Carsten Pries of BMW M: the M3/M4 S55 engine is an animal with shocking capabilities

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

I agree. It is a marketing site that is run by people that work for / tied to BMW.

I also was asked for pics from the Houston auto show. Which I provided, because I wanted to share them with my fellow BMW enthusiasts.

That said, I appreciate the fast flow of info here.

- polls and threads for test marketing products - M2 to have I4 or I6 ?
- test marketing photos - anyone recall the US response to the M135 on this site... it was roundly rejected.... and guess what... now we get a 2 series coupe for the US market....
- test marketing of design cues
- enginneering and design conceps discussed/promoted here... (CF driveshaft.. Electronic steering)


All controlled and monitored and metered by the company.

Personally.. I think it's BRILLIANT! And yes... I agree.. I appreciate finding the info here first.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Sapper_M3

Yeah, it's certainly annoying.

I will caveat this though by saying that I'm certainly no expert. My information on these "hidden" lines of code intended to cause limp modes by BMW is based purely on discussion on these boards. So definitely take anything technical I've said with a grain of salt. With that said, it is true that piggyback tuned M5s and M6s are seeing consistent limp mode activation when doing drag race/roll race events. So BMW has definitely continued to up their game when it comes to protecting their software.

I'm betting the new M3/M4 will be plenty of fun out of the box though (especially if they end up being significantly underrated), and the money draw of M3/M4 tuning will hopefully get us a crack in a reasonable amount of time.

Is this also with tunes from AC Schnitzer and Hartge? At least ACS has close ties with BMW and is a reputed tuner in Germany...

[Sapper_M3]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Is this also with tunes from AC Schnitzer and Hartge? At least ACS has close ties with BMW and is a reputed tuner in Germany...

I honestly don't know enough to comment with that level of detail. Boss, I figured you would know way more than I do on this topic! A quick post (or probably search) on the M5 forum would probably give you an answer.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Sapper_M3

I honestly don't know enough to comment with that level of detail. Boss, I figured you would know way more than I do on this topic! A quick post (or probably search) on the M5 forum would probably give you an answer.

I have not personally heard of anyone having those issues with a ACS tune

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by cs4444

Yes it is Amazing...but ultimately Porsche belongs to VW now. Its also amazing how a comparable Porsche costs A LOT more than a comparable performing BMW, and Porsche will nickle and dime you for options like no other. M4 Starts around 65K, a 911 S starts a 98K, X5M $90K, Cayenne turbo S $148K. M5/M6 GC $90/115K, Panamara Turbo/S $140/180K. I'm sure if BMW tacked on an additional $40 to $50K onto its M cars they would be pretty awesome too...but so much less obtainable.. Also the "non enthusiast" porches are still more stiffly sprung than anything else in their classes, giving the sporty feel, but im sure the "non enthusiasts" put up with it for the badge.

Hmmm, very similar to how Ford can provide comprable performance to an 80k m3 for 30k. Or how Chevy can make a c7 for 55k that runs close to a 991S (and will beat any bmw) but it's not as good of a car and same goes for bmw in that regard. I won't even mention the GTR and it's price to performance.
Sorry but being as fast in a straight or close doesn't make them comprable as far as driving dynamics, quality etc etc etc. Plus production numbers play a big part in price so price to performance means very little. A 991 GT3 is a better performing than a 458 at 175 vs 350k, does that mean the f car isn't worth the money? A lot of times with porsche and ferrari it's the things you can't quantify that make them worth their price.

[krnnerdboy]

Excited!

[imserious]

Originally Posted by RealStig

Corvette has 630 lb/ft torque and weighs less than the m4. Dont get me wrong, I am super excited about the new car but i think the 100 or so lb/ft torque increase is just a bit over rated.

I am more excited about the interior and overall tech improvements like the HUD.

Base corvette does not have 630 lb/ft torque. It has 465 torque & 460 hp. I'm not saying it is going to be faster than the corvette. I'm saying that with ~ 400 lb/torque & 400+ hp the new m3 is going to drive more like a punchy corvette than the high strung m3s we have been accustomed to. best comparison is probably a beefed up 1M. you'll remember people tended to like the 1M.

it's going to be different, but i find it hard to believe that lots of people are going to complain about an m3 with e46 weight and 400 lb/ft torque @ < 2000rpms.

[bmwluvr24]

Originally Posted by imserious

Base corvette does not have 630 lb/ft torque. It has 465 torque & 460 hp. I'm not saying it is going to be faster than the corvette. I'm saying that with ~ 400 lb/torque & 400+ hp the new m3 is going to drive more like a punchy corvette than the high strung m3s we have been accustomed to. best comparison is probably a beefed up 1M. you'll remember people tended to like the 1M.

it's going to be different, but i find it hard to believe that lots of people are going to complain about an m3 with e46 weight and 400 lb/ft torque @ < 2000rpms.

