Buying "demo" cars? Mine turned out to be an M driving school car and keeps breaking

[JJsuh]

I had a similar issue on a car with n63tu engine. Engine went into limp mode with misfiring. Dealer replaced all spark plugs and I would still get shuddering on highway speed over takes. Eventually they replaced all coils and it fixed the problem.

Hope you also get your issues solved.

[jdgamble]

I was under the impression that they had to inform you it was a PDC car. I would call BMWNA and ask that question first. Saying it’s a demo with occasional track use is not the same thing. If that fails, be diplomatic and tell the original dealership you want them to 100% fix the car.

BTW... did you buy from Pacific BMW? I hope not. They are total crooks. If so, and you have to get it fixed, do not let them do it.

[NickyC]

It's pretty unfair they're not upfront about the lives these cars have led. Upfront, massive discounts, only fair way to go.

Sorry OP, hope it works out for you.

[aliiin]

For those that say they wouldn't bat an eye buying a used M school car because they are meticulously maintained, what is meticulously maintained? I mean they probably just follow the scheduled maintenance like any other person that owns an M would?

I feel like 10k track miles does not equal 10k street driven/spirited driving miles. There is definitely more wear and tear if a car being tracked is constantly bouncing off the rev limiter, etc.

On top of that, CPO is not offered.

Anyways, I'm sorry your car has broken down 3 times in 7 days. That really sucks and shouldn't happen with a car with 11k miles. I hope the dealer rectifies this in some way.

[s55jesus]

Those cars are being dumped right now at dealers and especially Century West BMW. Comp pack w/ 437m wheels, carbon ceramic brakes, and wood trim

They got like 11 of those for sale right now.

I'm actually looking for a 2018 comp with CCB too.

Should've taken a closer look before purchasing OP. All those cars were 100% used for M Performance school and have been pretty much beaten to death. Also, they have stupid drivers side bolster wear for a car with less than 10k miles.

[GKay]

IDK about the other classes but at the 1 day M school we hardly drove the M4 except in the wet skid pads. The M2 and M5 though....

[horsepower_and_hounds]

Ok let me add $.02

1. Does the car have CCB's? If it is an option PDC always uses cars equipped with them for performance reasons and to promote selling them as an option. If no CCB's then no PDC if it was an option at time of manufacture

3. As Mr Breeze noted you can sometimes tell from where they are first registered, they use the same corporate registration points.

3. They code the PDC cars a certain way and charge a certain amount for the cars so if you bought it from a authorized BMW dealer they are required by law to inform you upon asking if it was a corporate/PDC car. Just go to them and request a history print out on the car. if they tell you "we can't cause it has customer personal info on the history" then it was owned by a person. They can always black out the info on the print out. Request it.... you are entitled then post it here.

4. Until you have proof then I would not worry about it. if they miss advertised the car then you have legal grounds. If not you probably have a car that is having some growing pains.

5. As GKay noted, the PDC has been using the M2 and M5 for most of their skills sessions but to their strong points. Reasons are lengthy so I am not going to write about it,

Just do your foot work as i mentioned above and reply back...... then you have facts not hearsay. The PDC is a great group and they do not try and pull shit over on you...they have too much at stake

[NoSuchSol]

Originally Posted by eff80m3

Those cars are being dumped right now at dealers and especially Century West BMW. Comp pack w/ 437m wheels, carbon ceramic brakes, and wood trim

They got like 11 of those for sale right now.

I'm actually looking for a 2018 comp with CCB too.

Should've taken a closer look before purchasing OP. All those cars were 100% used for M Performance school and have been pretty much beaten to death. Also, they have stupid drivers side bolster wear for a car with less than 10k miles.

They have a couple Smoked Topaz that look pretty good, but it is strange that they all have the same packages on them. When I did the track day, I don't remember the trim type in the cars but I do remember thinking they were the standard trim due to the wheels. Hmm...

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

meticulously maintained

theres a reason they are not CPO

[jdgamble]

I just called Century West and asked if they are all PDC cars. The guy said yes, but then said he would check history for me. The spec (CCB, 437, full leather, exec) is always the same on these cars.

OP - If they didn’t tell you, I would really push BMWNA. If they did tell you and you weren’t paying attention, take this as a lesson learned. I’m sure they can fix it, but it sucks you are in this situation.

