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      06-11-2020, 11:41 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by guarnibl View Post
Congrats on the GT3. I'm a 981 spyder owner ( prev had M4, 911 TTS, E92 M3) ó the Porsche is really special with it's NA power delivery. I've got Dundon race headers on my spyder and it sounds like a cup car ! Insanity. Significantly better than how my e92 sounded even with an exhaust. I think they make the same setup for the Gt3. Very well respected company just like GMG , Sharkwerks etc. I don't mind the gearing as much as most I think. The power just wasn't very usable in the M4 but every ounce of it is in the Spyder.

Enjoy the 911. My DD is also a wrangler. Literally the perfect DD!

Really? Wrangler sucks as a daily driver IMO. Itís not comfortable, it cannot track straight, heavy lean on ALL turns, power is meh and it guzzles gas. I prefer driving my E90 330 to work and back vs my JL.
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      06-12-2020, 01:49 PM   #68
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Really? Wrangler sucks as a daily driver IMO. Itís not comfortable, it cannot track straight, heavy lean on ALL turns, power is meh and it guzzles gas. I prefer driving my E90 330 to work and back vs my JL.
So I also think the JL Wrangler is a fun alternate vehicle to a sports car and I'd say:

It's not super comfy
It doesn't like to track straight at least with stock A/T tires
It leans in all turns
Power is meh
Guzzles gas

And, oh yeah, it's fun to drive.

Do I like it on 2 hour drives? Not as much as some. Do I want to DD is 365 days a year? No. Is it a great vehicle to switch between with a sports car? Yep
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      06-12-2020, 01:57 PM   #69
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I don't make the rules

I also wasn't precise enough. You don't need to pin, but you can't run antifreeze if you don't pin
Good reference, thanks. That makes more sense to me. In the same rule they ban antifreeze in all sorts of PCA events for all vehicles, but nonetheless they definitely do specifically call out the GT1 engine (what's weird is they carry it into the 991 gt2/gt3 as well which I've never even heard of them having a similar issue and they don't use the GT1-derived engine).

Anywho....can I just go drive my car now?
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      06-12-2020, 04:23 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
So I also think the JL Wrangler is a fun alternate vehicle to a sports car and I'd say:

It's not super comfy
It doesn't like to track straight at least with stock A/T tires
It leans in all turns
Power is meh
Guzzles gas

And, oh yeah, it's fun to drive.

Do I like it on 2 hour drives? Not as much as some. Do I want to DD is 365 days a year? No. Is it a great vehicle to switch between with a sports car? Yep

Iím with you, itís fun, thatís why I bought one too, but no way Iíd get one as DD unless my drives were short to non existent like now lol
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      06-15-2020, 09:39 PM   #71
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Not sure if some have seen this but its a pretty good vid of the GT3 vs the F8x on the 'ring



What I wonder is, if the GT3 was actually in the lead and if the M3 could keep up.... wonder if the M3 is acting as an 'upper bound' in holding the gt3 back..

FWIW, it is a 997 GT3. so maybe this is what it is.
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      06-16-2020, 11:08 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlspeed29 View Post
Not sure if some have seen this but its a pretty good vid of the GT3 vs the F8x on the 'ring



What I wonder is, if the GT3 was actually in the lead and if the M3 could keep up.... wonder if the M3 is acting as an 'upper bound' in holding the gt3 back..

FWIW, it is a 997 GT3. so maybe this is what it is.
both cars are modified, check the video description. From a quick read:
GT3 has extra 25hp and loads of other mods
F80 has 517PS and other small modifications

Obivously F80 in this video better in straights but GT3 is better handling.
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      09-15-2020, 10:56 AM   #73
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I don't have a lot of experience with 911 but the price point of a GT3 makes me think twice. For example, you could source a good condition McLaren 570s or 650s if you are track focus and it will give you a more exotics car looks. But in terms of daily drive or reliability, Porsche is definitely better. Just my own ideas.
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      09-15-2020, 11:25 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by dwz View Post
I don't have a lot of experience with 911 but the price point of a GT3 makes me think twice. For example, you could source a good condition McLaren 570s or 650s if you are track focus and it will give you a more exotics car looks. But in terms of daily drive or reliability, Porsche is definitely better. Just my own ideas.
True they're all about the same price point. Assuming warranty on the McLaren (reliability concerns aside), take a McLaren for road/daily purposes, GT3 for track.