And also, good luck touching a C7 for anything less than $70k right now which puts it right alongside the M3/M4 price wise. I don't care what the base price is, no one is getting them for $55k. I agree with your statement completely. I am definitely not going to complain about a car that is putting up the spec numbers we are being shown.

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Hmmm, very similar to how Ford can provide comprable performance to an 80k m3 for 30k. Or how Chevy can make a c7 for 55k that runs close to a 991S (and will beat any bmw) but it's not as good of a car and same goes for bmw in that regard. I won't even mention the GTR and it's price to performance.
Sorry but being as fast in a straight or close doesn't make them comprable as far as driving dynamics, quality etc etc etc. Plus production numbers play a big part in price so price to performance means very little. A 991 GT3 is a better performing than a 458 at 175 vs 350k, does that mean the f car isn't worth the money? A lot of times with porsche and ferrari it's the things you can't quantify that make them worth their price.

I agree with your points in principle, but you're exaggerating your numbers for the base prices you're comparing (M3's don't start at 80k). also, the Vette is faster than the 991S on a track (quit clinging to the tenth-of-a-second difference that the Porsche has on straight line acceleration because of the PDK). and you'll be eating your words if the F80 - a nice sized sedan - turns out to be faster in a straight line than the 991S.

[pkimM3r]

Bmw owners praising porsches new models while porsche owners are doing the same thing we are about the new model LOL.

I guess feel has a lot to do with it but a driver should adapt to any car. And ill take an e46/e90/f80 over an e30 anyday.

[Chill72]

Originally Posted by phishhead24

There is an Aerosmith song that fits the occasion. I think the hook is something like this: "same old song and, same old song and dance.....my friend." Nothing changes. I am all for the sharing of information, but the members who come to the forum of a car that has not been released yet and tell us that this car is not as good as brand x, is annoying as hell. I am not on any other forum talking about the cars that they love and how I would rather have the new M3. What the fuck is the point and how the hell do you know anything other than the spec sheet? Also, I would love to see how successful any car manufacturer is without marketing. I, for one, love the comments that are coming out, but I don't go beating my dick to them.

This. Who has time to pollute other forums anyway?

[zzzmmm]

Originally Posted by Real Deal

"the engine has shocking capabilities" imagine what tuners will be able to do with it.

well us M5s are still waiting...........fingers crossed.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by cs4444

Yes it is Amazing...but ultimately Porsche belongs to VW now.

It came very close to be the other way around though. Porsche had enough cash to buy VW .

IIRC, it all came down to a show down between the two cousins Piech and Porsche .

[giorgioarmani]

Shocking? Overstatement of the millenium.

[RealStig]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

So true. Speaking of marketing engine.. as far as I am concerned.. this ENTIRE site is a BMW marketing engine. " Spy shots".... private interviews with M personnel... Moderators that know an inordinate amont of details about upcoming products... moderators that reach out to indivuduals that attend private events to have them do writeups ( i should know.. I was one).. etc.. oh... and did I mention the " spy shots" from 5 feet away....

Anyone tired of marketing should just stop checking this site, period.

Did not know this site was run by/tied to BMW.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by RealStig

Did not know this site was run by/tied to BMW.

With the amount of coverage we get here, and the fact that BMW insiders constantly post and fill us in on the haps.......yeah, I'm not surprised. I don't know that it started that way, but it has definitely evolved into the go-to site for BMW news. Bimmerpost is the nexus for E9X/F8X info much in the same way that E46Fanatics is the nexus for the E46 chassis. There are no two better sites IMHO.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Brosef

I agree with your points in principle, but you're exaggerating your numbers for the base prices you're comparing (M3's don't start at 80k). also, the Vette is faster than the 991S on a track (quit clinging to the tenth-of-a-second difference that the Porsche has on straight line acceleration because of the PDK). and you'll be eating your words if the F80 - a nice sized sedan - turns out to be faster in a straight line than the 991S.

Well, faster is faster. And lets not forget what car was still picked as the BETTER car. And I would damn hope 60 more hp, 140 lb ft of tq and the same weight would be faster on a track. Even out the power numbers and lets see where the vette comes out.
And I expect the m3/4 to be close in a straight, after all it's got likely 50-60 hp more and 100 tq more. On the track the m3/4 will not stand a chance especially seeing as I doubt it will even break 7:50 on the ring.
I won't be eating any words, because there are plenty of fast sedans out there. Lets not forget a panamera turbo a schools everything bmw on the track being 4600 lbs and it's also faster than a dedicated track car in the m3 gts in a straight by a lot. And if the vette needs 60 hp and 140 tq more to keep pace I'm sure the m3/4 will need at least that and certainly won't put down the track numbers. Plus the 991.2 will be out soon too.
The m3/4s performance will hinge on its true weight and how underpowered it is.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by RealStig

Did not know this site was run by/tied to BMW.

