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      12-19-2013, 02:09 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice
Quote:
Originally Posted by WWM3 View Post
I can't stand how those who prefer older models are labeled biased or envious. Newer isn't always better. I could care less if a car looks "dated". I think there are designs from the past and the present that are appealing.

In this case, I think both cars look great.

Yeah dated does not mean worse.

Dated:



Modern:
I agree, I said the E90 was starting to look dated but I didn't really mean it as a bad thing. I just think the F80 is so much more exciting that it makes the E90 look almost dull or muted in comparison.

"In comparison" being the key phrase, I still think my E92 is a ridiculously sexy car and I can't believe I'm lucky enough to own it.
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      12-19-2013, 02:17 AM   #134
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      12-19-2013, 02:46 AM   #135
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@ Ferrari engine pictures. We're talking about the nice girl next door and someone comes up with Sofia Loren vs Adriana Lima lol.

They both do look great. (In their days) About the cars:E90 M3 lookswise da bomb for its days(and still nice, it's the weight and the soft midrange response why I got rid of her...)

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      12-19-2013, 02:58 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Earl
I have read every single post in this thread and have realized something very interesting:

* More than 99% of the people who liked the new car currently do NOT own an M3.
* Almost not a single person who currently owns an M3 liked the new car over the old one (except one person).

(I completely apologize for this because I know how this is going to sound) I genuinely think that we should have a way of distinguishing people who come here to just to post, who will probably never not even test drive an M3 let alone buy one from the ones who will be able to afford the car. On top of that, I "wish" we had a way for putting more emphasis on the opinions of people who currently do own an M3. I think what they have to say about the new car is more important than someone who has no intentions to own it.

I think if we had a cut and dry distinction people these two groups of people, you'd see a major shift in perspective and opinion on the new car which could raise some eyebrows in BMW.

A lot of similar comments were seen all over the web in 2006 and all those "opinionated" arm chair theorists disappeared soon after E9X was released and continued to drive whatever it was they were driving. Maybe less than 1% of the participants in these threads ended up buying the car and for all intents and purposes, I could care less what those other people think (and neither should BMW unless they want it to look like everyone likes their car).
You have no idea what cars the people who like the F80/82 have owned prior to their current car, and assumptions only make you look silly in the end. Just because some of us no longer own our M3's - by choice - doesn't invalidate what we have to say. It's quite a preposterous and arrogant statement to suggest that those here who will never own an ///M shouldn't be able to provide/share their perspective(s). After all, as car 'enthusiasts', we comment all day long about cars we don't own, never intend to own or cannot afford, and I'm sure you were adding your input about BMW's and/or ///M cars long before you actually owned one as well. Pointing your nose at a 45 degree angle doesn't make your opinion worth more than anybody else's.
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      12-19-2013, 03:58 AM   #137
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I would rather the engine of F80 with 6 cilynders without turbocharged
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      12-19-2013, 08:47 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Earl View Post
I could have an opinion about all of the different types of BMWs and post in all sorts of forums here, but I don't. I drive an M3, I am considering buying the new M3, so I only post in E9X and F8X M3 forums. I don't go and post in the 335 forum. I could go to the 335 forum and say how boring the engine is and how the car hasn't changed for 8 years from a performance perspective, but my opinion is useless in that I have no intentions to buy the car. Who cares what I think about the 335, similarly who cares what someone who drives only a lexus SUV thinks about the new M3?

Why I say this is because if you don't own an M3 OR have no intentions to own one, it's impossible for you to understand what it means to own an M3. There are a lot of people here who own the M3 (like myself) for pure joy and driving feel. The steering, engine, exhaust note, flat torque curve, 8400 rpm is what made us buy an M3. We were never in it for pure performance numbers, we didn't care about how long it took for the car to reach to 60mph. If we cared, we'd get a different car to begin with. But you or others coming from cars like 135s or 335s feel differently because to you a car is all about tuning and performance numbers. That's why if you have that background and have no intention to buy the new car, your opinion is irrelevant.

?
the thing is, that this is YOUR opinion which is fine. but that doesn't mean its shared by others. speak for yourself when you say that you got the m3 for those reasons and don't care for or want additional performance.