GT3's aren't good street cars. Tolerable at best to/from the track, between blasts up the rev range or through corners. You never hear that because all of the reviewers are giddy about the engine and enjoy the car for a few hrs at a time on mountain roads.
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      09-15-2020, 12:02 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwz View Post
I don't have a lot of experience with 911 but the price point of a GT3 makes me think twice. For example, you could source a good condition McLaren 570s or 650s if you are track focus and it will give you a more exotics car looks. But in terms of daily drive or reliability, Porsche is definitely better. Just my own ideas.
True they're all about the same price point. Assuming warranty on the McLaren (reliability concerns aside), take a McLaren for road/daily purposes, GT3 for track.

GT3's aren't good street cars. Tolerable at best to/from the track, between blasts up the rev range or through corners. You never hear that because all of the reviewers are giddy about the engine and enjoy the car for a few hrs at a time on mountain roads.
Yeah I agree with you especially about the reviews part.
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      09-15-2020, 01:25 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by dwz View Post
I don't have a lot of experience with 911 but the price point of a GT3 makes me think twice. For example, you could source a good condition McLaren 570s or 650s if you are track focus and it will give you a more exotics car looks. But in terms of daily drive or reliability, Porsche is definitely better. Just my own ideas.
true.

but some people are tired of all the dct+turbo setups. Porsche still offers a high rpm NA motor that can be paired with a manual. plus the Porsche reliability, dealer network, and even the forum knowledge in regard to DIY stuff are a step above McLaren.

you also have to factor in value retention. GT3 may be expensive, but you will get a good chunk of money back on your sale. Many 2018 GT3s are still asking close to MSRP after 6-7k miles.

meanwhile you can find 1 year old 600LTs for 60-80k off with the same miles or less.
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      09-15-2020, 01:44 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlspeed29 View Post
Not sure if some have seen this but its a pretty good vid of the GT3 vs the F8x on the 'ring



What I wonder is, if the GT3 was actually in the lead and if the M3 could keep up.... wonder if the M3 is acting as an 'upper bound' in holding the gt3 back..

FWIW, it is a 997 GT3. so maybe this is what it is.
997 GT3 had a 7:48 ring time

The F80 has done it in 7:52.

The M3 CS and M4 CS have done the ring in 7:38
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      09-15-2020, 02:15 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
997 GT3 had a 7:48 ring time

The F80 has done it in 7:52.

The M3 CS and M4 CS have done the ring in 7:38
Depending on conditions, the tire advancements from that 2006 test to the modern m3 cs can account for ~6-8 seconds difference on a course like the 'ring.

That 997 gt3 tested on modern MPSC2 tires would likely pull a ~7:40. Not saying it's faster than the CS, just that you need to account for tires.
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      09-15-2020, 07:33 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
Depending on conditions, the tire advancements from that 2006 test to the modern m3 cs can account for ~6-8 seconds difference on a course like the 'ring.

That 997 gt3 tested on modern MPSC2 tires would likely pull a ~7:40. Not saying it's faster than the CS, just that you need to account for tires.
Also, the Ring has gotten faster over the years too so another non standard piece of comparisons. M3/4 CS time benefited by 3-5 seconds from repaving of certain sections. So not only are you looking at much faster Cup tires today that equal 6-8 seconds but a track that on average runs 3-5 second faster overall. So really, the 997 GT3 could be a high 7:2x car or low 7:30 comparably (997.2).

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      09-15-2020, 07:56 PM   #80
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Congratulations to OP, just came across this thread. Absolutely gorgeous. I love my M4 more than anything, it's my realistic dream car. But if the right Porsche comes along at the right price... hate to say it but I'm going to convert too. Especially given the hideous G M4 renders :
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      09-15-2020, 09:19 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
Depending on conditions, the tire advancements from that 2006 test to the modern m3 cs can account for ~6-8 seconds difference on a course like the 'ring.

That 997 gt3 tested on modern MPSC2 tires would likely pull a ~7:40. Not saying it's faster than the CS, just that you need to account for tires.
Also, the Ring has gotten faster over the years too so another non standard piece of comparisons. M3/4 CS time benefited by 3-5 seconds from repaving of certain sections. So not only are you looking at much faster Cup tires today that equal 6-8 seconds but a track that on average runs 3-5 second faster overall. So really, the 997 GT3 could be a high 7:2x car or low 7:30 comparably.
I hope so. A 997 GT3 was one of my dream cars when they came out. They are pretty affordable now.
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      09-16-2020, 01:31 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwz View Post
I don't have a lot of experience with 911 but the price point of a GT3 makes me think twice. For example, you could source a good condition McLaren 570s or 650s if you are track focus and it will give you a more exotics car looks. But in terms of daily drive or reliability, Porsche is definitely better. Just my own ideas.
Okay so why does everyone assume that if you spend $100K+ on a car, you want attention? I'm perfectly happy to be invisible as possible in my GT3 /endrant.

