Life after NT01 - need help with next track tire decision

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by r4dr

In between stints? When we tried it, our sessions were back to back so I was adding 5 gal between every pair of stints. Only had enough time to hop out and hop in.

Yes, in between. PCA always runs their red and black groups back to back. So driver 1 pits and feeds the car with the 5 gal jug while driver 2 straps up.
Driver2 does lose some time, but then they start driving with nice hot tires so it kind of makes up for it

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by r4dr

Gotcha. Yeah I called BimmerWorld because I know they came out with kits for the E36 and E46 cars, but they said they were aware of the F8X issues but no plans for a kit.

Because their M4 GT4 cars have fuel cells so it hasn't impacted them yet, makes it lower priority. Must be nice!!

We were talking with James and Phil about this as well

[r4dr]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Yes, in between. PCA always runs their red and black groups back to back. So driver 1 pits and feeds the car with the 5 gal jug while driver 2 straps up.
Driver2 does lose some time, but then they start driving with nice hot tires so it kind of makes up for it

I'll have to give that a shot. Weird issue to have.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by r4dr

I'll have to give that a shot. Weird issue to have.

I forgot to say: driver1 starts their session with a full tank of gas

[Gomeler]

You can dump 5 gallons with the VP jugs pretty quickly(60-80s?). Or just mod the fill tube and dump 5 gallons in 25s with Hunsaker jugs

[MyFragileHalogen]

I heard there was some fancy jugs that have auto fill pump, have you guys tried them?

[MyFragileHalogen]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

As you have aftermarket suspension you can probably move to the BFG R1 in 275 square.

I think you said about it before. Would BFG R1 not work with stock suspension in NT-01 camber? (-2.5ish)

I have like 6-7 days on my NT-01s and I was thinking about buying new front tires once front shoulders wear out, then move onto something stickier like BFG-R1 once these new fronts + old rears wear out or heat cycled out.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Gomeler

You can dump 5 gallons with the VP jugs pretty quickly(60-80s?). Or just mod the fill tube and dump 5 gallons in 25s with Hunsaker jugs

Originally Posted by MyFragileHalogen

I heard there was some fancy jugs that have auto fill pump, have you guys tried them?

I have not. Although we tread HPDEs the same way we treated AER racing we are more concerned about driver 2 having time to buckle up safely -which takes more time than fueling- than speeding the process along.

[wigaster]

Originally Posted by NYG

Grip wise they are.

For a hot lap they are easily as sticky as NT01 but the re-71r is worthless after 20 min. Makes it a great autocross tire but not great for a heavier car like the F80 in HPDE. I easily lose 2 seconds a lap once they get too hot. NT01 I've punished for 45 min straight and they remained consistent

[NYG]

Originally Posted by wigaster

For a hot lap they are easily as sticky as NT01 but the re-71r is worthless after 20 min. Makes it a great autocross tire but not great for a heavier car like the F80 in HPDE. I easily lose 2 seconds a lap once they get too hot. NT01 I've punished for 45 min straight and they remained consistent

I think the NT01 grip is heavily exaggerated sometimes and I'm a big fan of the NT01. It only grips a little bit better than a max summer tire like a Cup2 but I had a little less understeer with the Cup2 to compensate.

Full disclosure, I've never ran RE71R but there's a lot of folks on here and off the forum who's driving I respect and the RE71R is definitely the faster tire.

SYT_Shadow runs 2:06 at the Glen on RE71R --- you ain't doing that on NT01.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by wigaster

For a hot lap they are easily as sticky as NT01 but the re-71r is worthless after 20 min. Makes it a great autocross tire but not great for a heavier car like the F80 in HPDE. I easily lose 2 seconds a lap once they get too hot. NT01 I've punished for 45 min straight and they remained consistent

You may be overdriving it. I had a student recently that was railing against the RE71s longevity and when I went out with him he was overdriving the crap out of them, all the while putting down lap times beneath the potential of the tire.

My brother and I dual-duty the M3 with RE71s. The car runs for a full hour at a time. One person is out doing a 2:06, we fuel the car with a jug and then go out for another 30 min.

If you go to an AER grid where they run an 8h endurance race, the RE71 is the most common tire.

[Gomeler]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

You may be overdriving it. I had a student recently that was railing against the RE71s longevity and when I went out with him he was overdriving the crap out of them, all the while putting down lap times beneath the potential of the tire.

My brother and I dual-duty the M3 with RE71s. The car runs for a full hour at a time. One person is out doing a 2:06, we fuel the car with a jug and then go out for another 30 min.

If you go to an AER grid where they run an 8h endurance race, the RE71 is the most common tire.

Are they getting 8 hours out of the RE71R? When we tested it, the tire was too soft and corded. Completely dependent on course surface admittedly, a freshly resurfaced course could easily enable the tire to survive.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

You may be overdriving it. I had a student recently that was railing against the RE71s longevity and when I went out with him he was overdriving the crap out of them, all the while putting down lap times beneath the potential of the tire.

My brother and I dual-duty the M3 with RE71s. The car runs for a full hour at a time. One person is out doing a 2:06, we fuel the car with a jug and then go out for another 30 min.

If you go to an AER grid where they run an 8h endurance race, the RE71 is the most common tire.

Agreed. Once they get greasy you need to back off so they can cool down a bit, otherwise you're just abusing/accelerating wear (as with most tires eh).

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Gomeler

Are they getting 8 hours out of the RE71R? When we tested it, the tire was too soft and corded. Completely dependent on course surface admittedly, a freshly resurfaced course could easily enable the tire to survive.

We never had to change during a race, so yes

Obviously track surfaces differ.

We do not do any cool down laps during a session, but we drive tidyly in general

[Gomeler]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

We never had to change during a race, so yes

Obviously track surfaces differ.

