M3 CP vs M4 Convertible CP

[CrossyN]

So I've owned a new F83 CP for around 10 weeks now, put roughly 1400 miles on it... and it went into the dealer 2 days ago for a wheel refurb.

They gave me a beautiful 2018 frozen silver F80 CP as a loaner:



Honestly - I didn't put too much thought into it prior to collection, but I assumed the only difference I'd feel would be a slightly very marginal increase in nippyness due to the obvious weight increase on the M4 Convertible. I've read all the forum threads from folk banging on about weight differences being a thing, and I have to admit, I was like "really, come off it, yea if you want to shave a second off your lap time around Spa then fair enough but out on the public roads no way is it a thing you'd notice".

Well, boy was I wrong there.

The M3 feels like the better car and I felt it the moment I took it off out from the dealership. It's smoother on the road, the steering during regular driving feels more precise and refined, the chassis feels tighter, it sounds louder... by that I mean the ASD seems to be cranked up significantly over the F83 (that might not be a good thing for many), it breaks traction on a straight when you put the hammer down whereas my F83 doesn't... the regular CP seats feels so much more snug than the convertible seats... I could go on.

The only non-cosmetic advantage to the F83 CP is that for some reason - the exhaust burbles and backfires seem to be louder and more pronounced on my F83, but that could simply be down to manufacturing tolerances and differences in production lines perhaps. And it's done a few hundred more miles than the F80.

Don't get me wrong, I knew the F83 was heavier and with that came the sacrifice of more weight - and more weight shifts will shift the centre of gravity and alter the driving dynamics, but I did not expect it to feel so obvious.

There is also the fact that they are a different chassis - the point being, anyone considering a purchase at this point really really does need to drive them all as there's more of a difference than I first thought between the M3 and M4 (convertible). I haven't had an extended stint in a F82 yet.

Other than it being down to purely differences in weight, I'd love to hear input on what else contributes to the significantly different feel between the two.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not regretting my purchase of the F83, I went for the convertible because I wanted a convertible, but damn that M3 is incredible. And frozen silver... what a colour.

[Brasko]

I had a similar experience recently when I rented a 2018 Mustang GT Convertible during a trip to Las Vegas, Nevada. Despite the similar horsepower and torque, the Mustang GT felt much, much heavier and very sluggish off the line compared to my M3 ZCP. Yes, I know they are completely different cars, but for sake of hardtop/convertible comparison.

I don't think it's purely a weight difference between the F80/F83 chassis. The fact that the F80 has a hardtop means the overall stiffness/rigidity of the sedan is much greater than a convertible. I bet this is most noticeable on a road course were the limits of both vehicles are pushed to the limit.

[alex2364]

I wish my dealer gives out M loaners. I’m lucky if they just offer a BMW loaner.

[instarand]

Originally Posted by TFI

So I've owned a new F83 CP for around 10 weeks now, put roughly 1400 miles on it... and it went into the dealer 2 days ago for a wheel refurb.

They gave me a beautiful 2018 frozen silver F80 CP as a loaner:



Honestly - I didn't put too much thought into it prior to collection, but I assumed the only difference I'd feel would be a slightly very marginal increase in nippyness due to the obvious weight increase on the M4 Convertible. I've read all the forum threads from folk banging on about weight differences being a thing, and I have to admit, I was like "really, come off it, yea if you want to shave a second off your lap time around Spa then fair enough but out on the public roads no way is it a thing you'd notice".

Well, boy was I wrong there.

The M3 feels like the better car and I felt it the moment I took it off out from the dealership. It's smoother on the road, the steering during regular driving feels more precise and refined, the chassis feels tighter, it sounds louder... by that I mean the ASD seems to be cranked up significantly over the F83 (that might not be a good thing for many), it breaks traction on a straight when you put the hammer down whereas my F83 doesn't... the regular CP seats feels so much more snug than the convertible seats... I could go on.

The only non-cosmetic advantage to the F83 CP is that for some reason - the exhaust burbles and backfires seem to be louder and more pronounced on my F83, but that could simply be down to manufacturing tolerances and differences in production lines perhaps. And it's done a few hundred more miles than the F80.