[c0nrad]

you guys really think that performance center cars take a serious beating?

a press car would probably sketch me out, but it's naive to think most people are taking better care of these cars during a lease or normal ownership

modding the car with bolt ons, tunes, running higher boost, etc probably puts way more wear on the car then a person using it in a semi controlled track environment with instructors

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by c0nrad

you guys really think that performance center cars take a serious beating?

a press car would probably sketch me out, but it's naive to think most people are taking better care of these cars during a lease or normal ownership

modding the car with bolt ons, tunes, running higher boost, etc probably puts way more wear on the car then a person using it in a semi controlled track environment with instructors

Have you been to Performance Center event? We thrashed the cars in 110 degree Palm Springs heat. Think everyone knows how to use DCT properly or listen to the instructor instructions to keep DSC on? Yea right. Then at the end the instructors pretty much just drifted all the cars around the track for show. Repeat for several weekends in a row. Some guy even broke a M6's driveshaft during the drag races.

[c0nrad]

Originally Posted by InTheseUncertainTimes

Have you been to Performance Center event? We thrashed the cars in 110 degree Palm Springs heat. Think everyone knows how to use DCT properly or listen to the instructor instructions to keep DSC on? Yea right. Then at the end the instructors pretty much just drifted all the cars around the track for show. Repeat for several weekends in a row. Some guy even broke a M6's driveshaft during the drag races.

never been. in terms of heat, I wouldn't worry with this car. DSC settings shouldn't affect anything either, just consumables... same with drifting. can't money shift a DCT so I think that would be fine too.

i'm not recommending buying one, but this seems more like an isolated incident

[MyNameIsNotSure]

Originally Posted by eff80m3

Those cars are being dumped right now at dealers and especially Century West BMW. Comp pack w/ 437m wheels, carbon ceramic brakes, and wood trim

They got like 11 of those for sale right now.

I'm actually looking for a 2018 comp with CCB too.

Should've taken a closer look before purchasing OP. All those cars were 100% used for M Performance school and have been pretty much beaten to death. Also, they have stupid drivers side bolster wear for a car with less than 10k miles.

Yep, CCB's and worn side bolsters, I now know the telltale signs. Wish I knew before I bought.

Originally Posted by horsepower_and_hounds

Ok let me add $.02

1. Does the car have CCB's? If it is an option PDC always uses cars equipped with them for performance reasons and to promote selling them as an option. If no CCB's then no PDC if it was an option at time of manufacture

3. As Mr Breeze noted you can sometimes tell from where they are first registered, they use the same corporate registration points.

3. They code the PDC cars a certain way and charge a certain amount for the cars so if you bought it from a authorized BMW dealer they are required by law to inform you upon asking if it was a corporate/PDC car. Just go to them and request a history print out on the car. if they tell you "we can't cause it has customer personal info on the history" then it was owned by a person. They can always black out the info on the print out. Request it.... you are entitled then post it here.

4. Until you have proof then I would not worry about it. if they miss advertised the car then you have legal grounds. If not you probably have a car that is having some growing pains.

5. As GKay noted, the PDC has been using the M2 and M5 for most of their skills sessions but to their strong points. Reasons are lengthy so I am not going to write about it,

Just do your foot work as i mentioned above and reply back...... then you have facts not hearsay. The PDC is a great group and they do not try and pull shit over on you...they have too much at stake

Thanks for the info, to answer:
1. Yep it has CCB's.
2. How would I find where it was first registered? Is this something I can ask the dealer? (EDIT: asked the dealer and he said they don't know that information, he said that BMW owned the car and BMW doesn't tell them registration details plus they might not have registered anywhere due to having manufacturer plates...)
3. It was not owned by a person they said it was owned by BMW NA as a demo car.

Originally Posted by c0nrad

never been. in terms of heat, I wouldn't worry with this car. DSC settings shouldn't affect anything either, just consumables... same with drifting. can't money shift a DCT so I think that would be fine too.

i'm not recommending buying one, but this seems more like an isolated incident

Regardless though it's essentially like buying a rental (except I would think worse), and those have to be legally disclosed as rentals on the carfax. I'd think some kind of honest disclosure should be standard in this case as well. I'd hardly call it an isolated incident, like the guy above mentioned there's 11 of these for sale in SoCal right now (at full price!).

[MyNameIsNotSure]

Talked to the director of the dealership today, interesting talk. Initially he told me they can't take the car back because it's not their fault that a disclosure wasn't made and that they didn't know. Said that BMW NA doesn't tell them that it's a driving school car when they receive it (!). He mentioned that I signed the disclosure form saying it's a demo and sent me a copy of it:




No mention of "track" or "performance driving school" anywhere. It says "demo" on one page and "driving program" on another. Neither of those would've ever made me think it was a track driving school car, especially when I was initially told it was an exec lease car.

After a lengthy talk explaining my displeasure he seemed open to taking the car back if I buy another car from them. They do have one there but it's not my ideal choice, it's an (extremely overpriced) M4 and I wanted an M3. Maybe if they sell it to me at a fair price closer to market value I'd consider it but apparently that one is a demo car too.....