That being said, I did consider a 570s or 650s instead of the GT3 since they're awesome to drive. However, realistically, you have to assume $8-$10K per YEAR in maintenance and warranty costs for the life of the car once it's out of the factory warranty. They are more reliable than they were from the original MP4-12C era, but should shit break, you're in for a nasty surprise- any minor repair is literally $3-5K. Plus all work really has to be done at a dealer because McLaren won't allow independent shops to buy parts. I'm in Atlanta, so there's a McLaren dealer here, but if you're in, say, Topeka, KS, you have to ship the damn thing for repairs. This is probably why you don't see a lot of "long term" McLaren owners.

On the flip side, Porsche's are generally very reliable and well built. Maintenance on my GT3 is really no different than an F8X. An oil change every 5k miles and spark plugs recommended every 10K miles. That's basically it. I just had an oil change service, brake fluid flush (due to age of my car) and spark plugs replaced and it was $600 at an indy using Motul fluids. I don't even think an oil change is that cheap on a 650s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
True they're all about the same price point. Assuming warranty on the McLaren (reliability concerns aside), take a McLaren for road/daily purposes, GT3 for track.

GT3's aren't good street cars. Tolerable at best to/from the track, between blasts up the rev range or through corners. You never hear that because all of the reviewers are giddy about the engine and enjoy the car for a few hrs at a time on mountain roads.
GT3 can be an pretty good street car- have you lived with one? The one major downside I've found in my GT3 for daily driving is the road noise. At 80mph it's pretty loud in the car though I'm sure a bit of it has to do with the Cup 2 tires. The engine is a little grumpy at low revs, but the ride is sublime. My F80 had a horrid ride in comparison- always felt too stiff, and the throttle was too touchy with the tune. Those of you that have loud exhausts, aggressive tunes, and coilovers on your F8Xs have it way worse in daily driving than I do in my GT3.

That being said, if I had to daily drive a long distance (say more than 20 miles) and sit in traffic for an hour each way, I'd definitely have chosen a 911 GTS; it has the (way) quieter ride, available radar cruise control, heated cooled seats, blind spot monitors, yada yada. But I'm fortunate to have been able to work from home for the past several years so a commute is of zero concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsm.m4 View Post
Congratulations to OP, just came across this thread. Absolutely gorgeous. I love my M4 more than anything, it's my realistic dream car. But if the right Porsche comes along at the right price... hate to say it but I'm going to convert too. Especially given the hideous G M4 renders :
Thanks! The ugly new M3/M4 grille+ (probably) not lovely sound track sealed the deal for me. The GT3 was/is my dream car and I have no regrets. It's better than I could have imagined and there's no looking back now.

Last edited by UGADawgFan; 09-16-2020 at 01:38 AM..
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      09-16-2020, 08:23 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by UGADawgFan View Post
GT3 can be an pretty good street car- have you lived with one? The one major downside I've found in my GT3 for daily driving is the road noise. At 80mph it's pretty loud in the car though I'm sure a bit of it has to do with the Cup 2 tires. The engine is a little grumpy at low revs, but the ride is sublime. My F80 had a horrid ride in comparison- always felt too stiff, and the throttle was too touchy with the tune. Those of you that have loud exhausts, aggressive tunes, and coilovers on your F8Xs have it way worse in daily driving than I do in my GT3.

That being said, if I had to daily drive a long distance (say more than 20 miles) and sit in traffic for an hour each way, I'd definitely have chosen a 911 GTS; it has the (way) quieter ride, available radar cruise control, heated cooled seats, blind spot monitors, yada yada. But I'm fortunate to have been able to work from home for the past several years so a commute is of zero concern.
.2 6MT.

Road noise definitely falls into the severe category, especially at highway speeds. Tire swap could make some difference, but not much. Not that you buy a GT3 for the radio but even the upgraded system can't compete with the cabin noise.

Visibility back isn't great.

In/out with buckets is fine provided you're fit. But good luck convincing wife or normal person it's something they'd want to do on the regular. (Sofas much easier I'm sure.)

Agree that ride quality is good for what it is.

For normal daily driving purposes or a highway trip with little opportunity to enjoy the performance of the car, you'd rather be in almost anything else -- GTS, Honda minivan, whatever.

Once the initial excitement of owning any car wears off, it tends to fall into use patterns according to its strengths. I grab the GT3 keys for a weekend blast on empty roads, or to the track.

