People who seem to be happy with the new F80 M3 / F82 M4 engine direction

[Tåst]

Originally Posted by Levi

Yeah, Ferrari V8 reminds Cadillac...

lol it´s V8 whit flatplane crank, so totally differend ignition timing and crank, same that you compare I4 and V12 engine sounds and American (not flatplane) V8 is typically differend timing ignition than European(not flatplane) V8 engines.

And this is just my opinion, everybody can disagree.

Must say, I am not saying that E92 M3 sound reminds Cadillac, I want say that word V8 makes me mind some lazy american cadillac rumbling.

[mkoesel]

Well, if you are determined to hate something then, yes, I would probably agree that even if a brand new E92 M3 were dropped into your driveway by the patron saint of BMW, you will probably drive it around with a frown on your face. Maybe you even put on a big red bumper sticker with no writing - just six nicely sized round holes cut in it, all in a line.

But, if you are a genuine speed freak and car nut with a passion for anything fast and fun, it will really be tough to ignore the thrills an E92 M3 can provide you. I highly recommend you try one out if you are ever presented with the opportunity.

Originally Posted by Holander

V8 and some lazy rumbling Cadillac is burned on my eyes, cant get over it... I am not drive V8 M3, maybe I rent it someday when visiting Munchen, but it cannot be so amazing that I change my mind, I am driven M3 e36/e46 and M135, great cars and highrevving I6 belongs to Bmw and M3.

[NISFAN]

Do people not feel that modern engines are that well controlled with VANOS, EFI, Drive by wire, etc that they no longer feel special?

These electronic aides do such a good job of stretching and smoothing the power delivery that it no longer matters how many cylinders or what configuration the engine actually is.....or even NA or turbocharged. To me even the S65 falls into this category, there is no 'on the power band' feeling, just smooth linear power delivery. The only feeling of sportiness is the amount of power being produced.

I imagine the next M3/M4 will be the same. Clue: the only reason you would contemplate fitting 3 turbo's is to produce seam-less power from idle to red line.

It's then down to exhaust flaps (in the case of Ferrari) or piped engine noise (in the case of BMW and Audi) to inject some sporty feeling. A million miles away from the raw M88 engine in the M1.

This to me makes the engine contribution almost zero to the sportiness of a modern car, it is all in the chassis.....the gearbox has a bigger influence than engine these days. Sad times.

So lets hope the new M3/4 is light and well balanced....should be the F30 is a big improvement on E90.

[G80indy]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Do people not feel that modern engines are that well controlled with VANOS, EFI, Drive by wire, etc that they no longer feel special?

These electronic aides do such a good job of stretching and smoothing the power delivery that it no longer matters how many cylinders or what configuration the engine actually is.....or even NA or turbocharged. To me even the S65 falls into this category, there is no 'on the power band' feeling, just smooth linear power delivery.

Totally agree!
Have driven the 335i with N54. Not exactly linear in throttle response, and then just out of steam at 6k.
S65 delivers very smooth and responsive power at any RPM, and it isn't even breaking a sweat at 6000 rpm. And the sound is addictive. Radar detector is a must have.
That's coming from an S54 owner.

[BMW269]

I don't get this love for flooring the pedal at idle. I like the feeling of reaching redline, and in FI cars, it feels different and pointless. I think it should be more fun to reach redling of 6K on the new Corvette Stingray than 7.2K on the M5.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Levi

I don't get this love for flooring the pedal at idle. I like the feeling of reaching redline, and in FI cars, it feels different and pointless. I think it should be more fun to reach redling of 6K on the new Corvette Stingray than 7.2K on the M5.

That feeling has NOTHING to do with FI, it is the OEM's pandering to the 'I want power from idle to red line' brigade.

Come drive my straight six, big single turbo engined car....not much happens until 4,500rpm then all hell breaks loose all the way to 9,000rpm. Makes any NA seem boring, including S65. Keep that thing in the powerband on a track and you don't get a more rewarding and addictive motoring experience. ............but because it can't be driven by idiots buying a fast car to go to the shops, it would get slated.

For every 1 enthusiast there are 10,000 ass wipes with zero driving know how.

