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      03-08-2017, 08:02 PM   #23
RickFLM4
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As stated above, these aren't competitors that would typically be cross-shopped. Doesn't seem like a relevant question.
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      03-08-2017, 08:12 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by RickFLM4 View Post
As stated above, these aren't competitors that would typically be cross-shopped. Doesn't seem like a relevant question.
This is exactly why this shouldn't be a thread.

Just cuz the OP is in the car business doesn't necessarily mean the people asking him this question know what they are talking about.

You just do not put a American muscle car in the same conversation as a European car. You don't. Period.

People on the Dodge forum, those of them who aren't going to be outright bashing BMWs/Benz etc would generally tell you the same thing. You don't cross shop these cars.
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      03-08-2017, 08:44 PM   #25
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You do know it's made by Chrysler right?! No way!
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      03-08-2017, 08:47 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by shoe3k View Post
The Charger would be the better than the Challenger just because the Charger gets better traction and has four doors. Overall, the cars are in completely different worlds compared to the F80. I wouldn't even think of comparing the Hellcat to the BMW.
Yea but do you really like the looks of a charger over a challenger?

I think the challenger is way better looking.
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      03-08-2017, 08:54 PM   #27
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Looks aside and build quality/refinement as well, as most have already mentioned this conversation should not happen. 2 different cars for 2 different purposes. I personally wouldn't be shopping hellcat challenger or charger for that matter. I do appreciate the engine and it's unbelievable output but I don't think that car can put it's power down at all no matter what tyres you have on it because the chassis is shit and it's insanely overpowered for the chassis that it rides on. I still applaud them for putting it out there.

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      03-08-2017, 09:58 PM   #28
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I actually cross shopped them briefly, and test drove a Charger. It was actually a lot nicer than I had expected it to be, but just wasn't what I was looking for. At the end of the day, it's still just a Charger but with one seriously bad ass motor.

Edit - looked for a GT350 briefly also but refused to pay the ADMs they were asking. If I could have found a deal probably would have jumped on it, if I ignored fhe fact that I need 4 doors for the kids :-/

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      03-08-2017, 10:12 PM   #29
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I think the better comparison would be the Mustang GT/ Shelby and Camaro SS. Motor trend pitted a Camaro SS against an M4 and it was pretty close.

I've added the track times.

Frankly, I'm impressed on how the Mustang and Camaro are ridiculously close to the M's track performance for such a lower price.
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      03-09-2017, 01:51 AM   #30
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The Hellcat is a $70,000 motor with the rest of the car thrown in for free. At the risk of sounding elitist, for the most part, you are what you drive. That car is a piece of shit Chrysler 300 chassis with a massive motor. I'd be embarrassed to drive it except for during Halloween when I break out my Joe Dirt costume . Pass!
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      03-09-2017, 03:16 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyFactor22 View Post
The conversation has come up multiple times as to whether or not one would ever swap an F80 for a Charger or Challenger Hellcat.

Well....???
hell no, no Hellcats or any other American car for that matter. I had a Mustang 2013 Convertible, bought it brand new, the first day I tried pulling the seat lever to adjust the seat tilt angle, the handle plastic popped out in my hand. no more cheap American plasticy interiors for me!

BMW M4 is a refined luxury sports car, nuff said.
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      03-09-2017, 04:45 AM   #32
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I would think about it for sure. There arent many stock cars that are affordable with that kind of acceleration potential.

I suspect that if I didn't get one, it would be because of other factors like the car being too large or the dealership experience being poor.
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      03-09-2017, 05:13 AM   #33
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Nope!!
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      03-09-2017, 05:27 AM   #34
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no way, people don't cross shopping those two cars anyway. newer muscle cars did great, but they are still look like they belong to enterprise/avis/hertz.
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      03-09-2017, 09:19 AM   #35
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Yes. If I had an uncle die and left me a bunch of money. I impulsively bought a M3/m4 because I wanted people to look and make my self feel good. Then I realized I was the only person in my group/neighborhood/economic position that could even afford a BMW and realized I made a foolish mistake with free money so I am looking for something less flashy but would still make me feel awesome about spending uncle Edy's money. So I figure a hellcat was awesome enough but would not be looked at like I am some fool who bought a bimmer and people would think I was awesome for owning a hellcat.


Wow fiction writing is hard sometimes
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      03-09-2017, 09:55 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatepotholez View Post
I think the better comparison would be the Mustang GT/ Shelby and Camaro SS. Motor trend pitted a Camaro SS against an M4 and it was pretty close.

I've added the track times.

Frankly, I'm impressed on how the Mustang and Camaro are ridiculously close to the M's track performance for such a lower price.
Agreed this would be the only comparison - but once you sit inside a camaro while nicer than a hellcat it charger it's not the same as a m3/4 with full leather. So yes in terms of performance it's a great bargain(charger and mustang gt 350) but I do like my m4 full leather interior with executive package ..... while still being able to zoom zoom as much as possible as you can on regular roads without fear of going to jail....
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      03-09-2017, 12:52 PM   #37
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Not stock m5, cls, c7.


