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11-18-2013, 04:17 PM | #23 |
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Ok I was just wondering since there are reports of the M5 suffering heat soak and going into limp mode when doing longer stints on the track. So nothing he say here on cooling is an improvement over the M5? Not that I'm concerned I'm not going to do hard track duty with mine.
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11-18-2013, 04:25 PM | #24 | |
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Many brand names sell exclusivity, but manufacture in China or other cheap places. For instance Breitling, and allmost every Swiss watch, use ETA manufactured moving parts. So, a Rolex, Breitling or Omega can have the exact same moving parts (or engine ), it's only the exterior/case that differs... ETA is owned by SWATCH, a manufacturer also of cheap watches. Some info here on ETA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_SA But I think your post is interesting, because it conveys a belief in some brands of watches being exclusively made with bespoke components. Not because we know it is, but because we believe it is. Through marketing etc. Same story with the M models. Maybe 1% of owners know, or care, about where the engine was made. It's enough to know that it is a bespoke engine and what BMW marketing tells us. Same as with the watches. We feel they are exlusive and hand made, when they in fact use off the shelf mass produced movements. The customers still desire them, and they are still as good watches as before you knew they used mass produced components... Last edited by Boss330; 11-18-2013 at 04:34 PM.. |
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11-18-2013, 04:26 PM | #25 | |
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11-18-2013, 04:56 PM | #26 | ||
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3kg increase in weight is not a legitimate negative to hydraulic over electric. and yes, I think the below statement is idiotic and disingenuous... Quote:
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11-18-2013, 05:26 PM | #27 | |
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And they did not ADD electric steering, the F30 is designed with electric steering. They would have had to add hydraulic steering to replace the electric steering (as also was clear from the transcript of the article). If you are serious about saving weight, 3kg saved is better than 3kg gained. Isolated, 3kg is not much. Agreed. But if they don't see a major downside it's a win-win situation. save weight, save fuel and get a good steering (like Porsche has done as well). If you want to shed 80kg, then 3kg here and 3kg there makes up for the total weight saved. After all it seems like it's a multiple 3-10kg savings all over the car that is responsible for the total weight loss. Sure, those 3kg wouldn't make a lot of difference. And that is exactly what Biermann says in the interview as well! Weight savings was ONE factor, the budgetary reasons seems to have been the main reasons. Biermann doesn't try to hide that at all. In fact he even goes to the length of explaining that they decided to use budgetary funds on weight losses rather than develop a dedicated hydraulic steering specificially for the F8x models. Last edited by Boss330; 11-18-2013 at 05:39 PM.. |
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11-18-2013, 05:32 PM | #28 |
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I do think it is sad that the engines do not have special manufacturing anymore however, I hope that this perceived sacrifice in bragging rights and lower production cost will result in lower MSRPs (relatively speaking); especially considering new expensive CFRP technology. I mean, a CFRP drive shaft cant be cheap! So if BMW is saving money for this kind of thing by putting the engine manufacturing under the same house as the rest of the car then I can forgive them. :-)
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11-18-2013, 05:42 PM | #29 | |
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You win some and you loose some The engine manufacturing isn't as special as it used to be, but the car has more exotic parts in other areas instead. |
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11-18-2013, 05:59 PM | #30 |
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11-18-2013, 06:26 PM | #32 |
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you can just tell this M4 was made in a different era than the E9x. a lot of talk about trying to get it better fuel economy. at the end of the day they are a business, so not much they can do but cost cut and make better MPG engines.
honestly though putting aside my dislike for the new engine. i really don't like to here the DCT has longer ratios for fuel saving reasons. |
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11-18-2013, 06:26 PM | #33 |
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Sometimes I wonder how efficient it is to spend extra 5000 dollars on carbon fiber pieces that provide same weight loss benefit than what it would take to downsize the battery and get rid of the spare wheel and tire? How much of these are really just marketing bullet points?
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11-18-2013, 06:40 PM | #34 | |
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And I'm quite confident that they didn't "forget" the battery either... |
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11-18-2013, 06:42 PM | #35 | |
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11-18-2013, 06:44 PM | #36 |
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i was thinking about that. turbo engine don't like short ratios is the theory right ?
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11-18-2013, 06:50 PM | #37 |
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I'm sure others can explain that better than me, but a engine with a broad power band can have a long gear ratio to "work against" as it builds speed. With a very short gear ratio it would use the "wrong end" of the rev range. A Ferrari 458 needs closer and shorter ratios to maximize it's power band, a turbo engine wants longer ratios to take the most advantage of it's torque/power band.
Maybe Swamp2 could explain a bit better, have to get some sleep over here now... |
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11-18-2013, 07:33 PM | #38 | |
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a turbo motor (or big v8 like a z06 for example) doesn't need to use short gearing to get torque to the ground. they also have wider powerbands which make more torque and power at lower RPMs than something like the s65. the z06 can hit 60 mph in first gear it is more the e9x m3 that is the anomaly as its gearing with DCT is very short.
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11-18-2013, 07:40 PM | #39 | |
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11-18-2013, 07:52 PM | #40 |
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11-18-2013, 08:04 PM | #41 | |
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It's a bit like suggesting Ferrari is lower quality because it is owned by Fiat. |
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11-18-2013, 08:22 PM | #42 | |
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And the whole hydraulic vs. electric steering debate will go on forever. We all know the main reason for BMW going for electric is because of petrol consumption, but there's absolutely no way we can knock it until we've driven it for ourselves. Porsche seems to have done it really well with the 991 GT3, whose to say that BMW can't do it with, arguably, one of their most special cars?
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11-18-2013, 09:44 PM | #43 |
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Z06 has nice long gears. I remember cruising at 75mph at about 1800 RPMs, got about 25 miles per gallon. Basically you're just idling. That motor was straight from God.
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11-18-2013, 09:59 PM | #44 | |
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