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      01-13-2020, 05:38 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post
We are totally agreeing on every point^^

In summary:

- the DCT gearing not suited well to the S55 (too short for this type of powerband)
- the 6MT gearing is not suited well to the S65 (too long and widely spaced for this type of powerband)

Bizarre.
3) 6th gear on the F80 6MT too short for hwy use. Could've been much taller, the engine would take it and MPG & noise would improve.
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      01-13-2020, 05:53 PM   #24
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I recently got rid of my M4 and am in the process of getting another e90. They are vastly more enjoyable. THe f8x is numb and sounds terrible. Another problem with the f8x is it is simply too fast on public roads with very little fun factor. I found myself going 120 on public streets and there was no soul so it wasnt even that fun. E9x is the bet M you can buy
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      01-13-2020, 06:05 PM   #25
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OP, if you find a nicely configured E46 (6MT, slicktop, zcp, cloth seats) that's stock and in great shape I think you should get it.
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      01-13-2020, 10:48 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by swagon View Post
I don't want to judge too early, but judging by the leaked photos we have seen so far, I think the G80 will not look as good as the F80.
that's what everyone says until they will find out that it pulls 0-60 in 3.0 flat and mid 11s in 1/4 mile and runs 7:20s on the nurburgring.
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      01-13-2020, 10:48 PM   #27
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OP, if you find a nicely configured E46 (6MT, slicktop, zcp, cloth seats) that's stock and in great shape I think you should get it.
I'll surely be on the lookout! There seems to be an abundance of E46 going up for sale here in the Bay Area!
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      01-13-2020, 10:50 PM   #28
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I recently got rid of my M4 and am in the process of getting another e90. They are vastly more enjoyable. THe f8x is numb and sounds terrible. Another problem with the f8x is it is simply too fast on public roads with very little fun factor. I found myself going 120 on public streets and there was no soul so it wasnt even that fun. E9x is the bet M you can buy
I feel the same way in a bit.. there's just so much torque with these cars! A high-strung V8 sounds amazing too, not to mention raw. I think this is the type of driving engagement I'm looking for.
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      01-13-2020, 11:10 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by thomsonsss View Post
I feel the same way in a bit.. there's just so much torque with these cars! A high-strung V8 sounds amazing too, not to mention raw. I think this is the type of driving engagement I'm looking for.
Yes, except that other than the motor, everything else about the E9X is more refined/less edgy. This isn't good or bad, but the E9X is NOT a raw car.

It is badass and very fun, though, in the right scenario(s). The motor, once wound it, is for sure more rewarding than than the S55. No question. But if you don't windi it out it's far less rewarding, and that's my problem with that car.

I actually found the opposite of the dude above - the only way I could have fun in the E9X was to redline it which meant driving like a maniac - that's 110mph in 3rd gear in the 6MT for those wondering. Get stuck in the mid-range and it's a waiting game until the motor wakes up well north of 6krpm... very frustrating. The F80 is MUCH more fun at normal speeds because power. But then, the E9X has a lot more character and soul, so it's a dilemma for sure.

OP - I STRONGLY urge you to pay close attention to the mid-range response of the S65 in the real world. 4-6k rpm. Get the car in say 3rd or 4th gear at 4k rpm and them stomp the throttle. Do this on a warm day and even better on a slight incline. If you are satisfied with the results you will be happy with the car. Also, notice the dramatic response/character change of the motor precisely at 6750rpm all the way to redline - this is the MONEY zone. It's really a two-personality motor. It's very easy (trust me) to tell yourself that you'll just "keep the rpms up all the time" but that is FLAT OUT not realistic on the street. You must be okay with the sleepy mid and largely inaccessible peaky top.
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Last edited by EricSMG; 01-13-2020 at 11:24 PM..
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      01-13-2020, 11:33 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post
Yes, except that other than the motor, everything else about the E9X is more refined/less edgy. This isn't good or bad, but the E9X is NOT a raw car.

It is badass and very fun, though, in the right scenario(s). The motor, once wound it, is for sure more rewarding than than the S55. No question. But if you don't windi it out it's far less rewarding, and that's my problem with that car.