Don't get me wrong, I knew the F83 was heavier and with that came the sacrifice of more weight - and more weight shifts will shift the centre of gravity and alter the driving dynamics, but I did not expect it to feel so obvious.

There is also the fact that they are a different chassis - the point being, anyone considering a purchase at this point really really does need to drive them all as there's more of a difference than I first thought between the M3 and M4 (convertible). I haven't had an extended stint in a F82 yet.

Other than it being down to purely differences in weight, I'd love to hear input on what else contributes to the significantly different feel between the two.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not regretting my purchase of the F83, I went for the convertible because I wanted a convertible, but damn that M3 is incredible. And frozen silver... what a colour.

Lol wow I went to look it up because I thought you were mistaken on the weight comparison. I was surprised to see that an M4 convertible was actually heavier than an M3 sedan! Who knew! (Probably everybody on this forum except me)

Two totally different beasts. You either want a convertible sports car or you want a sporty quasi family sedan. Weight, build, speed, feel, etc., I wouldn't think are the main points to consider when choosing between the two. One is a sedan first and a sports car second. The other is a convertible sports car first, and a decently sized car with modest space and seating second. Just my thoughts.

[CrossyN]

I know right, the weight difference is far from marginal either... 600lbs, that's the equivalent of having a morbidly obese immobile human flopped on the back seat!

[khanyam4]

weight, it makes all the difference.

[Wmf80]

Where in the world do they give u a frozen silver m3 as a loaner ?!

[CrossyN]

Originally Posted by wreckedmyf80

Where in the world do they give u a frozen silver m3 as a loaner ?!

It's a long story, in short...

I picked up new F83 CP, a week later I notice what looks like tire removal machine tool damage on a rim (couldn't inspect the car for a week due to severe snow storms), there's an indentation/scuff on the jack point of the car, dealership denies touching the wheel, I step up my complaint, they deny it some more, I go to BMW HQ, dealership still deny it but agree to pay for a rim refurb and give me that as a loaner in the interim. It's their demo car. Highly unlikely they loan it out under normal circumstances but I kicked up quite the stink.

I should get my F83 back tomorrow with the refurbed wheel, the stink will go toxic if it comes back off-colour.

[Wmf80]

Originally Posted by TFI

It's a long story, in short...

I picked up new F83 CP, a week later I notice what looks like tire removal machine tool damage on a rim (couldn't inspect the car for a week due to severe snow storms), there's an indentation/scuff on the jack point of the car, dealership denies touching the wheel, I step up my complaint, they deny it some more, I go to BMW HQ, dealership still deny it but agree to pay for a rim refurb and give me that as a loaner in the interim. It's their demo car. Highly unlikely they loan it out under normal circumstances but I kicked up quite the stink.

I should get my F83 back tomorrow with the refurbed wheel, the stink will go toxic if it comes back off-colour.

Would of demanded a new rim. new car = new rim. Supposedly these rims can only be refurbished once or twice. Best of luck

[CrossyN]

Originally Posted by wreckedmyf80

Would of demanded a new rim. new car = new rim. Supposedly these rims can only be refurbished once or twice. Best of luck

I did - but because they wouldn't admit blame they weren't entertaining a new rim, I can demand, but what can I do if they say no.

Because the damage wasn't highlighted until a week after I took collection, that was their window to deny all accountability. I've no doubt the chiefs who I'm dealing with genuinely believe that they didn't do it, but the evidence suggests otherwise, so we clashed heads and hit a stalemate with it.

[THEROK]

The M cabrio is such a waste of all that world class engineering goodness... just buy a boxster.

[CrossyN]

Originally Posted by THEROK

... just buy a boxster.

Great advice.

So I took back the F83 today, the rim looks... not great, but from more than a foot away you can't tell it's been refurbished.

But I can categorically confirm that the ASD is magnitudes louder in the M3... without a shadow of a doubt they've cranked that right up, to the point that it's almost like there is no ASD in the F83 CP.

There is a drastically different acoustic experience between the F80 CP and the F83 CP - even the exhaust note is different.

