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      01-23-2020, 11:58 AM   #67
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Yes we will have an option for recirculated W/Gs! We are doing all the pre orders currently with the open dump style.
When would the recirculated wastegate option be available? I'm interested in this option.
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      02-15-2020, 08:47 PM   #68
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      02-20-2020, 12:52 AM   #69
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Very nice
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      02-24-2020, 09:45 AM   #70
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Damn the Doc Race IG posts of the manifold look amazing! Cant wait to see these hit the streets.
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      06-26-2020, 10:14 PM   #71
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Anyone make any track passes with this setup? Any good vids? Iíve only seen some quick Instagram ones
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      06-27-2020, 02:29 AM   #72
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Anyone make any track passes with this setup? Any good vids? Iíve only seen some quick Instagram ones
Check-out my page @bensbimmer
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      06-27-2020, 06:56 PM   #73
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Check-out my page @bensbimmer
Thanks! I did - car sounds good, was nice to see some better vids!
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      06-27-2020, 09:27 PM   #74
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Check-out my page @bensbimmer
Thanks! I did - car sounds good, was nice to see some better vids!
Thanks, I'm working on more footage tomorrow, stay tuned
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      10-20-2020, 04:16 AM   #75
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Please post data logs. What people are failing to ask is what does time to torque look like which is what they mean when they say "lag". Boost threshold and time to torque are two different things.

I looked at your kit and might consider ordering one if I don't end up fabricating one myself.

Had a couple questions;

I'm curious as to why you chose a T4 twinscroll housing instead of a vband inlet and outlet. Properly designed there is minimal difference in time to torque or boost threshold and is a hell of a lot easier to work with, plus you don't need the billion dollar merge collector

Why tial gates instead of turbosmart PWM EWGs? Fitment issues?

In the pictures on your website your dump tubes are RIDICULIOUSLY long, are you not concerned about cracking your manifold?

Is this 321 SCH40 or 304L?

Did you have to use a tight radius bend on cil #5 because of fitment issues trying to make it work with that merge collector?

Any word on that G42 turbo? I'm actually considering that or a custom comp. I haven't seen much hard data on the bigger G series in terms of transient response.

Would an EFR 9280 black fit there or is the cartridge just too big?


Thanks man. If you can answer everything and you're not using 304L I'll probably just buy a manifold from you and make the rest if you're willing to work with me.
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      10-20-2020, 12:19 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x622 View Post
I'm curious as to why you chose a T4 twinscroll housing instead of a vband inlet and outlet. Properly designed there is minimal difference in time to torque or boost threshold and is a hell of a lot easier to work with, plus you don't need the billion dollar merge collector
Hold up, for the record, there is a big difference in boost threshold/ time to torque when running V-band T3 vs T4 twinscroll. I have seen 500-1,000 rpm spool difference between the v-band/T4 TS on the same turbo on multiple engines, which makes a huge difference in driving characteristics.
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      10-20-2020, 05:26 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by chetrickerman View Post
Hold up, for the record, there is a big difference in boost threshold/ time to torque when running V-band T3 vs T4 twinscroll. I have seen 500-1,000 rpm spool difference between the v-band/T4 TS on the same turbo on multiple engines, which makes a huge difference in driving characteristics.

What kind of engines and platform? Did you see redesigns of the merge collector or see just slapped on vband flanges? My experience stems from testing a quantity of custom Comps, Garrets with Tial housings and some EFRs (7163, 7194 and 9180). I did not see anywhere close to this level of variance on any platform I've worked with (F22, K24, J32, 2jz, b18, ej257, 4g63 & lsx).

Worst I saw was a ~450rpm delta on a ej257 on a 76/108 compressor wheel + 42r turbine wheel on a custom garrett turbo (extended tip wheel), large frame compressor housing) but this was on a drag application and was a t6 vband. Granted this was still a POS subaru engine that doesn't breath at all, but you get the idea.

I think it's important to stress that tight radius bends, merge collector length and angle, as well as overall runner length play a larger role than going divided T4 than vband. It's not apples to apples to compare a super simple vband manifold with very short runners to a long runner front mount turbo on a s2000 f22 platform for example.

I'm not going to say I'm the end all be all expert on manifold design, but I've spent a good bit of time and built cars with real world results. I've also played with Quick spool valves and all sorts of other fun stuff, I am just mainly interested in building the fastest spooling (read, time to torque) m3 that I can get, and I'm between the G42 G series, custom comp and an EFR 9280 for my next setup.

to the OP: If your manifold is 304L would you take an extra payment and make it in 321?
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      10-20-2020, 10:10 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x622 View Post
What kind of engines and platform? Did you see redesigns of the merge collector or see just slapped on vband flanges? My experience stems from testing a quantity of custom Comps, Garrets with Tial housings and some EFRs (7163, 7194 and 9180). I did not see anywhere close to this level of variance on any platform I've worked with (F22, K24, J32, 2jz, b18, ej257, 4g63 & lsx).