I own and like the e92, but I don't love it. one reason is that I don't like the engine mated to this car, the car is too heavy and the car isn't fast enough for me.

I prefer more power to match up with the handling and feel of the M3, and that is IN MY OPINION what lacks in the e92. now the new f80 combines that power with everything else that makes an m3 great, and I love it. I don't care about the v8 sound really, I have heard plenty of good sounding turbo motors.

Personally, the s55 is exactly what I am looking for, and combined with the better looks on the sedan, more power (much more), more fuel efficiency, much nicer interior I am sold and will own one.

That's my opinion. And I own an m3, and cant wait to own the new one.

The s65 and e92 m3 isn't the end all be all to everyone.
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      12-19-2013, 09:09 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Earl View Post
I have read every single post in this thread and have realized something very interesting:

* More than 99% of the people who liked the new car currently do NOT own an M3.
* Almost not a single person who currently owns an M3 liked the new car over the old one (except one person).


I think if we had a cut and dry distinction people these two groups of people, you'd see a major shift in perspective and opinion on the new car which could raise some eyebrows in BMW.
There is one major flaw in your reasoning:
You assume that all M3 buyers are on the internet discussing/venting their ideas/opinions about the car. Actually, only a small percentage of M3 owners/buyers are one forums, so their voice is not representative for the way BMW should design future M3s if BMW wants to satisfy their existing customer base. That being said, it doesn't mean they can't make good points.
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      12-19-2013, 09:30 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Earl View Post

The problem is, a lot of the (again "majority) "I-can-afford-a-V8/exotics-car" type of crowd don't appreciate/want a turbo engine whereas a lot of the "I-like-0-60-times-more-and-want-a-JB3-tune" crowd loves the new car but most probably won't even come close to buying one. Again, these are generalizations and there will be exceptions to this rule, but "majority" is the majority.
and I have no idea how a v8 engine is called more exotic? v8 =/ exotic. V8s are found in sub 30k muscle cars and trucks as well as exotics. Not all v8s are the same and same goes for turbo motors. The tech in the s55 makes it nothing like the n54 or anything else in its price range.

there are many many many cars with turbo engines that are exotics and have fantastic performance which is what I am after and appreciate on the track and on the street.

1) F40
2) GTR
3) Porsche turbo
4) Porsche GT2
5) McLaren MP4-C

to name a few.

And your 1 in 20 reference to who prefers the new m3 is not realistic and supported by no data.

Again, I appreciate your opinion, but don't agree with it. The s55 and new tech in the m3 will give it the performance in a straight line that it needed to match the rest of the cars attributes. Not to mention the new improved stock brakes and weight loss.
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      12-19-2013, 09:57 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Earl View Post
I could have an opinion about all of the different types of BMWs and post in all sorts of forums here, but I don't. I drive an M3, I am considering buying the new M3, so I only post in E9X and F8X M3 forums. I don't go and post in the 335 forum. I could go to the 335 forum and say how boring the engine is and how the car hasn't changed for 8 years from a performance perspective, but my opinion is useless in that I have no intentions to buy the car. Who cares what I think about the 335, similarly who cares what someone who drives only a lexus SUV thinks about the new M3?

Why I say this is because if you don't own an M3 OR have no intentions to own one, it's impossible for you to understand what it means to own an M3. There are a lot of people here who own the M3 (like myself) for pure joy and driving feel. The steering, engine, exhaust note, flat torque curve, 8400 rpm is what made us buy an M3. We were never in it for pure performance numbers, we didn't care about how long it took for the car to reach to 60mph. If we cared, we'd get a different car to begin with. But you or others coming from cars like 135s or 335s feel differently because to you a car is all about tuning and performance numbers. That's why if you have that background and have no intention to buy the new car, your opinion is irrelevant.