Here's the fun part, he assured me that that (potential replacement) M4 is not a driving school car because BMW discloses that to them. Well wait... just a minute ago you were telling me that they don't disclose that to you! He did some backpedaling and got vague and used "driving program" a lot. He said he would look into it in further detail to make 100% sure and will get back to me tomorrow.

Regardless, I do believe that the M4 wasn't a driving school track car, I sat in it and it looked in much better shape than the M3 I bought. Plus it doesn't have the CCB's. Maybe this one actually was an exec lease or something. I'm just really not sure I want an M4, was so in love with a YMB M3 and always wanted one.. but at this point this looks like maybe the easy way out. Any thoughts?

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by c0nrad

never been. in terms of heat, I wouldn't worry with this car. DSC settings shouldn't affect anything either, just consumables... same with drifting. can't money shift a DCT so I think that would be fine too.

i'm not recommending buying one, but this seems more like an isolated incident

Not isolated incident. BMW has been pulling this shit since the beginning.
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1403326

[cosmok]

Forgive my ignorance. What is a CCB?

[aliiin]

Originally Posted by cosmok

Forgive my ignorance. What is a CCB?

Carbon Ceramic Brakes

[Mr. Hankey]

Gawd. Hope this works out for you OP. Those cars get abused that those events and you have people of all skill levels driving those things. M5 blew a tranny at one of the events I attended right in front of me at speed and fortunately the driver knew what he was doing and saved it from going off track down hill off camber getting into it off the apex. And someone bought it thinking it was an "executive demo"...

This is one of those things that BMWNA should bring these cars back from the performance center, then go through them and do the entire CPO process themselves. Usually the dealer is footing the bill to refurb a used car back to the specs required by BMW to CPO the car so they (the dealer) decide whether to CPO it or not and they need to put the money into the car to get it to CPO level spec, but may not get that back out of the car when they sell it, so CPO is a big thing for a dealer to do...no reason then that BMWNA couldn't do that universally with these cars before they hit dealers and with the CPO for the purchaser that is literally an 'extended warranty' and a solid "we got your back" from BMW to buy one of these cars, rather than just dumping them out to the masses and turning their heads the other direction when these cars have problems. Sure they will have more problems than a non performance center car but labor and parts are at cost for BMWNA, and they sure as hell aren't for us...

Hopefully they get either the car sorted out for you or rectify it. Squeaks and rattles inside pretty much the norm though LOL...

[ChuMpion3]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNotSure

Talked to the director of the dealership today, interesting talk. Initially he told me they can't take the car back because it's not their fault that a disclosure wasn't made and that they didn't know. Said that BMW NA doesn't tell them that it's a driving school car when they receive it (!). He mentioned that I signed the disclosure form saying it's a demo and sent me a copy of it:




No mention of "track" or "performance driving school" anywhere. It says "demo" on one page and "driving program" on another. Neither of those would've ever made me think it was a track driving school car, especially when I was initially told it was an exec lease car.

After a lengthy talk explaining my displeasure he seemed open to taking the car back if I buy another car from them. They do have one there but it's not my ideal choice, it's an (extremely overpriced) M4 and I wanted an M3. Maybe if they sell it to me at a fair price closer to market value I'd consider it but apparently that one is a demo car too.....

Here's the fun part, he assured me that that (potential replacement) M4 is not a driving school car because BMW discloses that to them. Well wait... just a minute ago you were telling me that they don't disclose that to you! He did some backpedaling and got vague and used "driving program" a lot. He said he would look into it in further detail to make 100% sure and will get back to me tomorrow.

Regardless, I do believe that the M4 wasn't a driving school track car, I sat in it and it looked in much better shape than the M3 I bought. Plus it doesn't have the CCB's. Maybe this one actually was an exec lease or something. I'm just really not sure I want an M4, was so in love with a YMB M3 and always wanted one.. but at this point this looks like maybe the easy way out. Any thoughts?

I’d talk to BMWNA. You’re dead with what you signed and your only hope is that they told you something different when you asked about it before signing, assuming that is what happened. If that is the case, they should try to make it right outside of you buying a different car or settling for a car you will always question.

[IVM3]

If you really want an M3, I would try to negotiate a full refund less $1000 to put as a deposit towards a future purchase from the dealer. Let them know you'd rather wait for the right M3 rather than settle for an M4. That assumes you aren't in a rush to get into a new car... if they agree, worst case you are out $1000 if you find another car elsewhere. Or as others said, call BMWNA and see if they can help. However, that document you signed puts you in a bad negotiating position other than the fact that you've had so many issues in the first week. If you decide to keep the car, I'd look into a third party extended warranty.

[9M71]

Don't settle.