04-29-2014, 09:16 PM | #265 | |
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![]() But I digress ![]() |
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04-29-2014, 09:42 PM | #266 |
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04-30-2014, 12:00 AM | #267 |
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Not, no digression but more misunderstanding. No production road automobile makes 550 whp with 560 crank hp, period, not possible. Also, slightly generalizing these numbers, no production road automobile has a 2% drivetrain loss (that is the 550/560 numbers) or 5% for that matter. This is like teaching calculus to cats... It's really not that complex.
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04-30-2014, 12:02 AM | #268 | |
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Others have posted about the GT-R in this thread. My full bolt on 2012 GT-R makes 700 crank hp, or a little over 600hp at the wheels at 19psi of boost. (I had both a modded 335 and an E90 M3 previously). I think it's the perfect amount of power, and I daily drive my car. Anyway, proportionally, the M4 should be able to make 552hp at the crank with full bolt on mods (assuming the stock turbos can handle it). That would make it a fun car and I'd consider making it my DD and use the GT-R on the weekends. |
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04-30-2014, 12:08 AM | #269 | |
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That's 12%, thus 10-15% excluding tires to cover a range of more and less quality and efficiency of the components. And again, for clarity these are rpm/speed dependent, as such losses clearly are not a fixed percentage across all gears and speeds. The fundamental (simplest) nature of friction is a non-linear force as a function of velocity. I've provided the formula for tire losses and they grow non-linearly with speed, prob. up to about 30 hp for a car like an M4 at top (delimited speed). That's about 7% of 440 hp, quite significant.
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04-30-2014, 12:27 AM | #270 | |
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The official spec thread clearly states Mitsubishi turbos... And the engine pictures in same thread also clearly shows that it's Mitsubishi turbos... Would perhaps reconsider your use of the clueless part when it comes to turbo manufacturer ![]() |
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04-30-2014, 02:38 AM | #271 |
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I read here that the S55 may be running TF035 turbos
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=924954 Subarus have been using a single TF035 on the Forester and after some googling I found several forum posts saying that people boost them at 12-15psi for years without problems. Also Subarus are using the 14T sized compressor wheel while the S55 turbos have the 17T size, according to the link above. Therefore it seems possible that two TF035-17T turbos could boost up to 24psi which would result in significant performance gains. |
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04-30-2014, 05:22 AM | #272 | |
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Aren't "auxilaries" or "ancillaries" losses included in SAE and DIN power ratings nowadays? Isn't 5% a bit much for drive wheel hubs and axles? As for tire losses, there seems to be a discrepancy in the number shown here and the one used in the top speed thread. To calculate top speed, the losses of all four tires needs to be considered. However, to establish losses on a 2WD roller type dyno, only the loss of the drive axle needs to be considered (2 wheels). Yet 30hp is used in both scenarios. Last edited by CanAutM3; 04-30-2014 at 09:16 AM.. |
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04-30-2014, 06:19 AM | #273 | |
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Stock 1M (in the overboost function) - 14.5 psi Stock s55 - 18.1 psi ("Mitsubishi mono-scroll turbochargers 18.1 PSI / 1.25 BAR max peak") To run 18.1 psi in stock I think it is logically to have bigger turbos to handle this boost. Now I can't find any info about TD04 turbos, but it is the next size from the n54's TD03 turbos which I did 16 psi with tune and 18 psi you can make only with meth.
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04-30-2014, 06:57 AM | #274 | ||
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2 x N54 -> 1 x N55 -> 1 x S55-> 1 x B58
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04-30-2014, 06:58 AM | #275 | |
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2 x N54 -> 1 x N55 -> 1 x S55-> 1 x B58
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04-30-2014, 01:17 PM | #276 | |||
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Perhaps. The numbers I have provided are a result of many different sources, including technical papers, curve fitting (CarTest vs. observed results), CarTest defaults, Gillespie's book, etc. Getting this type of information precisely is not easy! The good results I have obtained with CarTest vs. real world always include the particular (default) number as I have never adjusted it. Quote:
If you want to calculate any real world performance in a sim, you must count losses for all wheels. If you want to make a correction of some sort for a 2WD roller dyno you should use 1/2 of the total vehicle tire losses, but of course at the given effective ground speed at peak hp in that gear, not at Vmax! This loss will be considerably less than 30hp since it grows non-linearly with speed. For example at Vmax in 3rd gear in an E92 M3, the loss for the rear wheels only is only about 5 hp. The number here of 30 hp is taken directly from CarTest and I have verified that the approach of CarTest is based directly on a common formula and posted on that methodology prior (pretty sure you were involved in that discussion). The M3 and M4 results will also differ due to the vehicles weight difference.
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04-30-2014, 01:26 PM | #277 | |
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![]() Most underrating seem to come for turbocharged engines, regardless of manufacturer. I wonder if it has to do with testing standards and/or correction factors. |
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04-30-2014, 01:28 PM | #278 |
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I think most of it is insuring the engine can make the stated power across a wide range of environmental conditions, i.e. temperature, altitude (pressure) and to a lesser extent humidity.
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04-30-2014, 04:06 PM | #279 |
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In the new German car magazine SPORTAUTO is "the Supertest" of the all new F30 Alpina B3 with dynoed 430hp and Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres ... NOS time is 8.14 min and SPORTAUTO stated that the N55 engine of this car is less ideal for track use because its high low-end-torque and not linear power delivery make it dificult to drive fast in track.
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04-30-2014, 04:37 PM | #280 | |
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05-01-2014, 11:44 AM | #281 |
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I don't get these continuous powerband and responsiveness complaints. It's as if not a single track worthy turbo motor on this earth had existed.
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05-01-2014, 01:20 PM | #282 |
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There are plenty of great race/track cars with turbos. What made them great is the massive amount of power they could produce. Responsiveness and linearity of power delivery was never their strong suit though.
Last edited by CanAutM3; 05-03-2014 at 10:14 AM.. |
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05-12-2014, 08:18 AM | #283 | |
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05-22-2014, 04:47 PM | #284 |
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07-16-2014, 06:35 AM | #285 |
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I'm quite new around here, I have a Sakhir orange M4 on order and want to make it my own from the word go.
I've just jumped off the phone with a guy at Mulgari here in the UK. I called them and pre ordered an Akrapovic for the M4 ![]() |
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09-08-2014, 02:23 AM | #286 | |
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