I actually found the opposite of the dude above - the only way I could have fun in the E9X was to redline it which meant driving like a maniac - that's 110mph in 3rd gear in the 6MT for those wondering. Get stuck in the mid-range and it's a waiting game until the motor wakes up well north of 6krpm... very frustrating. The F80 is MUCH more fun at normal speeds because power. But then, the E9X has a lot more character and soul, so it's a dilemma for sure.

OP - I STRONGLY urge you to pay close attention to the mid-range response of the S65 in the real world. 4-6k rpm. Get the car in say 3rd or 4th gear at 4k rpm and them stomp the throttle. Do this on a warm day and even better on a slight incline. If you are satisfied with the results you will be happy with the car. Also, notice the dramatic response/character change of the motor precisely at 6750rpm all the way to redline - this is the MONEY zone. It's really a two-personality motor. It's very easy (trust me) to tell yourself that you'll just "keep the rpms up all the time" but that is FLAT OUT not realistic on the street. You must be okay with the sleepy mid and largely inaccessible peaky top.
Thank you so much for the concise response. This definitely provides another interesting perspective and outlook on my scenario.
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      01-14-2020, 12:09 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by thomsonsss View Post
Thank you so much for the concise response. This definitely provides another interesting perspective and outlook on my scenario.
Now don't get me wrong. It's a killer car. Amazing steering, killer handling, awesome shifter, amazing ride quality, drool worthy sound and wicked screamer motor. It just needs a little more punch. I think a supercharger is probably the answer.... It'd be the ultimate M3.
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      01-14-2020, 04:31 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by stevehifi View Post
that's what everyone says until they will find out that it pulls 0-60 in 3.0 flat and mid 11s in 1/4 mile and runs 7:20s on the nurburgring.
Don't really care about straight line pulls and numbers.
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      01-14-2020, 01:16 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by thomsonsss View Post
I feel the same way in a bit.. there's just so much torque with these cars! A high-strung V8 sounds amazing too, not to mention raw. I think this is the type of driving engagement I'm looking for.
Yes Very true. I am a gt3rs owner so for me the closest I can get to that in a daily is the e9x m3. I guess itís all very subjective but there is no replacement for a high revving NA engine. Not to mention the F8x has this horrible electronic steering that feels like getting a handjob with 2 condoms on, very little feel. For the true enthusiast there is no replacement for a e9x m3. I would recommend getting DCT too. I had a 6mt and the engine was clearly made for DCT. I have had 100+ track days behind the wheel of my m4 and Iíve owned an e9x. The F8x is the best daily driver m3 and e9x is the BEST m3.

Pros about m4: tons of torque, you get 25mpg on highway, looks great, electronic diff

Cons: sounds bad, it has turbos, electronic steering, no feel.
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      01-14-2020, 03:39 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by CPWINCH View Post
Yes Very true. I am a gt3rs owner so for me the closest I can get to that in a daily is the e9x m3. I guess itís all very subjective but there is no replacement for a high revving NA engine. Not to mention the F8x has this horrible electronic steering that feels like getting a handjob with 2 condoms on, very little feel. For the true enthusiast there is no replacement for a e9x m3. I would recommend getting DCT too. I had a 6mt and the engine was clearly made for DCT. I have had 100+ track days behind the wheel of my m4 and Iíve owned an e9x. The F8x is the best daily driver m3 and e9x is the BEST m3.

Pros about m4: tons of torque, you get 25mpg on highway, looks great, electronic diff

Cons: sounds bad, it has turbos, electronic steering, no feel.
I was in the same boat I guess in that the 458 and gt3rs are both low displacement high revving motors. I went with the F80 though because it was different and can fill in where the 458 lacks (mainly torque and a manual). Thought about an E92.. but didn't make sense to have two very similar engines.

btw in regard to the steering... did you try coding the CS or GTS electronic power steering onto your M4? Even with the new 911s the steering is all electronic, there is no physical connection of the steering wheel to the road surface. Porsche just does the electronic coding better than BMW.