I've no idea if this is down to manufacturing tolerances but after spending 4 days with the F80 M3 CP, it's a thing.

[THEROK]

Originally Posted by TFI

I know right, the weight difference is far from marginal either... 600lbs, that's the equivalent of having a morbidly obese immobile human flopped on the back seat!

Or strapping one of these full of diabetes inducing goodies on your F8X... ALL THE TIME EVERWHERE

[projectmu]

I have owned F80 and then traded it in for F83 and then now am driving F82 GTS. The differences among them are so obvious that it will not take long for anybody to notice it. Definitely, F83 is not a proper one for who wants real performance car. When I first drove out from the dealership in a F83, I seriously thought something wrong with this car but I realized later that is normal lol...

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by TFI

So I took back the F83 today, the rim looks... not great, but from more than a foot away you can't tell it's been refurbished.

I had the same problem when my dealer scratched my rim when they serviced my car. I saw it right away when I picked up my car so they knew they did it. At first they tried to refurbish it but it didn't look like new so I threw a fit all the way up to the general manager and they finally agreed to buy me a new wheel.

[CrossyN]

Originally Posted by projectmu

I have owned F80 and then traded it in for F83 and then now am driving F82 GTS. The differences among them are so obvious that it will not take long for anybody to notice it. Definitely, F83 is not a proper one for who wants real performance car. When I first drove out from the dealership in a F83, I seriously thought something wrong with this car but I realized later that is normal lol...

I dunno what the non-CP F83 is like but the CP makes it feel worth the trade-off. There are obvious differences but after jumping back into the F83 CP, I don't feel like any regret.

Fact is, 99.9% of the time you're stuck behind vans and buses, queued at roundabouts, doing 25mph trapped behind Ethel and Bernie in their Citreon Picasso, then before you know it you're at work and repeat on the way home. For that 99.9% of the time, I'm more than happy to be doing it in a F83 CP.

It's a thing done to death already but it goes without saying, if you're buying to track it regularly, the F83 is not the one to go for.

[RickFLM4]

Compare the F83 to other convertibles, not the F80 and F82 for what should be obvious reasons. I am picking up an F83 next month and have no delusions that it will be the performance equivalent of my F82. Not sure why anyone would.

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by alex2364

I wish my dealer gives out M loaners. I'm lucky if they just offer a BMW loaner.

Lol I had to read that 3 times to make sure I was reading it right.

And CP too lmao. I get a nice X1 as a loaner

[jmg]

That's some loaner! Don't fret too much OP. The F83 is still a fantastic vert! You can't replicate that feeling of driving around with the
Top down either!

[M4Now!]

The weight difference is 500 pounds, not 600 - not that this particularly makes a difference.

I'm not surprised the F80 drives demonstrably better even off the track, there are compromises made in the F83 as they make it a vert. For me personally, these are compromises I'm willing to accept: Slightly less precise and doesn't handle quite as well (i.e. handles better and is faster than 90% of the cars on the road), and I get to put the top down and blast along with the wind in my hair. Deal

Cheers

[CrossyN]

I just went off two stats I found on Carfolio which put it at 600lbs, but indeed others have it at 500.

The point of this thread though wasn't to tell anyone who already understands the intricacies of driving dynamics something that they already know, it wasn't to preach to BMW enthusiasts who have already researched this inside and out, I can guarantee there'll be a more people than not who honestly have no idea that there's a tangible driving experience difference between the two cars.

Because no BMW marketing material will say that nor will their salesman say that the F83 is the lesser performance car!

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by TFI

Because no BMW marketing material will say that nor will their salesman say that the F83 is the lesser performance car!

If you're making purchasing decision based on marketing you basically deserve whatever you get.

Also, I heard the DCTs are faster than MTs - that's true, right?

Also, I heard the M4s are faster than M3s, also true, right?

Also spun crank hubs.

Also LCI is better

Also CP is better.

So anybody that has non-CP, non-LCI, non-DCT, non-coupe is driving an over-expensive shit box. HAHA!


I was thinking we might as well just get in all into one giant thread.