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      06-09-2020, 01:47 PM   #1
Maitre_Absolut
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991.2 4GTS

When I bought my M3 CS I was selling my Macan GTS and looking at an almost new high spec 18 C4S. Numbers were still too high so went with M3.

Recently spotted a 17 4GTS that caught my eye, 8k miles, similar spec as the 4S from 2 years ago (miami blue) but GTS this time.

M3 made sense at the time because family etc. Since then upgraded family car from X2 to SQ5 so using that alot more (I didnt like driving the X2), so M3 getting less family use.

Now with COVID, M3 is even more of a fun car only, even the SQ5 is seemingly parked all day. Basically in a better position to sell the wife on a 911 than previously. Boys are 5 and 8 so they fit in the back of a 911 and AWD is an upgrade on the M3's RWD those few snow days. In reality I could probably put my car away for the winter going forward with working from home and one car for the family.

Is GTS that much more eventful to drive than an M3? I love my CS, with MPE and MPHAS its finally perfect, though it annoys me that I had to spend on top of CS premium to get there.

I know I would eventually need some sort of exhaust mod, hoping that would be the end of it on a GTS.

Price wise I feel the GTS' are waaay to close to the GT3s when there is a substantial driving experience delta. Demand must be high for GTS 4 due to practicality (2+2 and winter) but I'd hate to spend that much and still be so far away from the ultimate GT3 experience.

There are 0 M3 CS for sale in Canada right now so that could get me better re-sale. CDN vs US MSRP and current exchange would also make it interesting to sell to US buyer.

Anyways maybe I will go test drive. If not blown away, keeping my CS.


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      06-09-2020, 03:19 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut View Post
.

Price wise I feel the GTS' are waaay to close to the GT3s when there is a substantial driving experience delta. Demand must be high for GTS 4 due to practicality (2+2 and winter) but I'd hate to spend that much and still be so far away from the ultimate GT3 experience.
You answered your own question.

Get a smoking deal so you won’t feel any buyer’s remorse or else just keep saying “GT or bust”
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      06-10-2020, 04:58 PM   #3
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yeah if you have the money for a GT Porsche there is no point in looking at the base models imo. SQ5 + GT3 would be a solid garage. SQ5 and 4GTS seems a little redundant with both being awd and turbo 6 cylinders.

really just depends if you lust after GT3s and high rpm NA cars... or more of a 911 turbo fan. The .2 cars are no joke. The GTS already runs like an 11.0 1/4 mile stock, and with a tune + exhaust you basically running the same 1/4 miles as the 991.1 Turbo. You would destroy GT3s and M3s at the lights if that's your thing.
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      06-10-2020, 08:30 PM   #4
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From what I have researched and heard from owners of 4S and 4GTS, is that the premium for a 4GTS isn't worth it. Either go 4S or GT3. I was highly debating getting a 4GTS last year but the price is just too high up there tbh. 991.2 4S is the goal after the F80 phase.
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      06-10-2020, 09:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
yeah if you have the money for a GT Porsche there is no point in looking at the base models imo. SQ5 + GT3 would be a solid garage. SQ5 and 4GTS seems a little redundant with both being awd and turbo 6 cylinders.

really just depends if you lust after GT3s and high rpm NA cars... or more of a 911 turbo fan. The .2 cars are no joke. The GTS already runs like an 11.0 1/4 mile stock, and with a tune + exhaust you basically running the same 1/4 miles as the 991.1 Turbo. You would destroy GT3s and M3s at the lights if that's your thing.
Need 4 seats so GT3 is out of the question. Absolute speed is not my thing, how you get there is. Just annoys me that GT3 and GTS prices are not that far apart when I feel you settle for a GTS.

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Originally Posted by 11LMBiSTT View Post
From what I have researched and heard from owners of 4S and 4GTS, is that the premium for a 4GTS isn't worth it. Either go 4S or GT3. I was highly debating getting a 4GTS last year but the price is just too high up there tbh. 991.2 4S is the goal after the F80 phase.
That is interesting. Saw the Nick Murrary 4S vs GTS review and says the same thing but hes biased as a 4S owner. Its much more difficult finding a properly specc'd 4S (essentially one that looks like a GTS) as the 4S I was looking at 2 years ago did.
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      06-11-2020, 11:50 AM   #6
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If you look at folks who are not purchasing a track toy and who have actually driven the Carrera T, C2S, C4S, GTS (c2 or C4), and GT3 and could afford any of them....