Officially... it's not....

Unofficially.. based on my personal experiences and a peek behind the curtain..... I have zero doubt.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

With the amount of coverage we get here, and the fact that BMW insiders constantly post and fill us in on the haps.......yeah, I'm not surprised. I don't know that it started that way, but it has definitely evolved into the go-to site for BMW news. Bimmerpost is the nexus for E9X/F8X info much in the same way that E46Fanatics is the nexus for the E46 chassis. There are no two better sites IMHO.

I concur.

I maintain an E46 and have recently found the goodness that is E46 fanatics.

For the E30 M3, S14.net was the default best site.

note that both above are fully independent and cater to just one BMW model.

I agree that Bimmerpost has become the default site for E9x and E8x.

the E39 5 series is the oldest BMW model with a forum... the family of bimmerpost sites clearly caters to current BMW and future BMW models....

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Well, faster is faster. And lets not forget what car was still picked as the BETTER car. And I would damn hope 60 more hp, 140 lb ft of tq and the same weight would be faster on a track. Even out the power numbers and lets see where the vette comes out.
And I expect the m3/4 to be close in a straight, after all it's got likely 50-60 hp more and 100 tq more. On the track the m3/4 will not stand a chance especially seeing as I doubt it will even break 7:50 on the ring.
I won't be eating any words, because there are plenty of fast sedans out there. Lets not forget a panamera turbo a schools everything bmw on the track being 4600 lbs and it's also faster than a dedicated track car in the m3 gts in a straight by a lot. And if the vette needs 60 hp and 140 tq more to keep pace I'm sure the m3/4 will need at least that and certainly won't put down the track numbers. Plus the 991.2 will be out soon too.
The m3/4s performance will hinge on its true weight and how underpowered it is.

I think it's time to STOP comparing the Chevrolet Corvette and Porsche 911 to the M3/M4. The corvette is a 2-SEAT sportscar and the 911 is a 2+2. And both will probably be the 2nd car someone buys. The M3/M4 is a 4 seater and is most probably the ONLY car one will need with all the convenience of the 3/4 series (room in the back for children, lots of trunk space etc), but with ALMOST the same performance/handling (on the road if not on the track) as the Vette and 911.

The only fair comparisons to the M3/4 are the RS4 from Audi and C63 AMG from Mercedes Benz and we all know why the M3 is still a better car (Audi = understeer balance, Mercedes = no manual gearbox). GTR IMO is not in the same category because of small back seat (more a 2+2) and unrefined character (hard as rock suspension etc...).

Anyway, that's my 2 cents...

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Well, faster is faster. And lets not forget what car was still picked as the BETTER car. And I would damn hope 60 more hp, 140 lb ft of tq and the same weight would be faster on a track. Even out the power numbers and lets see where the vette comes out.
And I expect the m3/4 to be close in a straight, after all it's got likely 50-60 hp more and 100 tq more. On the track the m3/4 will not stand a chance especially seeing as I doubt it will even break 7:50 on the ring.
I won't be eating any words, because there are plenty of fast sedans out there. Lets not forget a panamera turbo a schools everything bmw on the track being 4600 lbs and it's also faster than a dedicated track car in the m3 gts in a straight by a lot. And if the vette needs 60 hp and 140 tq more to keep pace I'm sure the m3/4 will need at least that and certainly won't put down the track numbers. Plus the 991.2 will be out soon too.
The m3/4s performance will hinge on its true weight and how underpowered it is.

even out the power numbers? why would that be fair? the Vette pays for its extra power through the additional weight of the larger V8. why make it pay a penalty of less power but keep weight the same? pure idiocy. you can't accept the 991 for what it is. it's a great car, but it doesn't beat every car at everything.

and quit changing the metrics. you quoted the 991S as being faster than the Vette in acceleration, neglecting that the Vette is faster on a track. so, if the M3 turns out to be faster than the 991 in a straight line, give it its due praise. not only because it's way cheaper than the 991, and with quality that I would argue is 95% as good as the 991, but because it's also so much more practical that the 991 could never be compared in that department.

[SCOTT26]

Why should BMW M. Not have complete confidence in their all new BMW M3 and M4?
They knew what had to be done , they knew they had to progress and move the game on. This is a segment that is no longer lying still.

And the M3 and M4 embody this progress.