible.

With that logic, even though there are less, with the car being overall more expensive and cars more expensive wouldn't it equal out?
I.e. more cars, cheaper parts vs. less cars, expensive parts

[M 4 FUN]

When you look a bit deeper when you compare a 440 with a M4 you notice that about 80% of the components are unigue to the M4. It is a totally different car, not a modified regular 4 series. You might think that you get the same chassi with a upgraded suspension but that is not so. Suspension arms, cooling system, reinforcements and a lot more is different.
If you get disturbed by a stiffer and a bit more noisy ride you should not buy a M car.

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by j2dad5389

With that logic, even though there are less, with the car being overall more expensive and cars more expensive wouldn't it equal out?
I.e. more cars, cheaper parts vs. less cars, expensive parts

I don’t think so. Because of the ratios of Camrys vs M4, it’s pretty high. How many Camrys do you see on the street before you see an M4? lol

Usually it’s like you’ll see 30 Camrys before you even spot 1 M4/M3. And most people don’t daily the M3/M4 and treat them as garage queens. You also need to factor the type of people who drive the cars. M3/M4 owners are typically older people who don’t crash the car lol. There aren’t many young M3/M4 owners who can afford the car. The barrier to entry/cost of maintenance scare a lot of people away. The people who buy these cars have to be affluent.

You’ll see a lot of different drivers in a Camry because it’s known to be safe and reliable so you’ll have a broader range of types of drivers. You’ll get a lot of new and young drivers which tend to get into more accidents. Barrier to entry is low and Toyota sells Thousands of Camrys a year lol.

[Tato]

Originally Posted by Boznien

+1 for the M4. You'll leave yourself wanting the M more and will regret not getting it if you get the 440i. I've had both an F80 and F30 340i and I would take the F80 nine out of ten times. (Depends on my mood.)

Curious as to what made you sell the M3 and keep the 340i

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by N55SFH

I’m aware this question has been asked before, but I’m not asking it in as simple a way as previously posted.

In the not too distant future I’ll be buying either an M4 or 440i, I’m coming from an e92 335i so I wanted to stick with the coupe but go for something faster than the 435i.
My reason for asking which is best is two fold:
1. The B58 is a much more reliable and versatile engine than the S55 (and better sounding). But, is it worth getting a 440i and bringing it to M4 level (power and suspension wise)? For context I have M3 suspension on my 335i with B14 coilovers and it handles as well as an e92 M3, the only difference being the diff which is mildly noticeable. Would this be the same case for putting M4 suspension bits on a 440i and tuning the engine, or is there more to it?
2. The premium for M4s is insane, insurance is double, tax is more, fuel is more, parts are more, etc. is the material difference in car worth the extra expense? This will be a daily so I have to keep that in mind.
My 335i is FBO with all previously mentioned suspension upgrades and it’s been a dream, better than the M3s I’ve had a go in, but will a 440i compare to an M4 in the same respect once the same has been done to it?
I’ve heard there’s more to the M4 than fancy suspension arms and an LSD like the old M3.

I’m massively conflicted and need some input from people who’ve owned either car, or preferably both.

in simple words one has dual personality and more complex engineering than the other. are you willing to pay for it?

[Boznien]

Originally Posted by Tato

Curious as to what made you sell the M3 and keep the 340i

$10k more in my pocket. Flipped the F80 for profit. Found this unicorn 340 and wanted to try the B58 platform.

Getting back into the F80 again next year. Market is just insane on these cars.