Great engine though .
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      09-16-2020, 11:43 AM   #84
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.2 6MT.

Road noise definitely falls into the severe category, especially at highway speeds. Tire swap could make some difference, but not much. Not that you buy a GT3 for the radio but even the upgraded system can't compete with the cabin noise.

Visibility back isn't great.

In/out with buckets is fine provided you're fit. But good luck convincing wife or normal person it's something they'd want to do on the regular. (Sofas much easier I'm sure.)

Agree that ride quality is good for what it is.

For normal daily driving purposes or a highway trip with little opportunity to enjoy the performance of the car, you'd rather be in almost anything else -- GTS, Honda minivan, whatever.

Once the initial excitement of owning any car wears off, it tends to fall into use patterns according to its strengths. I grab the GT3 keys for a weekend blast on empty roads, or to the track.

Great engine though .
I was going to mention the rear visibility, but truth be told, I've gotten so used to it that it doesn't bother me anymore.

Mine has sofa seats, so they're great. Buckets, totally agree- no thanks as a daily. In and out took some getting used to because the car is far lower than any M3.

Stereo, 100% agree and it's something I'm going to need to address. I don't really care that much about sound quality in this car, but the sound package plus is painfully awful. The .2's got a Bose option, but in the .1, SPP was the max you could get.
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      09-16-2020, 11:55 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by UGADawgFan View Post
I was going to mention the rear visibility, but truth be told, I've gotten so used to it that it doesn't bother me anymore.

Mine has sofa seats, so they're great. Buckets, totally agree- no thanks as a daily. In and out took some getting used to because the car is far lower than any M3.

Stereo, 100% agree and it's something I'm going to need to address. I don't really care that much about sound quality in this car, but the sound package plus is painfully awful. The .2's got a Bose option, but in the .1, SPP was the max you could get.
I have the Bose... can't be much better. Short of adding deadening, I'm not sure what could be done about the road noise. I guess a crazy aftermarket system to overpower everything.

Have found that when I keep the revs between 7-9k I don't notice anything else.
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      09-28-2020, 06:13 PM   #86
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congrats! I drove a 911 turbo once and man.......that thing was a beast!
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      09-28-2020, 10:20 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by UGADawgFan View Post
Okay so why does everyone assume that if you spend $100K+ on a car, you want attention? I'm perfectly happy to be invisible as possible in my GT3 /endrant.

That being said, I did consider a 570s or 650s instead of the GT3 since they're awesome to drive. However, realistically, you have to assume $8-$10K per YEAR in maintenance and warranty costs for the life of the car once it's out of the factory warranty. They are more reliable than they were from the original MP4-12C era, but should shit break, you're in for a nasty surprise- any minor repair is literally $3-5K. Plus all work really has to be done at a dealer because McLaren won't allow independent shops to buy parts. I'm in Atlanta, so there's a McLaren dealer here, but if you're in, say, Topeka, KS, you have to ship the damn thing for repairs. This is probably why you don't see a lot of "long term" McLaren owners.

On the flip side, Porsche's are generally very reliable and well built. Maintenance on my GT3 is really no different than an F8X. An oil change every 5k miles and spark plugs recommended every 10K miles. That's basically it. I just had an oil change service, brake fluid flush (due to age of my car) and spark plugs replaced and it was $600 at an indy using Motul fluids. I don't even think an oil change is that cheap on a 650s.



GT3 can be an pretty good street car- have you lived with one? The one major downside I've found in my GT3 for daily driving is the road noise. At 80mph it's pretty loud in the car though I'm sure a bit of it has to do with the Cup 2 tires. The engine is a little grumpy at low revs, but the ride is sublime. My F80 had a horrid ride in comparison- always felt too stiff, and the throttle was too touchy with the tune. Those of you that have loud exhausts, aggressive tunes, and coilovers on your F8Xs have it way worse in daily driving than I do in my GT3.

That being said, if I had to daily drive a long distance (say more than 20 miles) and sit in traffic for an hour each way, I'd definitely have chosen a 911 GTS; it has the (way) quieter ride, available radar cruise control, heated cooled seats, blind spot monitors, yada yada. But I'm fortunate to have been able to work from home for the past several years so a commute is of zero concern.


Thanks! The ugly new M3/M4 grille+ (probably) not lovely sound track sealed the deal for me. The GT3 was/is my dream car and I have no regrets. It's better than I could have imagined and there's no looking back now.
I really have not had issues with the ride quality of my M3 since switching to KW DDC. I find the ride of my M3 better than that of my Macan S. I would point out my Macan S has fixed suspension, not air. The GTS I have on order does have it by standard. Yes, the M-DCT does have... a rather unique characteristic, due to the early torque of the S55 but I prefer it this way. I don't hate the linear power delivery of the GT3 (991.2) but I just like the feel of the early torque that kicks you in the butt.

Most people in my little circle of friends aims for a GT4 (718) or GT3 (991.2/992) sooner or later. I was... kind of in that circle, even really searched start of this year but I stopped half way for the primary reason of, I do not like used cars. No matter how tempting. I am far too OCD for used cars.

There are clear trade offs between these two types of cars. I get rid of one, I'd regret losing the other. I cannot do both as I would need a daily... soo instead of trying to choose between a GT3 or F80, I just decided not to decide and grab a Macan GTS instead because screw that boring X3M Comp.
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      10-02-2020, 08:05 PM   #88
jc05e46m3
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Originally Posted by dwz View Post
I don't have a lot of experience with 911 but the price point of a GT3 makes me think twice. For example, you could source a good condition McLaren 570s or 650s if you are track focus and it will give you a more exotics car looks. But in terms of daily drive or reliability, Porsche is definitely better. Just my own ideas.
Okay so why does everyone assume that if you spend $100K+ on a car, you want attention? I'm perfectly happy to be invisible as possible in my GT3 /endrant.

That being said, I did consider a 570s or 650s instead of the GT3 since they're awesome to drive. However, realistically, you have to assume $8-$10K per YEAR in maintenance and warranty costs for the life of the car once it's out of the factory warranty. They are more reliable than they were from the original MP4-12C era, but should shit break, you're in for a nasty surprise- any minor repair is literally $3-5K. Plus all work really has to be done at a dealer because McLaren won't allow independent shops to buy parts. I'm in Atlanta, so there's a McLaren dealer here, but if you're in, say, Topeka, KS, you have to ship the damn thing for repairs. This is probably why you don't see a lot of "long term" McLaren owners.

On the flip side, Porsche's are generally very reliable and well built. Maintenance on my GT3 is really no different than an F8X. An oil change every 5k miles and spark plugs recommended every 10K miles. That's basically it. I just had an oil change service, brake fluid flush (due to age of my car) and spark plugs replaced and it was $600 at an indy using Motul fluids. I don't even think an oil change is that cheap on a 650s.

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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
True they're all about the same price point. Assuming warranty on the McLaren (reliability concerns aside), take a McLaren for road/daily purposes, GT3 for track.

GT3's aren't good street cars. Tolerable at best to/from the track, between blasts up the rev range or through corners. You never hear that because all of the reviewers are giddy about the engine and enjoy the car for a few hrs at a time on mountain roads.
GT3 can be an pretty good street car- have you lived with one? The one major downside I've found in my GT3 for daily driving is the road noise. At 80mph it's pretty loud in the car though I'm sure a bit of it has to do with the Cup 2 tires. The engine is a little grumpy at low revs, but the ride is sublime. My F80 had a horrid ride in comparison- always felt too stiff, and the throttle was too touchy with the tune. Those of you that have loud exhausts, aggressive tunes, and coilovers on your F8Xs have it way worse in daily driving than I do in my GT3.

That being said, if I had to daily drive a long distance (say more than 20 miles) and sit in traffic for an hour each way, I'd definitely have chosen a 911 GTS; it has the (way) quieter ride, available radar cruise control, heated cooled seats, blind spot monitors, yada yada. But I'm fortunate to have been able to work from home for the past several years so a commute is of zero concern.

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Originally Posted by bsm.m4 View Post
Congratulations to OP, just came across this thread. Absolutely gorgeous. I love my M4 more than anything, it's my realistic dream car. But if the right Porsche comes along at the right price... hate to say it but I'm going to convert too. Especially given the hideous G M4 renders :
Thanks! The ugly new M3/M4 grille+ (probably) not lovely sound track sealed the deal for me. The GT3 was/is my dream car and I have no regrets. It's better than I could have imagined and there's no looking back now.
Agree on many of your points.

I cross-shopped with 458/Huracan/etc. but actually went against those options because of the attention. My GT-R was a magnet for all ages and it got old quite fast.

I like the GT3 because aside from being loud, most people don't know the difference between 911s.

I have the full buckets and after a spine surgery in January, they can be a literal pain on longer drives. I know there's a company in the aftermarket that makes some of the inserts with significant padding, but would like to see some in person first.

Glad you're enjoying it!
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