[Tåst]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Come drive my straight six, big single turbo engined car....not much happens until 4,500rpm then all hell breaks loose all the way to 9,000rpm

Intresting, Anything specs or building topic on your car?

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Holander

Intresting, Anything specs or building topic on your car?

It is not a BMW engine.

I have quite a few pics on my old laptop, but it is quite a common conversion, just youtube 'RB26 T04Z'

[Tåst]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

It is not a BMW engine.

I have quite a few pics on my old laptop, but it is quite a common conversion, just youtube 'RB26 T04Z'

Okey great engine whit very strong block. I just think would it be S38 or S54 and how you pull reliable to 9000rpm whith turbochargers.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

That feeling has NOTHING to do with FI, it is the OEM's pandering to the 'I want power from idle to red line' brigade.

Come drive my straight six, big single turbo engined car....not much happens until 4,500rpm then all hell breaks loose all the way to 9,000rpm. Makes any NA seem boring, including S65. Keep that thing in the powerband on a track and you don't get a more rewarding and addictive motoring experience. ............but because it can't be driven by idiots buying a fast car to go to the shops, it would get slated.

For every 1 enthusiast there are 10,000 ass wipes with zero driving know how.

wait your modded engine makes a S65 seem boring ? no way..... no way can a modded engine be as great as a OEM S65.

but really i bet its a hell of a engine. again i am talking about a stock S65 Vs the new upcoming engine in stock forum. BMW is going to make that car seem like it has no turbos. I like trubos, they are fun as hell. But stock they are boring as hell! You cant REALLY feel them nor hear them.

[rondocap]

Look what happened to the new M5 - faster and more efficient, but lacking the character of the previous v10. Like a hyped up 550i.

I have a tuned 335 as well, and while the car is fast and has amazing torque, it has no strong character to me.

The e90/92 m3 v8 IS character. Exciting car. Sounds amazing, reacts sharply on all ends.

I don't care if turbo makes it faster - it will dull the car compared to the previous v8.

Hopefully it can be at least as good as the 1m.

[MMMMM3]

Anyone who hasn't driven an s65 powered m3 needs to find someone with one with a DCT transmission, put it in M mode and drive around and drop it into second gear when the car is going 40km/h or so. The DCT rev match and the sound of the eight throttle bodies doing their thing, while listening to the intake noises is intoxicating. Try it in a tunnel or parking garage for extra intoxication.

[RMB]

Coming home last night with the window down I totally agree that the V8 sounds and feels great. It is different from American V8's, but with induction noise and all it sounds wonderful. If the engine is like the engine in the 1M I think this has great potential. Given the short development time with the 1M, compared to the longer gestation period of the new M3/M4, I have great confidence that it will do well. Sure, the M5 hasn't won as much acclaim, but the M division has pride and I think they want the M3/M4 to be phenomenal. I've already put money down on an M4 and have confidence doing so.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by RMB

Coming home last night with the window down I totally agree that the V8 sounds and feels great. It is different from American V8's, but with induction noise and all it sounds wonderful. If the engine is like the engine in the 1M I think this has great potential. Given the short development time with the 1M, compared to the longer gestation period of the new M3/M4, I have great confidence that it will do well. Sure, the M5 hasn't won as much acclaim, but the M division has pride and I think they want the M3/M4 to be phenomenal. I've already put money down on an M4 and have confidence doing so.

The engine in the 1M is not even an M engine. It was simply taken out of the Z4is engine bay...

[RMB]

Very true that the 1M engine was borrowed from a non-M product. However, that would mean there is even a better chance that the engine in the M3/M4 will be special given how long the development time has been and the previous lessons learned from other BMW products. I haven't read any negative reviews of the 1M and it does seem to have a large fan base world wide. I believe turbocharging can work in an M product IMHO.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

That feeling has NOTHING to do with FI, it is the OEM's pandering to the 'I want power from idle to red line' brigade.

Come drive my straight six, big single turbo engined car....not much happens until 4,500rpm then all hell breaks loose all the way to 9,000rpm. Makes any NA seem boring, including S65. Keep that thing in the powerband on a track and you don't get a more rewarding and addictive motoring experience. ............but because it can't be driven by idiots buying a fast car to go to the shops, it would get slated.

