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      03-14-2017, 09:12 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRACK M4STER View Post
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Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW View Post
Sad, but hopefully the new head of design will have BMW move away from their conservatism and create more exciting looking models...
I remember 10 years ago with the ground breaking design of the E65 7-series and E60 5-series and loyalists were critical of the revolutionary flame surfacing of Chris Bangle. The "Bangle-butt" which has now been copied by many manufacturers has now been abandoned by BMW with a more evolutionary design but now BMW has now been met with "design too conservative, too boring, etc."

Can't win with you guys.
Hit the nail on the head.

Bmw design was roundly trashed across the board except for the m cars and 3 series at that time. People like us were the most critical.

When these van hooyedonk and karim designs took hold it was a revelation to everyone. Mostly because they are very smooth and very proportional designs that keep the bmw heritage intact.

Now suddenly the designs aren't extreme enough.

It's just a reflection of a changing customer base

I'm assuming right now most of the customer base wants more vents, more wings and less subtle distinction. Underbody neon glow would really make everyone happy.

It will be interesting to see if the new cars will go into a more "extreme" direction or somewhere new that we haven't seen yet.

Mercedes seems to be nailing subtle distinction really well right now. Of course the current crop are Basicly derivatives of a core karim Habib design before he left. Interesting how that works out. Their only failure is the new e class against the 5 series which is a total home run.
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      03-14-2017, 09:18 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by ///M1990 View Post
This is the first step for BWM to start producing "The ultimate driving machine" again
That would requre the head of BMW Steering Design and Technology to leave the company.





He only keeps getting promoted. I'm serious.
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      03-14-2017, 09:25 PM   #245
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That would requre the head of BMW Steering Design and Technology to leave the company.





Truer words have never been spoken. Just decided to replace two turbos on my 2008 335i. Would have bought a new one, but the steering feel in the F30 is just so awful.
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      03-14-2017, 09:37 PM   #246
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don't let the door hit you in the ass. his influence was terrible.
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      03-14-2017, 10:47 PM   #247
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He only keeps getting promoted. I'm serious.
I know...I know....SAD.

There's a very depressing Car and Driver article interviewing him. Essentially, he says numb electric steering that lacks feel is what the "mass public" wants, so that's what BMW will produce.

Love my M3, hate the steering.







(......watch me get bashed for this post .... I know it's coming .... bring it on!)
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      03-15-2017, 12:06 AM   #248
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Left the copy machine on

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Originally Posted by Tengocity View Post
Any coincidence that Mercedes have upped their game in exterior design since he left them, and BMW have gone backwards?
Are you kidding?! I'm a lifelong car guy and I cannot tell C, E, S-class apart. Mercedes-Benz followed the Audi school of design by leaving the copy machine on.

I will give them credit for sleeker designs which translates into a more contemporary feel which is a departure from the boxy/chiseled designs for the past 10 years.

But, for the most part there is NO IDENTITY to each model. And it's reflected in S-Class owner's frustrations that their $100K+ ride is mistaken for an entry level C-Class. Google it.
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      03-15-2017, 12:56 AM   #249
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Watershed Moment

BMW is at a critical cross road right now. There is great consideration and debate within its leadership about the direction to take in design, technology and product substance. The automotive landscape around them and the client base is rapidly changing and they need to quickly decide whether to chase the future which could look very different or look at the present where it is running stale. BMW seems to now have an idea where it needs to be. Let's hope they made the right call.

In terms of design; a designer is greatly influenced by thier brief. I believe that leadership of BMW played a big role in creating the conservative range we have today and they have a hand in the blame for what we have.

Karim leaving could be a good thing and fresh start for both BMW and himself as it allows both to readdress shortcomings and move forward with fresh thinking.
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      03-15-2017, 01:24 AM   #250
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At least Infiniti will have a shot at life ahaha
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      03-15-2017, 02:57 AM   #251
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Exclamation

I have mad respect for him. He was super lucky to be able to study under AVH something I'm sure he'll undoubtably cherish as he moves forward. Nothing but the best to Karim!

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At least Infiniti will have a shot at life...
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      03-15-2017, 04:17 AM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRACK M4STER View Post
Are you kidding?! I'm a lifelong car guy and I cannot tell C, E, S-class apart. Mercedes-Benz followed the Audi school of design by leaving the copy machine on.

I will give them credit for sleeker designs which translates into a more contemporary feel which is a departure from the boxy/chiseled designs for the past 10 years.

