Autotalent
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-21-2020, 06:42 AM   #45
DuMa M3
Enlisted Member
12
Rep
30
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Any real world testing or results yet from this kit ?
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2020, 02:15 PM   #46
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
4600
Rep
16,836
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2018 BMW i3s  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [5.00]
2015 BMW M4  [3.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuMa M3 View Post
Any real world testing or results yet from this kit ?
Pumps are installed, waiting on confirmation of tuning session with Cary. Will update once info is available.
__________________
Tom G. | european auto source (eas)
email: tom@europeanautosource.com web: www.europeanautosource.com tel 866.669.0705 ca: 714.369.8524 x22

GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG FACEBOOK YOUTUBE FLICKR INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 2
      10-21-2020, 06:03 PM   #47
Bluer2
Lieutenant
249
Rep
567
Posts

Drives: M4
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Houston

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Pumps are installed, waiting on confirmation of tuning session with Cary. Will update once info is available.
any pics of the installed pumps? I wanna see where they are mounted, is it next to the turbos?
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2020, 06:04 PM   #48
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
4600
Rep
16,836
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2018 BMW i3s  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [5.00]
2015 BMW M4  [3.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluer2 View Post
any pics of the installed pumps? I wanna see where they are mounted, is it next to the turbos?
We'll post pics as soon as everything is wrapped up and finished.
__________________
Tom G. | european auto source (eas)
email: tom@europeanautosource.com web: www.europeanautosource.com tel 866.669.0705 ca: 714.369.8524 x22

GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG FACEBOOK YOUTUBE FLICKR INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2020, 07:17 PM   #49
M2C_OZ
Private First Class
M2C_OZ's Avatar
United_States
118
Rep
121
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2 Competition
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Masachusetts

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by papasmurf_m3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukir View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by papasmurf_m3 View Post
Sounds promising! Can't wait to hear more about it.

Ian from Bend Calibration is helping me tune a max effort map on E50 and so far the car loves it. I tried E60 and the pump was showing signs of pressure loss. So we went back to E50 for now. Before meth.

And yes I've head there is a work around that some tuners use to run full E85 by lowering load limits etc. But, the true limit of the fuel system is E60.
True Limit of the fuel system is E60 on stock turbos?
The hpfp starts crashing after e60.

It's not dependent on hardware it's the ethanol content and limitations of the factory fuel system.
Lies, i can show my logs. Im running pump E85 (usually measures around 75-82) and my HPFP does not show signs of crashing whatsoever.
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2020, 10:02 PM   #50
Commanderwiggin
Captain
Commanderwiggin's Avatar
United_States
1106
Rep
815
Posts

Drives: 19 M2C;12 X5 35D;Turbo E46 M3
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Socal

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M2C_OZ View Post
Lies, i can show my logs. Im running pump E85 (usually measures around 75-82) and my HPFP does not show signs of crashing whatsoever.
It all depends how much torque you're targetting...the higher the ethanol content, the lower loads you can run.

I'm fully flex from the same tuner and can run any content; but I have torque targets adjusted for the different ethanol content to ensure there isn't an issue.
If you want to make the most power, you're not going to make it on 80% ethanol unless you have additional fueling.
__________________
575RWHP F87 M2C - ECUTEK RACEROM with flex fuel tuning by Bend Calibration
1000+RWHP E46 M3, Lab22 Built Turbo S54, Bend Calibration Tuned - BMW Half Mile Record Holder
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2020, 10:28 PM   #51
///BMW Junkie
Captain
///BMW Junkie's Avatar
United_States
200
Rep
658
Posts

Drives: AW M4
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Washington DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M2C_OZ View Post
Lies, i can show my logs. Im running pump E85 (usually measures around 75-82) and my HPFP does not show signs of crashing whatsoever.
It all depends how much torque you're targetting...the higher the ethanol content, the lower loads you can run.

I'm fully flex from the same tuner and can run any content; but I have torque targets adjusted for the different ethanol content to ensure there isn't an issue.
If you want to make the most power, you're not going to make it on 80% ethanol unless you have additional fueling.
Just to clarify you're talking stock turbos?
__________________
///M4 | BM3/JordanTuned | PS2 Plus 2.5
VRSF DP | FTP CP | BMC Drop In
APEX SM10/PS4S | M Performance Cosmetics

Past: AW E92 M3
Past: MKIV R32
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2020, 02:25 AM   #52
Commanderwiggin
Captain
Commanderwiggin's Avatar
United_States
1106
Rep
815
Posts

Drives: 19 M2C;12 X5 35D;Turbo E46 M3
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Socal

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///BMW Junkie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M2C_OZ View Post
Lies, i can show my logs. Im running pump E85 (usually measures around 75-82) and my HPFP does not show signs of crashing whatsoever.
It all depends how much torque you're targetting...the higher the ethanol content, the lower loads you can run.