I do agree the f80 is the better daily. the E92 is the better weekend car and what I would pick if I was limited to just one car.
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      01-14-2020, 04:36 PM   #35
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I current have an e36 M3 (modded heavy for track, no power but handling). I owned a e92 m3 6MT previously, and have had the F82 6MT Comp for 3 years (exhaust and KW DDC). I've worked in shops have driven dozens of E46's ranging from no mods to track only cars.

The F82 is a better car, I might be getting out of mine just because I need a automatic car and I need to downsize, that aside though E46 is a smaller car thats where it wins but not by much, e36 is better in that aspect. E92 is bigger and you can feel it in its weight. Power is just loads better in the F82 I dont care what any reviewer says get in and drive it the F82 power is everywhere. E92 engine sound is epic but its not inspiring until your about 4500rpm (the rev from there is really awesome though), S54 is a legend but the s55 is more advanced and there is gobs more power. I love the S54 dont get me wrong but that s55 is so responsive for turbo engine it boguls my mind. I do miss the high reving engines and I do wish s55 was a bit more of a peaky engine but when you drive it it doesnt matter. Chassis wise I like the e36 just cause its small but the F82 feels way more planted then a e46 or e92 (or e36) stock for stock. F82 misses some feel but tires and coilovers will get that back, plus coding from what I've heard. Im keeping my F82 stock for now the engine has never made me wish I had more power as it has power everywhere. Who knows where values will go in the future but driving an F82 vs E92, I take the F82 everyday.... Sound is definetly eye of the beholder once you get a proper exhaust on either e46 (raspy and sometimes aftermarkets have drone) or F82, e92 sounds nice without any mods just too quiet stock anyways.
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      01-15-2020, 02:41 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
I was in the same boat I guess in that the 458 and gt3rs are both low displacement high revving motors. I went with the F80 though because it was different and can fill in where the 458 lacks (mainly torque and a manual). Thought about an E92.. but didn't make sense to have two very similar engines.

btw in regard to the steering... did you try coding the CS or GTS electronic power steering onto your M4? Even with the new 911s the steering is all electronic, there is no physical connection of the steering wheel to the road surface. Porsche just does the electronic coding better than BMW.

I do agree the f80 is the better daily. the E92 is the better weekend car and what I would pick if I was limited to just one car.
Yes very similar to the 458. Both 9k rpm screamers. But 4.0L on a 6 cylinder is pretty high displacement haha. I totally hear your points and think the f80 was the right choice for you. Good combo for sure.

Yes i had GTS steering coded. Also ran 295 tires up front and 315 in the rear. Had camber plates, coilovers, and other suspension pieces and just could never get the steering feel correct. I ran it in comfort steering, sport throttle and full dsc off and found that to be the most fun. Porsche does everything better than bmw haha.
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      07-15-2020, 02:15 PM   #37
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Having owned all M3/4's since 1995 all I can say is, the F8X is so much more capable. All of the old models had their magic and were great during their time but I can't see myself driving anything slower now specially on the track.
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      07-19-2020, 01:27 PM   #38
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Full disclosure, Iíve never driven an e90 m3. Based on looks only the f80 is a much more special looking car, the e90 looks too similar to a regular 335, and the interior is where I feel the e90 takes the biggest hit. It feels like a regular 3 series. I had a 2006 330i 6speed sport package and always dreamed of upgrading to an M3, but then I had a chance to drive the f80 and I fell in love with the interior and exterior, and effortless speed and power. The e90 m3 looked too similar to my regular old 330i. Iím sure the e90 would be a great car with some advantages over the f80 (steering feel, engine noise, lower initial cost), but the f80 won me over.
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      07-20-2020, 01:46 AM   #39
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My E90 is definitely a drama queen. She makes a ruckus everywhere she goes. I think that's one of the big appeals to the E9x M3, the noise, and how you're forced to drive it pretty aggressively because of the high rev motor. People say it lacks torque but I disagree, I think it feels quite lively for the majority of the powerband.

The F8x like some have said feels too fast for the street, especially when tuned. You just breathe on the gas and you're doing triple digits. The handling and braking are superior as well. I think that's why people call it soulless and sterile, it just does everything far better than the E9x but without any drama.

I never really fell in love with my DCT equipped E92 M3s so it was an easy pick, F8x all day every day, but I recently picked up a 6MT E90 M3 and I'm thoroughly enjoying the hell out of it. Oh boy, WHAT A DIFFERENCE transmission choice makes when it comes to this car and the overall driving experience. I'm finding myself driving my E90 more everyday.

Since the market is pretty stabilized for the E9x, I say find yourself a clean 6MT example and enjoy it! Wait till the F8x finish it's huge depreciation slide and see if you miss it enough to go back.
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      07-20-2020, 11:52 AM   #40
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I changed jobs and bought a house a few years back; my commute was going to make me go way over miles on my lease—I had equity so I dumped it for my second E46M as a commuter car. I love love love the rawness of my the E46's, the sound, the look.. but it's no F80. I'm back into my second F80 and from the looks of the new gen, I'll be here for a while.
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      07-31-2020, 12:34 AM   #41
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E46 M3 is by far the worst sounding M car ever made.

I dunno if it's due to a bit of revisionism spurred on by millennial YouTube auto channel peasants, but having owned one new, the in-cabin sound while decent was easily usurped by that buzzy chain saw anathema of a noise spoiling the party from the tail end.

Just as the E46 falls well short in aural talents, the E9X is easily the narrowest, most slab sided M design of all time. Zero road presence. Odd profile lines, no arse to speak of and a super lifted looking front end with a guppy mouth.

The F82 is the best looking M car released to date and it's got a potent and super reliable i6 that'll give you consistent power at whatever temp, altitude, lap after lap after lap. S55 is legit.

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      07-31-2020, 12:53 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THEROK View Post
E46 M3 is by far the worst sounding M car ever made.

I dunno if it's due to a bit of revisionism spurred on by millennial YouTube auto channel peasants, but having owned one new, the in-cabin sound while decent was easily usurped by that buzzy chain saw anathema of a noise spoiling the party from the tail end.

Just as the E46 falls well short in aural talents, the E9X is easily the narrowest, most slab sided M design of all time. Zero road presence. Odd profile lines, no arse to speak of and a super lifted looking front end with a guppy mouth.

The F82 is the best looking M car released to date and it's got a potent and super reliable i6 that'll give you consistent power at whatever temp, altitude, lap after lap after lap. S55 is legit.

My £.10

Put a CF Airbox on the E46 and it sounds so much better than any S55!

F82 is the best looking M Car? Jesus......what M Cars have you owned before the F82?
Super reliable 6 Cylinder? Not sure if we driving the same car...lol
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      07-31-2020, 01:02 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by THEROK View Post
E46 M3 is by far the worst sounding M car ever made.

I dunno if it's due to a bit of revisionism spurred on by millennial YouTube auto channel peasants, but having owned one new, the in-cabin sound while decent was easily usurped by that buzzy chain saw anathema of a noise spoiling the party from the tail end.

Just as the E46 falls well short in aural talents, the E9X is easily the narrowest, most slab sided M design of all time. Zero road presence. Odd profile lines, no arse to speak of and a super lifted looking front end with a guppy mouth.

The F82 is the best looking M car released to date and it's got a potent and super reliable i6 that'll give you consistent power at whatever temp, altitude, lap after lap after lap. S55 is legit.

My £.10

Put a CF Airbox on the E46 and it sounds so much better than any S55!

F82 is the best looking M Car? Jesus......what M Cars have you owned before the F82?
Super reliable 6 Cylinder? Not sure if we driving the same car...lol
What?
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      08-15-2020, 11:47 PM   #44
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I've owned all three and wouldn't go back from my F82. They are all awesome cars with different pros and cons but in the end the F8X is the way to go. Aside from the power of the F8X the E92 is my favorite to drive of the three with the E46 closely following.
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