But, for the most part there is NO IDENTITY to each model. And it's reflected in S-Class owner's frustrations that their $100K+ ride is mistaken for an entry level C-Class. Google it.
That is as always, and the same with BMW and the 3,5,7 series.

However, Mercedes have a much better looking range of vehicles now since Habib left them than they have for the previous 10-15 years. Whereas I'd say BMW have stood still at best on the design front. Not that BMW are bad, just that all they've done is finesse trinkety things like grille size, rather than really move and evolve the design language.

The Merc saloons may not be all that exciting but the AMG-GT is very smart looking, and completely modern and distinctive. Some are dogs, like the GLE, but the GLC knocks the 3 out of the park.

What I give Mercedes credit for is giving their cars a really consistent family premium look, both inside and out, even if they're not to my particular tastes.
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      03-15-2017, 04:28 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
He helped tone down the "flame surfacing" and the M5 and M6 (as well as the respective 5 and 6 series) look a lot better than the previous gen, especially the M6. The current 3 series looks more aggressive, and to me the M3 sedan looks better than the E90 M3 sedan. The E92 coupe and M3 coupe actually to me look better than the F32 4 series and F82 M4, the fastback look is too stretched out.

So Habib has had some hits and misses. But, his best known hit will be the M2.
I'm pretty sure the design of the 5 and 6 you refer to were signed off long before Habib had anything to do with them.

Habib cars are:

current X5 - it's ok, but most people agree it's predecessor is a better looking car.

2AT - the ugliest BMW ever!

new 7 series - brilliant engineering let down by the least interesting design evolution I can ever recall. Jag and Maserati can make brilliant looking big saloons (sedans to you), so I don't see why BMW can't.

new 5 series - looks ok, but again, the design doesn't reflect the brilliance of the engineering and technology underneath. Looking at it doesn't make me want one. Reading the reviews and spec sheets does.

New X1 - it's fine. much better than the previous one, which is the second ugliest BMW ever, so not much of an achievement.

Will be interesting to see what the new X3 and next 3 series look like as they'll have been done under him.
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      03-15-2017, 11:22 AM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRACK M4STER
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW View Post
Sad, but hopefully the new head of design will have BMW move away from their conservatism and create more exciting looking models...
I remember 10 years ago with the ground breaking design of the E65 7-series and E60 5-series and loyalists were critical of the revolutionary flame surfacing of Chris Bangle. The "Bangle-butt" which has now been copied by many manufacturers has now been abandoned by BMW with a more evolutionary design but now BMW has now been met with "design too conservative, too boring, etc."

Can't win with you guys.
Provocative designs doesn't mean good designs. Chris bangle is a provocative designer with his flame surfacing and over the top shapes, which all can see, haven't aged very well. His influence was undeniable with other designers and resulted in the over styled far so we often see today (lots of complex shapes, sharp angles, character lines etc). Compare his designs to those of Paul Bracq and you can see who understood what the quintessential BMW look is. Mercedes have realised that simple design paired with beautiful detailing and proportions are the key to a great design. Their future cars will embody that philosophy that used to be BMW's...
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      03-15-2017, 11:46 AM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tengocity View Post
Any coincidence that Mercedes have upped their game in exterior design since he left them, and BMW have gone backwards?
Totally agree
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      03-15-2017, 12:05 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by ShahiniBmw View Post
At least Infiniti will have a shot at life ahaha
Hahaha infinity will never have a shot
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      03-15-2017, 12:39 PM   #257
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You know something is wrong whe BMW stop having flare fenders...

Glad hes gone
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      03-15-2017, 03:12 PM   #258
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Good riddance
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      03-17-2017, 04:53 PM   #259
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I suppose that since BMW thinks that we'll have level 5 self driving cars by 2021, steering feel won't matter since no one will actually have to steer!

Aha! That's their master plan!
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      03-17-2017, 08:55 PM   #260
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Don't know where we are going but I am happy that this guys is gone. His hood lines, huge nostrils and huge headlamps forced me wait.
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      03-20-2017, 12:37 AM   #261
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I hope he helps Infiniti build an M2 killer. More competition means better cars. I was at Infiniti's dealership yesterday to help out a buddy get a new car.
I couldn't believe how big and impractical the Q60s was.

I mean, if the wheelbase has more than 110in, I'd expect the backseat to be usable. It isn't comfortable at all. I just can't believe how impractical the car is given its size.

It has a sweet looking roofline, ... nice and low... but no legroom at all. It's frustrating
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      03-20-2017, 09:05 PM   #262
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShahiniBmw View Post
At least Infiniti will have a shot at life ahaha
Hahaha infinity will never have a shot
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