I'm fully flex from the same tuner and can run any content; but I have torque targets adjusted for the different ethanol content to ensure there isn't an issue.
If you want to make the most power, you're not going to make it on 80% ethanol unless you have additional fueling.
Just to clarify you're talking stock turbos?
I'm running stock turbos; but the concept applies even more to aftermarket turbos.
__________________
575RWHP F87 M2C - ECUTEK RACEROM with flex fuel tuning by Bend Calibration
1000+RWHP E46 M3, Lab22 Built Turbo S54, Bend Calibration Tuned - BMW Half Mile Record Holder
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2020, 03:38 PM   #53
///BMW Junkie
Captain
///BMW Junkie's Avatar
United_States
200
Rep
658
Posts

Drives: AW M4
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Washington DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluer2 View Post
any pics of the installed pumps? I wanna see where they are mounted, is it next to the turbos?
We'll post pics as soon as everything is wrapped up and finished.
Any updates?
__________________
///M4 | BM3/JordanTuned | PS2 Plus 2.5
VRSF DP | FTP CP | BMC Drop In
APEX SM10/PS4S | M Performance Cosmetics

Past: AW E92 M3
Past: MKIV R32
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2020, 03:44 PM   #54
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
4600
Rep
16,836
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2018 BMW i3s  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [5.00]
2015 BMW M4  [3.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///BMW Junkie View Post
Any updates?
1st car is in the bag, 2nd M4 going on the dyno soon so we can compare figures.

Results when finished.
__________________
Tom G. | european auto source (eas)
email: tom@europeanautosource.com web: www.europeanautosource.com tel 866.669.0705 ca: 714.369.8524 x22

GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG FACEBOOK YOUTUBE FLICKR INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 1
      11-09-2020, 07:13 PM   #55
TopJimmy
Captain
TopJimmy's Avatar
United_States
411
Rep
797
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 F80
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Chester County, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///BMW Junkie View Post
Any updates?
1st car is in the bag, 2nd M4 going on the dyno soon so we can compare figures.

Results when finished.
Tom,
What's the real objective of the Spool HPFPs...can the stock Direct Injection deliver more fuel with Spool pushing?
How does the Stock LPFP pressure log look with Spool sucking compared to stock HPFPs?
-Jimmy
__________________
AW '18 F80 M3 Base 6MT | Kies Hub | PJT E85 | BMC Filters | VTT CPs & CBC | Wagner TMIC | ER J & SportCats | AA Signature 3.5in
Appreciate 2
MJ6230.00

      11-09-2020, 08:13 PM   #56
Wanted_M
Private First Class
Wanted_M's Avatar
United_States
66
Rep
158
Posts

Drives: Frozen Blue M4CS
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Norcal

iTrader: (0)

I have a question and excuse my ignorance as I'm still learning the ways of BMW M's. Why can a piston be made/fitted to stock HPFP OEM housing like Autotech does for Audi's?
See below. this upgrade gave us the opportunity to run up to E50 on my S4 and sorry if the question was previously answered. If stock system can get E50/55, the piston should easily get E60/70.
https://autotech.com/mm5/merchant.mv...de=10-127-101K
__________________
M4CS Frozen Blue

Last edited by Wanted_M; 11-09-2020 at 08:21 PM..
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2020, 04:24 PM   #57
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
4600
Rep
16,836
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2018 BMW i3s  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [5.00]
2015 BMW M4  [3.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Tom,
What's the real objective of the Spool HPFPs...can the stock Direct Injection deliver more fuel with Spool pushing?
How does the Stock LPFP pressure log look with Spool sucking compared to stock HPFPs?
-Jimmy
Not enough info gathered to post yet. We'll post once the other M4 is finished tuning.
__________________
Tom G. | european auto source (eas)
email: tom@europeanautosource.com web: www.europeanautosource.com tel 866.669.0705 ca: 714.369.8524 x22

GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG FACEBOOK YOUTUBE FLICKR INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2020, 08:39 AM   #58
MJ6
Private First Class
MJ6's Avatar
United_States
230
Rep
162
Posts

Drives: 2018 M4 ZCP 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2018 BMW M4 ZCP  [0.00]
Really looking forward to seeing some real-world results with these pumps. I'm interested to find out if the stock fueling restriction is purely pump related, or if the injectors actually become the bottle neck at some point.

If these HPFP's work as well as I'm hoping, I could potentially see using them over PI when tuning for E85 on aftermarket turbos.
Appreciate 2
      11-21-2020, 03:43 AM   #59
erik-f80
Private
erik-f80's Avatar
Germany
15
Rep
85
Posts

Drives: BMW F80
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ6 View Post
Really looking forward to seeing some real-world results with these pumps. I'm interested to find out if the stock fueling restriction is purely pump related, or if the injectors actually become the bottle neck at some point.

If these HPFP's work as well as I'm hoping, I could potentially see using them over PI when tuning for E85 on aftermarket turbos.
I think the Injectors will be a bottle neck. Here in germany a lot of people use the BMW F10 M5 Injectors without any pump modification with very good results.Of course they also run 102 ROZ fuel.