For every 1 enthusiast there are 10,000 ass wipes with zero driving know how.

And that car is usable WHERE besides a racetrack?

[Thurman Murch]

I'll admit I used to think like kevinlevrone when I couldn't afford an M3, to me the 335i had the it factor so easy to drive.

But after having two 335i's, individual 335i full m perf exh and ppk, 335is (put 41k miles on it) two e92 M3s, E46 M3 and a F10 M5... I'm back to an E9 M3

The S65 is intoxicating and it has more than enough everything.... I can afford to drive it like how it's meant and it is phenomenal

The 335is is amazing outside of injector problems, the E46 M3 so much fun in the esses, they are all great cars... I actually got the best gas mileage of them all in the 335i individual then the 335is. I get better mileage in the current M3. I'm not sure what BMW did with the 2011+ S65 but it is so much more responsive.

I was so tempted to go to a 911 or a C63 but I love my current M3 and no doubt the F8x will be awesome... The S65 is soulful

[Thurman Murch]

Originally Posted by rondocap

Look what happened to the new M5 - faster and more efficient, but lacking the character of the previous v10. Like a hyped up 550i.

I have a tuned 335 as well, and while the car is fast and has amazing torque, it has no strong character to me.

The e90/92 m3 v8 IS character. Exciting car. Sounds amazing, reacts sharply on all ends.

I don't care if turbo makes it faster - it will dull the car compared to the previous v8.

Hopefully it can be at least as good as the 1m.

I agree with this but the S63tu is unrelenting you feel like you are taking off on the runway the surge is monstrous and the power all around... It's like a veyron 1/2 and do agree of its heft and aloofness with steering and front end placement...I miss the one I had but love the S65 even more... I think the M5 is a great family car

[dhoggm3]

Originally Posted by MMMMM3

Anyone who hasn't driven an s65 powered m3 needs to find someone with one with a DCT transmission, put it in M mode and drive around and drop it into second gear when the car is going 40km/h or so. The DCT rev match and the sound of the eight throttle bodies doing their thing, while listening to the intake noises is intoxicating. Try it in a tunnel or parking garage for extra intoxication.

This also works quite well with a 6MT and someone who knows how to drive it.

I actually like the S65 sound better than a Ferrari F430. Up to 6,000 RPM, anyway. Above that, the S65 sounds very sweet, but the F-car howls like a banshee.

I will definitely miss the sound of the beautifully engineered 4-liter V8, even if the I6 pulls stronger. Let's just hope the M3.4 retains its character!

[Ashley Schaeffer BMW]

LOL @ the "M3 needs more power and torque"......

You guys clearly dont know what an M car is all about then.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

And that car is usable WHERE besides a racetrack?

Anywhere, it produces not far off typical NA power before the turbo reaches 'boost threshold' revs, then delivers massive power.....if you give it WOT, so is very streetable.
I say this is how it was in standard form, of course with the mods it is dangerous on the street as it goes from 150 ish hp to 550hp in about 1,500rpm then climbs to 700hp, little scary with no traction control in a car weighing less than 3000lbs.

The point I'm trying to make is that this low revving modern OEM Turbo config popular today, is giving Turbo charging a bad name.

[kiloil]

Originally Posted by kevinlevrone

Give me more power and torque and I don't care what engine it is.

The e92 M3 is just underpowered in daily driving (and on tight tracks) due to the lower torque. I drove an e92 M3 and while everything was perfect in terms of suspension and steering, the engine was a letdown for me (I have a tuned 335i). Also, the V8 M3 engine doesn't sound especially good, it is rather dull, faint and uncharacteristic to a V8 sound. Listen to an AMG or Porsche engine, even a V6 or an inline 6, and they sound awesome. Why can't BMW do this ?

The new M3 engine will fix this, and I think that it may even sound better, from the spy videos. It will even have a "close to 8000RPM redline" as I read lately. I will speculate a 7800RPM redline.

Sorry, but there is nothing in the S65 V8 engine that impresses me.

If you think the V8 is dull, you clearly need to clean out the wax. I do like all M3's and I will love the new one probably just as much as I like this one. I like the V8 high rev, but sometimes prefer the torque of the turbo. To each is its own, but you're the first that I've read to say the V8 is dull.