You'll find very few who wind up in the GT3.

The "driving experience" is that of a purist track car with enough comfort/capability for the street. It is a very compromised street vehicle and offers a lesser experience in everyday driving (IMHO) than those "lesser" cars.

If I was shopping a 991.2 right now, I'd look at CPO Carrera T's (Only in manual transmission) or C4S (in either manual or PDK). Those are your sweet spots for everyday driving joy. The GTS offers a bit more of the C4S for more money - not a value proposition. If you want PDK and speed daily and your budget can swing it, go 911 turbo.

For me when it comes time to try out a 991.2 it'll be Carrera T or C4S and the deciding factor will most likely be traction in PA. One of my biggest complaints of the f80 m3 was with it's power delivery, weight distribution, and rear suspension setup it struggled a good amount to put down power effectively below 60 degrees fahrenheit or on wet roads, which PA is literally one or both of those 1/2 of all days of the year.
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      06-12-2020, 12:24 AM   #7
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OP, GT3 is a fantastic car, but the owners I know dread daily driving it because of its harshness. According to them.

The GTS is a fantastic car. If you could swing it over the C4S then I'd definitely go for it. I've driven both and preferred the GTS all day. You should drive both though and see if the cost delta is worth it.
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      06-12-2020, 07:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut View Post
Need 4 seats so GT3 is out of the question. Absolute speed is not my thing, how you get there is. Just annoys me that GT3 and GTS prices are not that far apart when I feel you settle for a GTS.
Maybe rethink this a bit. You're only "settling" insofar as you're not opting for the track car with direct Porsche motorsport connection. If that's not what you're after, proceed knowing that the GTS is the better, more functional, maybe even more enjoyable car, especially in or around Toronto. In more ways than just having a back seat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
If you look at folks who are not purchasing a track toy and who have actually driven the Carrera T, C2S, C4S, GTS (c2 or C4), and GT3 and could afford any of them....

You'll find very few who wind up in the GT3.

The "driving experience" is that of a purist track car with enough comfort/capability for the street. It is a very compromised street vehicle and offers a lesser experience in everyday driving (IMHO) than those "lesser" cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paliknight View Post
OP, GT3 is a fantastic car, but the owners I know dread daily driving it because of its harshness. According to them.
All of this is pretty spot on. Believe people misinterpret the "standard" GT3 because of the RS. In reality, GT3 vs. RS is like track car vs. better track car.

The base GT3 is no grand tourer.

OP, based upon your comment, engine characteristics are important. Have you driven a .1 GTS? That is a really sweet engine. Can still get them CPO last I looked.
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      06-12-2020, 09:24 AM   #9
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gorgeous car. Always loved Miami blue - if you can swing it do it!

I didnt closely track the M3 CS market but i know the dealer who i bought my used M3 base from last year had a M4 CS that took a loooong time to move (London, ON). M3 body might be in higher demand, but I think you're spot on - flipping the car to the US market is the best bet as our dollar took such a beating and the market prices don't reflect the shitty exchange rate.
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      06-12-2020, 11:56 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut View Post
Need 4 seats so GT3 is out of the question. Absolute speed is not my thing, how you get there is.
if you haven't check out Vantage

Nice v8 sounds, more usable back seat, and they are super depreciated
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      06-12-2020, 12:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post

OP, based upon your comment, engine characteristics are important. Have you driven a .1 GTS? That is a really sweet engine. Can still get them CPO last I looked.
For what it's worth, you can also put rear seats in a 997.2 gt3.
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      06-12-2020, 04:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post

OP, based upon your comment, engine characteristics are important. Have you driven a .1 GTS? That is a really sweet engine. Can still get them CPO last I looked.
not many for sale, would prefer some warranty. Ive read about issues with that engine (hesitation) and might feel underpowered compared to my CS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
if you haven't check out Vantage

Nice v8 sounds, more usable back seat, and they are super depreciated
I dont know of a vantage with rear seats, do you mean rapide?


Finally got around to driving my CS today, love this car. Not sure Ill be that much happier in Porsche.
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      06-12-2020, 05:06 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut View Post
not many for sale, would prefer some warranty. Ive read about issues with that engine (hesitation) and might feel underpowered compared to my CS.



I dont know of a vantage with rear seats, do you mean rapide?


Finally got around to driving my CS today, love this car. Not sure Ill be that much happier in Porsche.
Yea I got them confused. Vanquish is the one with the 2+2 option, or dbs, db11 etc

My overall point was that for a daily driver street only 2+2 in that >$100k price class, Aston could be a better choice than porsche.

I don’t think you’ll be much happier in a non GT porsche, but it comes down to how much you value saying “I drive a 911”
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      06-13-2020, 04:38 PM   #14
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Get a GTS and throw a tune on it.
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      06-14-2020, 09:20 AM   #15
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Get a GTS and throw a tune on it.
dont care for cheap thrill nature of tuning ecu. Never have, never will.
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      06-14-2020, 12:31 PM   #16
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911 GTS and M3 Cs are not on same level.
First thing you will notice in GTS "i have traction in 1st and 2nd gear"
Simply 911 is better in every aspect, traction, braking, handling, build quality etc
Do the test drive and you will be sold.
And yes 911 is much more joyful to drive than any M3/4
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      06-14-2020, 10:38 PM   #17
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I just test drove a 2018 GTS and M3 isn't even close to it. The GTS as a package is so much more than the M3. The damping is on a whole other level in comfort and control. I drove a PDCC car and the comfort and compliance is shocking compared to the M3. Push it hard and the handling is shocking in the other direction. The PDK is astonishingly good, so quick and intuitive. Shifts snap in Sport Plus.

I love my M3, but I'm putting mine up for sale to get a 991.2 GTS.

I drove a 2wd GTS and the steering was telepathic. It's an amazing machine.
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      06-15-2020, 08:20 PM   #18
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I'll be making a similar move this Summer and won't ever look back.

I flogged the 992 Carrera S at the Porsche center in Carson, CA a few months ago. Though I prefer the 997 size, the outright power in these new "civic" 911s is levels above the souped up 4-series I've had the pleasure of driving the past 3 years. 992 looks markedly better than similar trim 991 in the flesh.
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      06-15-2020, 09:26 PM   #19
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seems like F8X to a 911 is a natural progression for many, myself included..

I think a 911t as some others have mentioned here may deliver the driving experience/connection many are looking for
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      06-15-2020, 11:23 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
If you look at folks who are not purchasing a track toy and who have actually driven the Carrera T, C2S, C4S, GTS (c2 or C4), and GT3 and could afford any of them....

You'll find very few who wind up in the GT3.

The "driving experience" is that of a purist track car with enough comfort/capability for the street. It is a very compromised street vehicle and offers a lesser experience in everyday driving (IMHO) than those "lesser" cars.

If I was shopping a 991.2 right now, I'd look at CPO Carrera T's (Only in manual transmission) or C4S (in either manual or PDK). Those are your sweet spots for everyday driving joy. The GTS offers a bit more of the C4S for more money - not a value proposition. If you want PDK and speed daily and your budget can swing it, go 911 turbo.

For me when it comes time to try out a 991.2 it'll be Carrera T or C4S and the deciding factor will most likely be traction in PA. One of my biggest complaints of the f80 m3 was with it's power delivery, weight distribution, and rear suspension setup it struggled a good amount to put down power effectively below 60 degrees fahrenheit or on wet roads, which PA is literally one or both of those 1/2 of all days of the year.
I agree with this, 991.2 CT or CS/C4S are great choices, especially when used and depreciated a bit, since they seem to be lower priced than GTS' by a considerable amount. I'm looking to get into a 991.2 CT next year as the 992 doesn't do much for me, aren't many available used yet (with some mileage and depreciation), and are having some issues early in their cycle, and of course I prefer spending a little less money since I will likely be swapping two vehicles for one.
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Last edited by stein_325i; 06-15-2020 at 11:31 PM..
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      06-16-2020, 08:42 AM   #21
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I agree with this, 991.2 CT or CS/C4S are great choices, especially when used and depreciated a bit, since they seem to be lower priced than GTS' by a considerable amount. I'm looking to get into a 991.2 CT next year as the 992 doesn't do much for me, aren't many available used yet (with some mileage and depreciation), and are having some issues early in their cycle, and of course I prefer spending a little less money since I will likely be swapping two vehicles for one.
So I just picked up a 997.1 turbo 6mt which I'm enjoying immensely. Plan on tune/exhaust and not sure how long i'll keep it (year minimum).

After that going to strongly consider a 991.2 CT once it's hit a more depreciated sweet spot. Right now they are super low mileage and holding strong on their prices.
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      06-16-2020, 08:57 AM   #22
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This particular car is now pending sale and I couldn't bring myself to put an ad up for mine so staying put!
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