On a side note, this applies to pretty much anything. I will never buy an android phone and I'm happy with my iphone, this doesn't mean I'm going to actively participate in forum threads about how bad the android is. What's the point? If I'm never going to buy it, who cares what I think about it?
You wrote that entire response, yet you failed to address all of the main points that I was trying to make......and you have the comprehension abilities of a 4th grader. Let me address them again because you sound arrogant and pompous. YOU assume that everybody who comments positively or negatively about the ///M3 has never owned one just because it's not listed as their current car, and you simultaneously invalidate the car enthusiast community in general. I've owned 5 M3's dude (..probably 4 more than you've ever owned); the last one - a 2011.5 AW M3 - I just got rid of in May in favor of an 2013 X5 that I modded and sold. So you're essentially telling me that just because I currently drive a 335i, I shouldn't be able to express my opinion because I don't currently drive an ///M3? And to extend that a bit, you're telling the guy who may be just as much of a car guy as everybody else around here, and who may really want to own an ///M3 (..Or not! Maybe he just admires ///M cars or maybe he just admires new tech), but can't financially afford to do so at this point in his life, that his opinion is invalid???! Dude, you have your head so far up your ass that you're talking out of your armpit. Furthermore, when the discussion is about aesthetics, you don't need to be a current or past owner to appreciate or dislike the way a car looks. All you need are a pair of eyes!

To give you just a bit of a break, your 'ownership' statement holds merit when we're discussing topics that only an owner would have a valid perspective about: livability, car quirks/problems, oil consumption, gas consumption, etc. Those are topics that really require first-hand experience, so ownership is a valid pre-requisite to offering an opinion (..at least in my mind).


You're a newer member here, and based on your 'logic' that would suggest that you are also a newer M3 owner as well (..probably just got on the bandwagon in the last couple of years).....because, gasp! ...you wouldn't dare join this forum and discuss M3's unless you were an owner or intending on purchasing the car. The manner in which you rant and romanticize the M3 also makes it quite obvious as well, and you have simultaneously made it easy to discern that your opinion is worth about as much as a buffalo's shit on a nickel (..and that you can't be taken seriously). One minute you're quoted as saying that the BMW ///M cars aren't exotic - but a Maserati is - and that they're "just another BMW"......"just glorified versions of the standard car" (...and in the context of that post you made in your 'Monthly lease' thread, you were suggesting that the M cars aren't really all that), yet you come here and fire breathe and preach on your own pulpit to those who suggest more or less the same thing!???! Which is it? Remain consistent or be quiet.

Last edited by Sedan_Clan; 12-19-2013 at 10:35 AM..
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      12-19-2013, 10:20 AM   #142
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      12-19-2013, 10:21 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post

You're a newer member here, and based on your 'logic' that would suggest that you are also a new M3 owner as well.....because, gasp! ...you wouldn't dare join this forum and discuss M3's unless you were an owner or intending on purchasing the car. The manner in which you rant and romanticize the M3 also makes it quite obvious as well, and you have simultaneously made it easy to discern that your opinion is worth about as much as a buffalo's shit on a nickel (..and that you can't be taken seriously).

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      12-19-2013, 10:37 AM   #144
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The F80/F82 makes the N54/54 guys feel good about their turbo lag
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      12-19-2013, 11:30 AM   #145
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Wow the F80 looks so muscular and I like the more angular appearance compared to the E90.

The E90 interior is so bland..
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      12-19-2013, 11:53 AM   #146
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If this car is based on the F32, I dont see how it ll make the E92 look dated.
I've seen the F32 in real life and it wasnt impressive.
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      12-19-2013, 12:07 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
that "dated" engine gives me chills.
Modern all the way.
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      12-19-2013, 12:11 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Earl View Post
MAJORITY of the current M3 owners did not (and does not) like the direction BMW took with the ///M divison.
Who is this majority? The only other person Who shares your view is Ezio and maybe few other people. Hardly MAJORITY.
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      12-19-2013, 12:24 PM   #149
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What has this thread become? LOL. Why are people posting Ferrari engines and getting mad at each other?
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      12-19-2013, 12:34 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Earl View Post
You are a minority here. Probably the only guy who sold an M3 and moved back to a 335 (here being here in this particular forum, not here in bimmerpost).

MAJORITY of the current M3 owners did not (and does not) like the direction BMW took with the ///M divison. MAJORITY of the NON-M3 owners (you not owning an M3 right now also supports this claim as you didn't like the direction they took with the current engine) DISLIKE the V8 hence they like the new car. You could put up a poll in the main page and you will see this is the truth.

My point was, if you have no intentions to buy an M3, your opinion is irrelevant. You are not in that group of people because you do want to buy an M3.
I hate to continue to harp on you, but you're STILL assuming. I'm not the only guy here who has sold an ///M car and I'm not the only guy who, after selling their ///M car, moved to 'lesser' car. This is my first 335i, so I didn't 'move back' to anything. After getting rid of my last ///M for the X5 (..which I purchased because I needed a larger car to tow my race bike, but ultimately received an offer to sell it, so I did), I decided to lease a 335i because....
  • I didn't want a 5 or 7 Series.
  • I didn't want to buy another E9X ///M3 when the new car was less than a year away, and I had already owned an E90 ///M3 sedan and two E92 ///M3 coupes.
  • I didn't want to change brands; I did that before - I traded my '03 M3 for an '04 G35 and regretted it - and I'll never do that again.


I didn't get rid of my car(s) because I didn't like BMW's direction. In my 12-ish years of BMW ownership, I've never had a problem with the direction BMW has taken (..the overuse of the ///M badge aside). I traded/sold my cars simply out of boredom and an admittedly fickle behavior towards cars; I'm on my 10th BMW in 12 years, and half were ///M3's. People like the new car because it's angular, muscular, provides more performance than the outgoing car and is something new. An enthusiast doesn't have to dislike the previous car to praise the new car.

The MAJORITY of the people who will buy an ///M car are not on this forum; the forum community, while large, is very small. Stop trying to speak for everybody. The people who truly dislike the V8 are a small, but vocal bunch, and that's their prerogative.
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      12-19-2013, 12:36 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
The manner in which you rant and romanticize the M3 also makes it quite obvious as well, and you have simultaneously made it easy to discern that your opinion is worth about as much as a buffalo's shit on a nickel
That is precisely what I think about I am Earl's opinion.
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      12-19-2013, 12:43 PM   #152
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      12-19-2013, 12:44 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Earl
[

My point was, if you have no intentions to buy an M3, your opinion is irrelevant. You are not in that group of people because you do want to buy an M3.
If you really believe that last line, then honestly you are completely hopeless. And elitist. Closed minded and short sighted come to mind too.

Give it up already.
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      12-19-2013, 01:06 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Earl View Post
You are a minority here. Probably the only guy who sold an M3 and moved back to a 335 (here being here in this particular forum, not here in bimmerpost).

I have owned 4 BMWs, 2 M3s (1 E46 and this), and I have owned my current M3 for 3 years. So yes I may be a new member here, but not new to BMW.

MAJORITY of the current M3 owners did not (and does not) like the direction BMW took with the ///M divison. MAJORITY of the NON-M3 owners (you not owning an M3 right now also supports this claim as you didn't like the direction they took with the current engine) DISLIKE the V8 hence they like the new car. You could put up a poll in the main page and you will see this is the truth.

My point was, if you have no intentions to buy an M3, your opinion is irrelevant. You are not in that group of people because you do want to buy an M3.
You seem to make a lot of faulty generalizations and also rush to conclusions with little or no supporting evidence.

I do not own an M3.
I like the E9x M3.
I love V8s.
I love the new M3.
I prefer a V8 to a 6-cylinder but I also like more power.
I'll be buying the new M3/4 and not the old one unless I move to Porsche.

Why would I be buying the new M3 if I prefer V8s? Based on every new M being better than the previous generation and the spec of the new one, the new one will be better in every measurable objective way.

There's no denying that I would have preferred the engine being a V8 due to the engine sound but the engine sound alone is not what I yearn for. A car has to play its part, and the M3 is meant to be a practical sport car, which means that it must feel, drive, look, move and sound like one.

The new one is designed by the same people that designed the E9X and now has more power, less weight, improved materials, improved electronics, and improved acceleration; it is bound to be better.

Also, some people are erroneously concluding that because the new M3 has more in common with the base 3 series than the E9X that that means the E9x is more special. Not necessarily true. Could it be that the base 3 series improved so much over the prior model that only incremental changes are needed for the new M3? I would love to think that BMW, with two generations of engine data, has learnt enough to make the 3.0 turbo bulletproof.
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