The same vette against the STOCK hellcat:


The same vette and the same stock hellcat(damn, that red key makes a difference):


So yeah, I'd take the cat anyday, because its a BEAST. It will destroy the m3-m5
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      03-09-2017, 09:02 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeATL View Post
I actually cross shopped them briefly, and test drove a Charger. It was actually a lot nicer than I had expected it to be, but just wasn't what I was looking for. At the end of the day, it's still just a Charger but with one seriously bad ass motor.

Edit - looked for a GT350 briefly also but refused to pay the ADMs they were asking. If I could have found a deal probably would have jumped on it, if I ignored fhe fact that I need 4 doors for the kids :-/
Yes I have noticed that with current American cars, however, at 30-40k miles the story changes drastically!!!! My M3 feels identical to the way it did with 6 miles now with 31k miles.

The first gen CTS-V's are a perfect example, they were pretty good, but then at ~70k miles all owners report they drastically fall off a cliff quality wise. They start to have nagging small issues, they drive trashy, etc.
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      03-09-2017, 10:33 PM   #39
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Driving fast in a straight line or having outrageous amounts of power that no one can fully use means very little.

The same could be said for the current Ms having too much torque/HP. I will never fully under stand people's need for HP when generally you will never be able to put it down fully. Quite a few people on the forums put 305s in the rear for the F8x on stock everything else and still will have a tad trouble putting all of the torque and HP down. A Charger/Camaro etc with 305s will be the same, in fact some of them come stock with 305s and it is the same thing.

F-Type, M5, M6 etc. All the current American muscle cars are the same. What would you achieve going faster then the dude next to you? Other than putting a smile on your face, what else would it bring you? The problem I always had with American branded cars aren't the car or the brand itself, it is the people behind the wheel and what they believe they represent that I have a problem with.

Anyone and everyone who love cars should love all cars, no matter how much they despise a brand. There is always something faster AND better. That is how the world works.
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      03-09-2017, 11:47 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Arcades View Post
Driving fast in a straight line or having outrageous amounts of power that no one can fully use means very little.

The same could be said for the current Ms having too much torque/HP. I will never fully under stand people's need for HP when generally you will never be able to put it down fully. Quite a few people on the forums put 305s in the rear for the F8x on stock everything else and still will have a tad trouble putting all of the torque and HP down. A Charger/Camaro etc with 305s will be the same, in fact some of them come stock with 305s and it is the same thing.

.
I dunno, I think there are many opportunities to use big hp. There are the 1/2 or 1 mile events, 1/4 mile drag racing, having fun in the canyons, etc

There's also doing a highway pull from 40-70 with a bunch of friends in the car. You need huge hp to still feel fast with +700lb of passengers/cargo

There's also switching to aggressive tire compounds so you can use the power in lower gears
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      03-10-2017, 12:48 AM   #41
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If you want a drag car. I would wait for the dodge demon.
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      03-10-2017, 12:56 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
I dunno, I think there are many opportunities to use big hp. There are the 1/2 or 1 mile events, 1/4 mile drag racing, having fun in the canyons, etc

There's also doing a highway pull from 40-70 with a bunch of friends in the car. You need huge hp to still feel fast with +700lb of passengers/cargo

There's also switching to aggressive tire compounds so you can use the power in lower gears
I personally wouldn't feel the need for it.

That could be due to where I live. I would wouldn't mind a Charger SRT, but some things about the Charger bugs me still.

I am still certain, in most daily cases you wouldn't be able to put all of this power to use. It is unrealistic but then again most people buy cars like this for another reason. It's the ability to, not that you can do it 100% of the time.
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      03-10-2017, 11:33 AM   #43
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Honestly, I would've gone with the charger hellcat over the f80 if I could've picked a hellcat up with the lease specials like they had last month. My friend picked up one for $780/mo with 3k due at signing. It all depends what you want from a car. People who buy these cars want a GT car that can pass pretty much everything in its path. I bet most of the people complaining that the car is "heavy" or a "boat" are unaware of the fact this car can handle just as good if not better than its competition at the track. It's figure 8 time is just under a ferrari f430 and a boss 302 (http://fastestlaps.com/tests/tolep6cgmkd7). For a car that weighs at least 1,000 lbs more than both of those cars, I'd say thats pretty incredible.

I like the hellcat but would probably never buy one, but if the lease is right price it would be hard to walk away. It's a lot of car for the money (literally) but you can't go wrong. If I didn't like to go to the track 4-6 times a year I think I would've ended up driving a hellcat
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      03-14-2017, 04:19 PM   #44
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I heard of leases as low as $630 month with $1300 at signing
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