We do not do any cool down laps during a session, but we drive tidyly in general

Huh, any idea what car/weight and tire dimensions? Really surprised to hear that, but very interesting given people's results with it.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Gomeler

Huh, any idea what car/weight and tire dimensions? Really surprised to hear that, but very interesting given people's results with it.

In AER most cars are E36 M3s

In HPDE we run full weight M3s ~3600lb running 275/35 tires

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

You may be overdriving it. I had a student recently that was railing against the RE71s longevity and when I went out with him he was overdriving the crap out of them, all the while putting down lap times beneath the potential of the tire.

My brother and I dual-duty the M3 with RE71s. The car runs for a full hour at a time. One person is out doing a 2:06, we fuel the car with a jug and then go out for another 30 min.

If you go to an AER grid where they run an 8h endurance race, the RE71 is the most common tire.

Back to back keeps the tires warm, great way to reduce heat cycle count

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by fanatic1

Back to back keeps the tires warm, great way to reduce heat cycle count

yes it does!!!!

[MyFragileHalogen]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

You may be overdriving it. I had a student recently that was railing against the RE71s longevity and when I went out with him he was overdriving the crap out of them, all the while putting down lap times beneath the potential of the tire.

Kinda sounds like "don't blame the tool use it right" you know like you can make a $200 guitar sounds like $2000 if you know how to play.

Lots of people including myself would need more experience to know how optimize lap time while maintaining longevity; like experience and skills that would be obtained from the art of endurance racing and such. So for majority of people, it might be not wrong to say it may get 'overheated and greasy' depending on who drive them.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by MyFragileHalogen

Kinda sounds like "don't blame the tool use it right" you know like you can make a $200 guitar sounds like $2000 if you know how to play.

Lots of people including myself would need more experience to know how optimize lap time while maintaining longevity; like experience and skills that would be obtained from the art of endurance racing and such. So for majority of people, it might be not wrong to say it may get 'overheated and greasy' depending on who drive them.

Agreed, but the only tire I've used that I can just beat up is the BFG R1. The NT01 has tire management issues all by itself as well.

I stopped running it when I was at Mid Ohio frustrated trying to drop from 1:40 with my 10" square 275/35 NT01s. Eventually I threw on my ZCP wheels with 255/275 RE71s which I was using to drive to/from the track and dropped a second.
After that and some tire blistering issues I unmounted the NT01s and haven't looked back. The RE71 can take a faster pace for longer than the NT01, but may require cleaner driving to achieve it.
At the Glen, the first weekend with the CS we were able to get to 2:06s with 255/275 RE71 tires and stock suspension. That is cookin'! Well driven 991 GT3 RS are in the 2:06-2:08 range on street tires. Note that a 9"/10" setup with 255/275 tires is far from optimum... for a real 'best time' you'd need 285/30 RE71s mounted on 10.5" track wheels

The student in question who was overdriving the RE71s got some coaching and stopped doing it almost immediately. They left their 3 day weekend with the tires in great condition and having put down faster lap times than before when they were beating the tires up.

Right now I'm running the BFG R1, not the RE71, but if I needed a dual duty tire I'd continue on the RE71 path. I'd also try the A052 which seems real hot just to be sure.

[MyFragileHalogen]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Agreed, but the only tire I've used that I can just beat up is the BFG R1. The NT01 has tire management issues all by itself as well.

I stopped running it when I was at Mid Ohio frustrated trying to drop from 1:40 with my 10" square 275/35 NT01s. Eventually I threw on my ZCP wheels with 255/275 RE71s which I was using to drive to/from the track and dropped a second.
After that and some tire blistering issues I unmounted the NT01s and haven't looked back. The RE71 can take a faster pace for longer than the NT01, but may require cleaner driving to achieve it.
At the Glen, the first weekend with the CS we were able to get to 2:06s with 255/275 RE71 tires and stock suspension. That is cookin'! Well driven 991 GT3 RS are in the 2:06-2:08 range on street tires. Note that a 9"/10" setup with 255/275 tires is far from optimum... for a real 'best time' you'd need 285/30 RE71s mounted on 10.5" track wheels

The student in question who was overdriving the RE71s got some coaching and stopped doing it almost immediately. They left their 3 day weekend with the tires in great condition and having put down faster lap times than before when they were beating the tires up.

Right now I'm running the BFG R1, not the RE71, but if I needed a dual duty tire I'd continue on the RE71 path. I'd also try the A052 which seems real hot just to be sure.

I like RE71s in my Miata but the front shoulders were wearing so quickly on first day. These are expensive! So for the long term cost concern I opted for the popular NT-01 course. I was little nervous about stepping up to R compound, but turned out very easy to control and lasting as claimed and doesn't seem to be horribly slow.

I guess I will never get to try RE-71r on the M4. I am thinking about trying out the BFG R1 next year. Maybe 285 30 18 square mounted on the same 10" front/11" rear APEX wheels that were bought for NT-01s. I know PrimeBMW used them on his E92 with stock suspension before he got MCS.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by MyFragileHalogen

I like RE71s in my Miata but the front shoulders were wearing so quickly on first day. These are expensive! So for the long term cost concern I opted for the popular NT-01 course. I was little nervous about stepping up to R compound, but turned out very easy to control and lasting as claimed and doesn't seem to be horribly slow.

I guess I will never get to try RE-71r on the M4. I am thinking about trying out the BFG R1 next year. Maybe 285 30 18 square mounted on the same 10" front/11" rear APEX wheels that were bought for NT-01s. I know PrimeBMW used them on his E92 with stock suspension before he got MCS.

If you're running 10 front run a 275/35 tire on that wheel. They are super wide to begin with