Worst I saw was a ~450rpm delta on a ej257 on a 76/108 compressor wheel + 42r turbine wheel on a custom garrett turbo (extended tip wheel), large frame compressor housing) but this was on a drag application and was a t6 vband. Granted this was still a POS subaru engine that doesn't breath at all, but you get the idea.

I think it's important to stress that tight radius bends, merge collector length and angle, as well as overall runner length play a larger role than going divided T4 than vband. It's not apples to apples to compare a super simple vband manifold with very short runners to a long runner front mount turbo on a s2000 f22 platform for example.

I'm not going to say I'm the end all be all expert on manifold design, but I've spent a good bit of time and built cars with real world results. I've also played with Quick spool valves and all sorts of other fun stuff, I am just mainly interested in building the fastest spooling (read, time to torque) m3 that I can get, and I'm between the G42 G series, custom comp and an EFR 9280 for my next setup.

to the OP: If your manifold is 304L would you take an extra payment and make it in 321?
My experience is with 4g63, 4B11T, D16, B18, K20, 13B-MSP, S55 and B58. I noticed a much larger effect on transient response and spool up (time to torque) when going to T4 twinscroll from v-band or T3. Yes, runner diameter and length does play a part, but separating the exhaust pulses is what makes the biggest difference. I can see based on some of your experience how you would prioritize runner length and diameter over the type of flange used though. In those applications it does make sense. The merge collector was reshaped because of the different flange so that flow was properly directed at the turbine.

Also, the G42-1450 would not fit, we already tried. The G42-1200 compact may fit as the large compressor housing was the main fitment issue.

If you want the fastest spool, I would suggest the EFR 9274. That turbo with a short runner manifold on the S55 would be wicked. Im thinking of doing it myself.
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      10-21-2020, 03:09 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chetrickerman View Post
My experience is with 4g63, 4B11T, D16, B18, K20, 13B-MSP, S55 and B58. I noticed a much larger effect on transient response and spool up (time to torque) when going to T4 twinscroll from v-band or T3. Yes, runner diameter and length does play a part, but separating the exhaust pulses is what makes the biggest difference. I can see based on some of your experience how you would prioritize runner length and diameter over the type of flange used though. In those applications it does make sense. The merge collector was reshaped because of the different flange so that flow was properly directed at the turbine.

Also, the G42-1450 would not fit, we already tried. The G42-1200 compact may fit as the large compressor housing was the main fitment issue.

If you want the fastest spool, I would suggest the EFR 9274. That turbo with a short runner manifold on the S55 would be wicked. Im thinking of doing it myself.
Yeah, the 74mm turbine does not have the overspeed issues with it coming apart that the 80mm wheel does, but I have to question if it'd have enough flow to breath at the top end. I've done the 9174 on a F22 platform with extremely high compression and I ran out of turbine before I ran out of compressor.

How bad was the fit on the g42-1450? Have you seen the Comp CTX turbos? They can do up to a 78/108mm inducer on their mid-frame turbo and you pick which compressor housing you want, obviously the smaller housing the less efficient it is, but you should get some good power out of it. You can also spec extended tip or anything you want. They are very helpful in helping you get exactly what you need.

As for flanges, I like vband because it's not a complete pain in the ass to work with. Typically getting one of the bolts in a well designed manifold is a matter of compromise or making some custom tools to get it good n' tight. I had high hopes for the divided vband housings but they are the smaller t3 variety so completely not applicable for high power applications.

Yes, I do not like 304L and it always cracks over time if it's coated, and you wanted coated so it doesn't heat up your entire bay like an oven. 321 or inconel 725 are the only ways to go. Typically if you do a better material you can spec sch 10 and have some support for the turbo and have better high end flow at the expense of a bit of velocity at the lower end.
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      10-22-2020, 02:25 AM   #80
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How much power is this setup making now max effort E85? Can't wait to see what they can do.

There are a couple single turbo kits, I know they make good power. Just not seen anything ground breaking yet.

The powerband itself is enough to hold my interest.

Just haven't seen anything as far as quantifiable results from any of these single turbo kits yet. 60-130, 1/2 mile or even 1/4 times.
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      10-22-2020, 09:53 AM   #81
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Maybe they are still trying to figure out how to get traction?

There are 1,000whp+ cars that show up to hat races in trailers, put big money down to dig race,
and even these guys can't seem to keep the car in a straight line either.
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      10-23-2020, 03:20 AM   #82
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Maybe they are still trying to figure out how to get traction?

There are 1,000whp+ cars that show up to hat races in trailers, put big money down to dig race,
and even these guys can't seem to keep the car in a straight line either.

I would probably guess that's because of the rear suspension design on the F8x platform isn't great. There are bumpsteer issues because of the rear geometry (same as the s2000), and I don't really see most dig guys put any money into their suspension short of some basic kw v3s or springs because it's just supposed to work. There's a lot of knowledge in the Camaro and Mustang world about how to properly get an IRS to hook, but I'm sure nobody pays attention.


I think it comes down to platform really. My experience thus far with the German car crowd is that most people just buy parts and have a shop bolt them on without really a clue of anything other than x or y brand is better.


I'm still really eyeballing the EFR 9280. A short runner twinscroll or vband setup would be nasty. The OP still hasn't answered why he chose tial gates vs the turbosmart electric gates
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      10-23-2020, 04:03 AM   #83
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You are absolutely correct. Design can be much better and this is where I think complacency is starting to set in for the "///M" genius over in Germany.

Everyone consumer in our segment buys these cars and want to make big power, as fast as they can. So it becomes an arms race, and demand for latest new parts. Herd mentality at times. Then come to find that it's not as fun anymore because things start to break more often and they can't really put all that power to the ground.

Then you look at the Toyota B58 Supra platform, much much more efficient in propel its evolution of an M generation development and road.

We are definitely losing the arms race in the areas of aftermarket support relative to the mkv Supra, which came out many years later than the F8x platform (circa US 2015) yet they've already cracked into the 8s on the 1/4 mile just recently.

That's unacceptable to me. if I were running the performance division of a major car brand, I'm sorry but heads need to be
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      10-23-2020, 04:07 AM   #84
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And if you vote for me, as your President, I promise I'll do everything possible to immediately
abolish the ///M tax along with rampant price gouging!
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      10-23-2020, 07:57 AM   #85
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You are absolutely correct. Design can be much better and this is where I think complacency is starting to set in for the "///M" genius over in Germany.

Everyone consumer in our segment buys these cars and want to make big power, as fast as they can. So it becomes an arms race, and demand for latest new parts. Herd mentality at times. Then come to find that it's not as fun anymore because things start to break more often and they can't really put all that power to the ground.

Then you look at the Toyota B58 Supra platform, much much more efficient in propel its evolution of an M generation development and road.

We are definitely losing the arms race in the areas of aftermarket support relative to the mkv Supra, which came out many years later than the F8x platform (circa US 2015) yet they've already cracked into the 8s on the 1/4 mile just recently.

That's unacceptable to me. if I were running the performance division of a major car brand, I'm sorry but heads need to be
I never thought people bought this car, myself included to run 8 sec QTR mile times? It was more of a somewhat quick vehicle with loads of comfort. Just doesn't seem like the right vehicle to be doing that. Just my opinion.
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      10-23-2020, 12:08 PM   #86
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I never thought people bought this car, myself included to run 8 sec QTR mile times? It was more of a somewhat quick vehicle with loads of comfort. Just doesn't seem like the right vehicle to be doing that. Just my opinion.
There are enthusiasts I personally know who have personally spent above $100k on their personal F8x with one of the main objective being to hit 9 seconds. 1/4. Not including a few performance shops and amateurs who have already made it into the high 9 seconds 1/4 mile on this motor and chassis.

Coming from a VW/Audi background, and would assume BMW community would do something similar. I'm surprised less have tried using an older & lighter chassis with an S55 swapped. I know those cars and builds do exist (PBMW magazine) but I don't believe I recall they addressed the performance side in depth just yet.

Nevertheless, I guess it all goes back to the "intensity" of aftermarket support along with the level of "investment" enthusiast owners are willing to commit to. Something that both GTRs and Supra's receive a very healthy dosage of across all generations.

Being local here to Chicago, where AMS Performance resides, I already see the differences in market segmentation between the R35 platform versus F8x.
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      10-25-2020, 09:58 AM   #87
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There are enthusiasts I personally know who have personally spent above $100k on their personal F8x with one of the main objective being to hit 9 seconds. 1/4. Not including a few performance shops and amateurs who have already made it into the high 9 seconds 1/4 mile on this motor and chassis.

Coming from a VW/Audi background, and would assume BMW community would do something similar. I'm surprised less have tried using an older & lighter chassis with an S55 swapped. I know those cars and builds do exist (PBMW magazine) but I don't believe I recall they addressed the performance side in depth just yet.

Nevertheless, I guess it all goes back to the "intensity" of aftermarket support along with the level of "investment" enthusiast owners are willing to commit to. Something that both GTRs and Supra's receive a very healthy dosage of across all generations.

Being local here to Chicago, where AMS Performance resides, I already see the differences in market segmentation between the R35 platform versus F8x.
Well said buddy. There is always going to be way bigger aftermarket for the Japanese cars. AMS was definitely the Pioneer for the Gtr. I have a few of there parts on my GTR
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      10-26-2020, 09:41 AM   #88
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my car made 750whp on dyno jet with this kit, full e85 and methanol injection
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