Some coding for the M5 injectors is of course requiered.
__________________
Instagram: erik_f80
Appreciate 0
      11-21-2020, 08:41 AM   #60
TopJimmy
Captain
TopJimmy's Avatar
United_States
411
Rep
797
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 F80
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Chester County, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by erik-f80 View Post
I think the Injectors will be a bottle neck. Here in germany a lot of people use the BMW F10 M5 Injectors without any pump modification with very good results.Of course they also run 102 ROZ fuel.

Some coding for the M5 injectors is of course requiered.
Do you know what increased % the M5 injectors flow above ours?

I'm also thinking that the larger injectors might benefit from an aftermarket HPFP with higher flow capacity... but
Since HPFP injector rail PSI is same as OEM the bottleneck is still the injector opening. The flash map might be able to open the big injectors longer, but a limit is eventually reached. Have you seen setups with big injectors plus pumps on your side of the pond?
__________________
AW '18 F80 M3 Base 6MT | Kies Hub | PJT E85 | BMC Filters | VTT CPs & CBC | Wagner TMIC | ER J & SportCats | AA Signature 3.5in
Appreciate 0
      11-21-2020, 08:48 AM   #61
M2C_OZ
Private First Class
M2C_OZ's Avatar
United_States
118
Rep
121
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2 Competition
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Masachusetts

iTrader: (0)

What i still dont understand is, if injectors are a limiting factor what is an upgraded HPFP gonna do to help supply more fuel ???

Yes M5 injectors flow more but they have to be the Euro5 version not 6.
Appreciate 1
TopJimmy410.50

      11-21-2020, 10:28 AM   #62
chetrickerman
ECUTek Master Tuner
chetrickerman's Avatar
United_States
9630
Rep
1,511
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 YMB
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Colorado Springs

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Do you know what increased % the M5 injectors flow above ours?
10% over the OEM S55 injector.
__________________
Quote:
Torque is a measure of an engine's ability to do work; Power is the rate at which work is done
Appreciate 1
TopJimmy410.50

      11-21-2020, 11:25 AM   #63
TopJimmy
Captain
TopJimmy's Avatar
United_States
411
Rep
797
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 F80
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Chester County, PA

iTrader: (0)

So I'm thinking that the upgraded HPFPs and M5 injectors are for situations where PI is maxed out and you can afford $5-10K for 10% more DI (parts, shop install and tune).

Just having upgraded HPFPs won't make bigger injectors flow more, but bigger injectors might also push stock pumps to their limit too often.

The only way to really know the benefit is by incremental changes with good testing and logging.
__________________
AW '18 F80 M3 Base 6MT | Kies Hub | PJT E85 | BMC Filters | VTT CPs & CBC | Wagner TMIC | ER J & SportCats | AA Signature 3.5in
Appreciate 1
      11-21-2020, 12:25 PM   #64
Bluer2
Lieutenant
249
Rep
567
Posts

Drives: M4
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Houston

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M2C_OZ View Post
What i still dont understand is, if injectors are a limiting factor what is an upgraded HPFP gonna do to help supply more fuel ???

Yes M5 injectors flow more but they have to be the Euro5 version not 6.
can you elaborate on that? Europe has different M5 injectors than the US M5 injectors? What is the difference between Euro5 and 6?
Appreciate 0
      11-21-2020, 12:37 PM   #65
M2C_OZ
Private First Class
M2C_OZ's Avatar
United_States
118
Rep
121
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2 Competition
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Masachusetts

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluer2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M2C_OZ View Post
What i still dont understand is, if injectors are a limiting factor what is an upgraded HPFP gonna do to help supply more fuel ???

Yes M5 injectors flow more but they have to be the Euro5 version not 6.
can you elaborate on that? Europe has different M5 injectors than the US M5 injectors? What is the difference between Euro5 and 6?
Not Necessarily Europe, Euro5 is an older version of M5 injectors which flows more than Euro6 (these Euro designations are related to fuel Economy and emmisions).
Appreciate 0
      11-21-2020, 12:59 PM   #66
HyeM3
Second Lieutenant
HyeM3's Avatar
United_States
197
Rep
269
Posts

Drives: BMW M3
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: California

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
So I'm thinking that the upgraded HPFPs and M5 injectors are for situations where PI is maxed out and you can afford $5-10K for 10% more DI (parts, shop install and tune).

Just having upgraded HPFPs won't make bigger injectors flow more, but bigger injectors might also push stock pumps to their limit too often.

The only way to really know the benefit is by incremental changes with good testing and logging.
I've seen a lot of posts on the M5 forums about injectors failing and getting stuck open. You can't even run more than E30 on F10 M5's so these people are experiencing failure on pump gas. It seems to be a common issue so I'd be hesitant to run them on an M3/4 because they might not handle E85 well at all
Appreciate 1
MJ6230.00

Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:48 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST