Next Level Auto Brokers
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-25-2020, 11:09 PM   #23
TopJimmy
Captain
TopJimmy's Avatar
United_States
411
Rep
797
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 F80
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Chester County, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluer2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DriverDaily View Post
Wagner makes a larger OEM style (tube and fin) that doesn't have the drawbacks of the bar and plate.
shit glad i bought the wagner one instead of this POS
+1 for Wagner. I've got their TMIC and am very happy with it. Always cold. It clears the hood and also the oil cap. Wish I got their radiator kit too...it includes both center and side FMICs, and an air duct for the side unit.
__________________
AW '18 F80 M3 Base 6MT | Kies Hub | PJT E85 | BMC Filters | VTT CPs & CBC | Wagner TMIC | ER J & SportCats | AA Signature 3.5in
Appreciate 1
      09-26-2020, 01:11 AM   #24
Wanted_M
Private First Class
Wanted_M's Avatar
United_States
66
Rep
158
Posts

Drives: Frozen Blue M4CS
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Norcal

iTrader: (0)

HX is the best bang for your buck, do that first as you gain some coolant capacity. That's what I'm doing along with CBC and hub soon.
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2020, 09:38 AM   #25
CSF Cooling
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
CSF Cooling's Avatar
United_States
264
Rep
275
Posts


Drives: F10 M5 - Imola Red
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Hi everyone,

Ravi Dolwani here - owner of CSF

I just watched this video from Kies Motorsports, and personally I thought it was a great video - which backs up all of the claims that CSF has ever made about our charge cooler. I have no problems with the majority of the methodology used during the testing, and we're not shying away from the results. (If it's too long to read the entire post, please make sure to read the claim in BOLD towards the bottom about pump duty cycle manipulation).

I felt it would be best, for me as the owner of CSF, to come on here now to lend some feedback against some of the comments that have been posted already in this thread + help to share some knowledge about cooling system performance, specifically about bar/plate vs. tube/fin technology (pros/cons) + more information about air/water charge cooling, and the features & benefits of using the CSF upgraded S55 engine charge cooler.


Opinion of the testing results
I believe Bryan from Kies was honest and transparent about the results he achieved during his testing. He also stated from the very beginning of the video what he thought his expectations would be: in the same range as the OEM cooler (slightly higher / slightly lower /or about the same) - the results: -9hp/-6tq (-2%HP / -1.2%Tq) - To me this is slightly lower or about the same as the OEM system.

(The only aspect of this specific test which I wish could be controlled better, no fault to Kies, is the time of the day that the testing was done. The OEM cooler testing was done earlier in the day, and the CSF testing was done later in the day. Air density is higher earlier in the day when it is cooler, and this typically effect the results of the test to some degree) - In no way am I using this an excuse, but lending some knowledge for the benefit of the conversation - Air density variation during dyno testing and tuning can have a big impact on results.)


REVIEW OF TESTING
  • 1st pull - CSF cooler made +2HP / +5tq
  • The trend of the OEM cooler, from just 3 dyno pulls, was a gradual decrease in both hp and tq vs. the CSF which decreased, then increased into a consistent range. This is the intended function of the cooler, and why so many road race / track users purchase our product and are very satisfied with the results. Over an extended period of hard driving, the OEM cooler performance will continue to lose power and the car will start to become sluggish vs. the CSF which will maintain consistent power delivery, and has been proven at the 25 Hours of ThunderHill Endurance race. No loss of power, and consistent IAT's


CLAIMS MADE BY CSF
  • CSF has never made a claim of power increase for the charge cooler alone - it's not listed on our website.
  • For maximum cooling benefit, a high performance heat exchanger should also be installed. In an air/water system, it's the water from the front mount heat exchanger that is doing the heat transfer of the cooling in the sealed charge cooler. CSF's performance heat exchanger has more fluid capacity, a higher efficiency core, and uses a CSF exclusive "B-Tube" that can recover from heat soak faster than the OEM radiator tube (Kies also says this in his video at the beginning at 0:47)
  • The very 1st car that CSF ever tested our charge cooler on was the Yost Autosport F80 M3 in 2016 .
    Our goal with developing the CSF complete 3-piece cooling package for the S55 engine was to be able to help on the track. Maintaining consistent Intake Air Temperatures (IAT's) and engine power in demanding racing conditions over prolonged use was the goal of developing our cooling system, and countless 3rd party / independent results have proven this goal time and time again. (Kies also says this in his video in the beginning at 1:15)

Why you should consider buying CSF's upgraded S55 charge cooler
  1. Reliability and durability compared to the OEM design of tube/fine core crimped to plastic end tanks - the OEM coolers are notorious for failing. I have several friends who are dealer technicians at BMW, and the amount of charge coolers they tell me they replace under warranty is very surprising. Keep in mind that many of these replacements are happing 6 months to 5 years from new. The failure rates will only start to increase as the vehicles age, and more modifications, especially increases in horsepower, are applied to these vehicles. From speaking to my contacts who are techs both at the dealer, and at independent BMW repair centers, I would conservatively say that the failure rate is ~1-3% of S55 engine cars. CSF's charge cooler comes with a life-time warranty. You don't want to risk having water enter your engine, possibly damaging it.
  2. Maintaining consistent Intake Air Temperatures (IAT's) and engine power in demanding racing conditions over prolonged use.
  3. Aesthetically more pleasing than the OEM cooler, with the ability to order a custom color to match any theme you're going for. Also CSF's finishing is by far the best out of all aftermarket options: Best welding, only company to use a bolt on front/back water plate system for a cleaner look, and the best powder-coating out of all options as we actually disassemble them at our facility in California, do an additional QC inspection on them, then send them out to get sand blasted and powder-coated by one of the bets powder-coating companies in Southern California. We then again QC inspect them before reassembly and final packaging.

PROVEN PERFORMANCE
  • CSF has never put out our own performance data on any of our products because we prefer to only showcase 3rd party validated results. This is a huge reason why CSF is a premier cooling company and a leader in BMW performance cooling. Championship winning results with proven data and testimonials from people who are actually using the products.
    - Highest horsepower S55 engine in the world - by Cedar Performance (Dallas, TX) - over 1000hp on the dyno - using a CSF full cooling package. (Heat exchanger + charge cooler + DCT Cooler) - https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1617338&page=3
    - Fastest F80m3 / S55 engine car in the 1/2 mile - by BMW of San Rafael using a CSF full cooling package. (Heat exchanger + charge cooler + DCT Cooler)
    - Top 3 Fastest S55 Engine car around the Nurburgring:
    https://youtu.be/zZHkWRSbvHg
    We're actually working with http://www.rent4ring.de/en/ and Speedhunters to go for the record for fastest S55 car around the ring in their M2 Competition. We also work with RSR Nurburg, who rents vehicles at the track, to cool all of their S55 cars to help prevent heat soak and maintain a consistent driving experience when used on the track for prolonged periods of time

Keeping it real + other information to share
  • Having been in the industry for over 15 years, I cant tell you how many claims made by manufacturers have been manipulated and proven false (which Kies even says in his video of companies taking the best of 3 results and comparing it to the OEMs worst of 3 results)
  • Furthermore, any company who has claimed to have made power with their charge cooler - If you really get into the details of their graphs, you will have noticed the disclaimer in their testing where they say theyve turned on the water pumps duty cycle to 100% on all the time. Being able to manipulate the pumps duty cycle in the tuning software is a huge benefit to helping increase the charge cooler efficiency as the OEM software is variable and only opens it to 100% during full load. In a 3 dyno run test, having the cycle at 100% between the runs with the fans blowing directly into the heat exchanger is going to 100% help manipulate the data to allow the cooling system to recover closer to initial levels before the next dyno run is started.
  • Bar/plate vs. Tube/fin: There are pros / cons to each of these core constructions and flow configurations. There is no right answer for which is better. Tube/fin has better heat transfer abilities (because the material is thinner), but will heat soak faster because of the same reason. It is also more delicate than bar/plate and under higher boost pressures tubes can split causing a leak and which will put water into your engine. Bar/plate has a higher heat soak point, but once it gets to it's heat soak threshold, it takes longer to come back down. This is why we've seeing mixed results with the performance of the charge coolers at VMAX races (1.3 miles long runs), and why some tuners, like Pure Turbos Europe or even my good friends at Evolve Automotive in the UK have gone back to the OEM charge cooler. Pure Turbos Europe has even added a freon inter-chilling system to help lower the IAT's). Not every type of aftermarket vehicle modification is intended for every type of motorsport or use.
  • Single-pass vs. Dual-pass: Single pass, the coolant is cycling through the system faster vs. a dual-pass the coolant stays in the charge cooler twice as long, but also means it stays in the front mount heat exchanger longer which we concluded allows for the largest temperature delta of water in vs. water out to help keep IAT's consistent since this is the medium used for the heat exchange, and why we also developed the front mount heat exchanger and recommend installing both as a package
    The same bar/plate and dual-pass construction which we use in this cooler is the same we use in our S63TU dual charge cooler system for F1x m5/m6 which shows a significant increase in power - We do truly understand what we're making, and we're also very aware that results and perceived value for individual products may be different between applications.

At CSF, we encourage this type of dialog, we embrace this, and we're okay with it.
(As long as everyone is willing to invest the time to understanding all the details, it's the way we all learn and advance forward as the automotive performance community)

As a BMW and motorsports enthusiast myself (I own an F10 M5 700hp) as well as a 1000+ HP 991 Turbo S Porsche which is top 10 fastest in the world . I started the high performance division of my business because it's a passion of mine, and my goal is to help cars run cooler and more reliably. I believe with this product, we have achieved our goals.

I also don't think anyone can say that CSF hasn't stepped up and helped more than most, if not all, manufactures the BMW community with our cooling products and our engagement / involvement with the BMW.

I welcome any feedback and I'm here to listen and answer any questions anyone may have.
__________________
Ultimate Performance Cooling /// csfrace.com
Appreciate 18
      09-26-2020, 12:58 PM   #26
TopJimmy
Captain
TopJimmy's Avatar
United_States
411
Rep
797
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 F80
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Chester County, PA

iTrader: (0)

@CSF Cooling Ravi,
Thank you for the detailed response. That's great info to help us understand the outcome of Kies' dyno pulls versus TMIC outcomes during track use. Also great info on why the FMIC is important in the equation too.
-TJ
__________________
AW '18 F80 M3 Base 6MT | Kies Hub | PJT E85 | BMC Filters | VTT CPs & CBC | Wagner TMIC | ER J & SportCats | AA Signature 3.5in
Appreciate 1
      09-26-2020, 02:07 PM   #27
fiveohwblow
Second Lieutenant
fiveohwblow's Avatar
United_States
347
Rep
287
Posts

Drives: E70, E46 M3, F82
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Desert SW

iTrader: (0)

CSF Cooling i am a large fan of your products, have oil cooler on my E46M track car, fmic on my f30. Investing your time here for a smaller audience of enthusiasts adds to my confidence that when I prefer a product of yours and pull the trigger I’ve made the right choice. Hoping the response from other users is equally respectful.

Thank you.
Appreciate 1
      09-26-2020, 09:18 PM   #28
TrueNorthM3
Private First Class
95
Rep
115
Posts

Drives: 2015 Alpine White BMW M3 (DCT)
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Winnipeg, Canada

iTrader: (0)

These are pretty much margin of error results on the dyno - as far as I'm concerned. Moral of the story is don't be to quick to jump on the internet bandwagon of trashing a product before you've understood all the details. You would test a charge cooler by looking at IAT's and look for hp stability, not peak numbers.

Thanks to Kies and CSF for furthering along the F80 platform with content and products.
__________________
Currently: '15 M3 (dct) BM3 11.58@126 /// '11 X3 35i 13.9@99/// '02 Transam 12.7@112
Previously: '13 Cadillac CTS-V 11.9@115 /// '12 128i /// '08 Benz c300 6spd
Appreciate 4
      09-27-2020, 07:12 AM   #29
luchocamp
Second Lieutenant
180
Rep
241
Posts

Drives: 15 BMW M4
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic

iTrader: (0)

great info
__________________
13 BMW 335ix Full Weight 10.64 @129mph N55 WR SOLD
A90 Supra Full Weight No Nitrous 10.78@133mph
BMW M4 Full Weoght 10.69@133mph stock turbos

drag track online set up contact on Instagram @luchocampusano YouTube Lucho Campusano
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2020, 09:34 AM   #30
applesauce683
Second Lieutenant
233
Rep
264
Posts

Drives: 2016 M3
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: MD

iTrader: (1)

CSF Cooling Certainly appreciate your reply, even though it is about 4 years late. You might want to refresh your memory and take a look at your initial thread and read you and VF's posts about the cooler, https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1318857.


Timeline:


10/27/16: "Lab testing versus OEM from CSF, Dyno testing by VF, and on track testing by Yost Autosport's new endurance racing M4 race car coming soon"

10/27/16: "We'll be getting all the data together, and we'll be releasing everything before the product is available for sale."

10/28/16: "We've got the first test unit on our car which will be hitting the dyno this afternoon. With SEMA being next week, we'll collect some data logs on our drive to and from Vegas, but won't be able to start full instrument testing until the week following."

11/15/16: "VF Engineering was scheduled to have this cooler on the dyno late last week / early this week. I haven't had a chance to touch base with them this week, but we should be getting together to discuss dyno results in the next week or so....Lab testing from our ISO certified lab will be released before the final production model will be available to market."

12/27/16: "In the mean time we've been focusing on finishing our dyno and road testing, while CSF is working on lab and bench flow testing."

12/29/16: "As soon as we get a day or two with 80+ F, we'll be back out on the road and at the drag strip to show the recovery benefits of the Heat Exchanger, and the cooling/power benefits of the Charge Cooler."

1/2/17: "We're scheduling our testing and release of our data for ~2 weeks before the release of the coolers. This fits our time schedule, and not anyone elses. We also have Pure Turbos putting the charge-air-cooler + CSF heat exchanger on their own company development vehicle as well. This will be an additional 3rd party validation of the results. They were alaso very busy wrapping up the year, but I did touch base with them last week to confirm that all of our time schedules are still in sink with the release of the cooler. We will be releasing the data soon."

1/25/17: "We've been testing.. 1st 15 kits arrive this week - all sold - they're going to the right people in the right cars around the world. Data will be coming soon from CSF/VF"

1/26/17: "While we've stated before that presenting the results of our testing has been delayed due to less than ideal testing conditions, that doesn't mean we have ceased testing altogether. So far we have seen charge air temperatures decrease by as much as 15 F on the dyno (with IAT's dropping from and average of 113 F down to 98 F), with power increasing by an average of 8 HP and 10 TQ to the wheels (improving from 487hp/509tq to 495hp/518tq), on a day with a modest ambient temperature of 76-78 F."

2/10/17: "Will be going down personally to Pure Turbos tomorrow to complete testing on the full-kit."

7/7/17: This was the last time CSF or VF replied in this thread even with many people still waiting/asking for data.


This is just a bad look IMO. But again, I am sure you don't really care because you have sold so many kits.

Last edited by applesauce683; 09-28-2020 at 01:08 PM..
Appreciate 10
Mike.1771.50
Kilabyte1490.00
DanMpower2016.50
SYT_Shadow6029.00
ra2289228.00
THEROK720.00
FaRKle!1758.50
sly1types145.00

      09-28-2020, 12:30 PM   #31
FriedPiston
Colonel
United_States
1328
Rep
2,300
Posts

Drives: M4
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Crenshaw

iTrader: (24)

Quote:
Originally Posted by applesauce683 View Post
This is just a bad look IMO. But again, I am sure you don't really care because you have sold so many kits.
There's still no data from them to this day, and it took a highly reputable vendor with a good amount of followers to get them to post even more marketing. Some of the WR holders they highlighted aren't even fond of their charge air cooler.
Appreciate 2
      09-28-2020, 03:05 PM   #32
CSF Cooling
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
CSF Cooling's Avatar
United_States
264
Rep
275
Posts


Drives: F10 M5 - Imola Red
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by applesauce683 View Post
This is just a bad look IMO. But again, I am sure you don't really care because you have sold so many kits.
I tried my best to jump on to this thread to defend the product, and turn a negative situation into a positive experience for potential customers and the BMW community overall with some in-depth knowledge and expanded feedback not only on the specific CSF charge cooler, but also what we know about the cooling system.

Sorry you think it's a bad look, but your quote is absolute spot on - Over the weekend we sold 12 charge coolers, about half of those sales where directly attributed to the post that I made with messages saying so.

To all the guys who continue to post negative about the product, don't choose to be positive about the vendors who support Bimmerpost with our sponsorship, you guys are the problem and why so many companies are choosing to walk away from forums. I've been a member of Bimmerpost for over 7+ years, and I can see what's happening to it - This isn't the bible of BMW information and feedback, plenty of guys are talking positive about the product at the track, on FB groups, in shops, etc.

We have made mistakes in the past, jumped the gun on statements which didn't come to fruition the way we wanted them to (3+ years ago), etc. We can only try and do better moving forward. And our record and reputation in the BMW community speaks for itself

The guys posting negatively about the product can continue to throw shade, and to be honest it doesn't effect us one bit - Close to 3000 of them now sold, record sales month in August for these coolers. We can't make them fast enough and are always waiting for more stock to arrive -Some of you guys are seem very salty and I feel bad for you - We're here making money, you're here posting negatively doing what? Enjoy your crusade. Sorry not sorry
__________________
Ultimate Performance Cooling /// csfrace.com
Appreciate 4
      09-28-2020, 09:54 PM   #33
MisterF80M3
Captain
MisterF80M3's Avatar
582
Rep
828
Posts

Drives: 2018 M3
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: CA

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSF Cooling View Post
I tried my best to jump on to this thread to defend the product, and turn a negative situation into a positive experience for potential customers and the BMW community overall with some in-depth knowledge and expanded feedback not only on the specific CSF charge cooler, but also what we know about the cooling system.

Sorry you think it's a bad look, but your quote is absolute spot on - Over the weekend we sold 12 charge coolers, about half of those sales where directly attributed to the post that I made with messages saying so.

To all the guys who continue to post negative about the product, don't choose to be positive about the vendors who support Bimmerpost with our sponsorship, you guys are the problem and why so many companies are choosing to walk away from forums. I've been a member of Bimmerpost for over 7+ years, and I can see what's happening to it - This isn't the bible of BMW information and feedback, plenty of guys are talking positive about the product at the track, on FB groups, in shops, etc.

We have made mistakes in the past, jumped the gun on statements which didn't come to fruition the way we wanted them to (3+ years ago), etc. We can only try and do better moving forward. And our record and reputation in the BMW community speaks for itself

The guys posting negatively about the product can continue to throw shade, and to be honest it doesn't effect us one bit - Close to 3000 of them now sold, record sales month in August for these coolers. We can't make them fast enough and are always waiting for more stock to arrive -Some of you guys are seem very salty and I feel bad for you - We're here making money, you're here posting negatively doing what? Enjoy your crusade. Sorry not sorry
CSF is starting to show their true colors. What a horrible way to respond to criticism. Basically saying screw you, I don't care if my products are good or not. I still sold X amount of intercooler even with a video showing it loses WHP and torque.
__________________
2018 BMW F80 ///M3
Appreciate 8
      09-29-2020, 02:13 AM   #34
DanMpower
Lieutenant Colonel
DanMpower's Avatar
United_States
2017
Rep
1,583
Posts

Drives: White M3s
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Southern CA

iTrader: (15)

It's not only CSF guys, but other manufacturers are also guilty as charged, we should throw all of them under the bus.

VRSF charge cooler introduction
VRSF Claims: The OEM intercooler will rise in temperatures up to 105 whereas the VRSF dual pass, high density top mount intercooler will reduce temps down pull which is both harmful for your engine and robs you of power.

Members ask for logs and proof of such claims...

Timeline:
5/16/19 - Tiago@VRSF: We'll have logs up shortly

5/27/19 - Tiago@VRSF: We'll have them posted shortly.

6/20/19 - Tiago@VRSF: I apologize for the delay, the data we were provided with included both the front mounted cooler we've been working on as well as the top mount cooler. We've been waiting for independent results from a couple customers for the top mounted intercooler alone so we don't have inflated results, we should have something up shortly

Logs were never posted by the manufacturer as promised... no surprise.

4/12/20 - M Turbo: I purchased mine directly from VRSF 6/2019 and have seen nothing but horrible results. First; my IAT went must higher under boost and cruising than than prior with my OEM and with same conditions.
And second the quality is just bad. VRSF should replace or refund these. It's been in my garage stored a week after I bought it. Waste of money.


5/7/20 - Tiago@VRSF: Fake news, please refrain from spreading nonsense without proof to substantiate your claims.
We have over 120 of these out in the wild with nothing but positive results.
Still no proof or logs.

I guess because they sold "120" of these they must be good.

5/7/20 - Tiago@VRSF: Please post your logs and your order information.
Otherwise, refrain from spreading false information.


The vendor gets mad and demands M turbo posts logs and order information. That's funny, asking a customer for logs and proof of purchase when you promised for almost a year to post your own. How ironic.

5/7/20 - Tiago@VRSF: We have independent logs that were provide by a shop who upgraded both the top mount and the front mount intercooler at the same time so it's impossible to say if the results are from one or the other.
We'll take the time to recreate individual testing conditions on our shop car in order to compare the OEM to the upgraded unit.
Claiming you have personal experience with the product when you can't prove you own it is spreading false information. If you're concerned with the integrity of forums like these where shills often prey on the less educated, you shouldn't condone the behavior of spreading false information.


Yet again claims they have logs and data but never posts them. The thread has since gone cold with the vendor never posting data to back up their claims.

Seems like a viscious cycle with these charge cooler manufacturers, make bold claims, promise yet never posts results (because more than likely they showed worse than stock performance) THEN GETS MAD WHEN CHALLENGED by customers.

Honestly, the only charge cooler I would ever put on my car if I still had my F80 would be the Wagner one or keep the stock OEM.
Appreciate 6
Kilabyte1490.00
SYT_Shadow6029.00
THEROK720.00
FaRKle!1758.50

      09-29-2020, 03:07 AM   #35
Kilabyte
Lieutenant
Poland
1490
Rep
571
Posts

Drives: Mineral White M3 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Massachusetts

iTrader: (1)

^Hmm, I wonder if my car has been running inconsistent as of late (started a thread yesterday, latest addition was a VRSF cooler to replace my OEM cooler leaking internally

If BM3 allows logging this in some shape or form please let me know.
__________________

S55, 2JZ
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2020, 06:54 AM   #36
DanMpower
Lieutenant Colonel
DanMpower's Avatar
United_States
2017
Rep
1,583
Posts

Drives: White M3s
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Southern CA

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilabyte View Post
^Hmm, I wonder if my car has been running inconsistent as of late (started a thread yesterday, latest addition was a VRSF cooler to replace my OEM cooler leaking internally

If BM3 allows logging this in some shape or form please let me know.
Kilabyte, I'm willing to bet it's that VRSF charge cooler that's making your car run inconsistent. Toss that thing in the garbage and get a Wagner or Mishimoto. Your IATs are probably much worse than stock and you car is probably pulling a bunch of timing.

Another member having issues after installing, read up here.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1615063
Appreciate 1
      09-29-2020, 10:52 AM   #37
hC1001
First Lieutenant
167
Rep
329
Posts

Drives: E36 M3, F80 M3
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Brooklyn, NY

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanMpower View Post
Kilabyte, I'm willing to bet it's that VRSF charge cooler that's making your car run inconsistent. Toss that thing in the garbage and get a Wagner or Mishimoto. Your IATs are probably much worse than stock and you car is probably pulling a bunch of timing.

Another member having issues after installing, read up here.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1615063
I havent had any issues with my VRSF intercooler. I also have a CSF heat exchanger in conjunction. I will also admit i dont log IATs so this is just my personal observation. I dont believe i can tell the difference between 10 RWHP either, but driving the car and the car being on a dyno is very different environments. Im satisfied with the VRSF product and the price though even knowing that it might not be better than the original intercooler. At least its not a known issue that it might leak coolant into the air intake.

One thing i would recommend is to check the coolant level of the low pressure. Its possible air is still in the system. It took a couple drives to finally stabilize the level. Just keep topping the level to the top marker and check on it every couple days. I did this for a month until the level stabilized.

Last edited by hC1001; 09-29-2020 at 11:04 AM..
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2020, 12:57 PM   #38
Kilabyte
Lieutenant
Poland
1490
Rep
571
Posts

Drives: Mineral White M3 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Massachusetts

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanMpower View Post
Kilabyte, I'm willing to bet it's that VRSF charge cooler that's making your car run inconsistent. Toss that thing in the garbage and get a Wagner or Mishimoto. Your IATs are probably much worse than stock and you car is probably pulling a bunch of timing.

Another member having issues after installing, read up here.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1615063
Crap, now I wish I never bought it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
is the VRSF one leaking?
The stock one was, the VRSF is the one you dropshipped to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hC1001 View Post
/
One thing i would recommend is to check the coolant level of the low pressure. Its possible air is still in the system. It took a couple drives to finally stabilize the level. Just keep topping the level to the top marker and check on it every couple days. I did this for a month until the level stabilized.
I did the proper bleeding sequence 3 times. Had no issues at first.
__________________

S55, 2JZ
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2020, 05:43 PM   #39
omgf80
Second Lieutenant
146
Rep
250
Posts

Drives: 18' ZCP F80
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Bay Area, California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterF80M3 View Post
CSF is starting to show their true colors. What a horrible way to respond to criticism. Basically saying screw you, I don't care if my products are good or not. I still sold X amount of intercooler even with a video showing it loses WHP and torque.
A bit surprised to see that response as well
__________________
Current:18' F80 AW | 17' I3
Sold: 89' 325ix | 09' 135i | 15' M235i
IG: omgf80
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2020, 11:51 PM   #40
THEROK
Captain
South Korea
720
Rep
948
Posts

Drives: Genesis GV80
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Gangnam District

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSF Cooling View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by applesauce683 View Post
This is just a bad look IMO. But again, I am sure you don't really care because you have sold so many kits.
I tried my best to jump on to this thread to defend the product, and turn a negative situation into a positive experience for potential customers and the BMW community overall with some in-depth knowledge and expanded feedback not only on the specific CSF charge cooler, but also what we know about the cooling system.

Sorry you think it's a bad look, but your quote is absolute spot on - Over the weekend we sold 12 charge coolers, about half of those sales where directly attributed to the post that I made with messages saying so.

To all the guys who continue to post negative about the product, don't choose to be positive about the vendors who support Bimmerpost with our sponsorship, you guys are the problem and why so many companies are choosing to walk away from forums. I've been a member of Bimmerpost for over 7+ years, and I can see what's happening to it - This isn't the bible of BMW information and feedback, plenty of guys are talking positive about the product at the track, on FB groups, in shops, etc.

We have made mistakes in the past, jumped the gun on statements which didn't come to fruition the way we wanted them to (3+ years ago), etc. We can only try and do better moving forward. And our record and reputation in the BMW community speaks for itself

The guys posting negatively about the product can continue to throw shade, and to be honest it doesn't effect us one bit - Close to 3000 of them now sold, record sales month in August for these coolers. We can't make them fast enough and are always waiting for more stock to arrive -Some of you guys are seem very salty and I feel bad for you - We're here making money, you're here posting negatively doing what? Enjoy your crusade. Sorry not sorry
You've lost the plot.
__________________
Dry sump flat six
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2020, 12:05 AM   #41
Bmwlmr99
First Lieutenant
Bmwlmr99's Avatar
171
Rep
300
Posts

Drives: Bmw m4
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

pulled my csf off and put the stock one back on.... I've seen to many ...at least 3 dyno pulls where ( the CSF ) made less hp than the stock cooler ( 10 to 12 hp less )
Appreciate 1
      09-30-2020, 12:38 AM   #42
MisterF80M3
Captain
MisterF80M3's Avatar
582
Rep
828
Posts

Drives: 2018 M3
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: CA

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwlmr99 View Post
pulled my csf off and put the stock one back on.... I've seen to many ...at least 3 dyno pulls where ( the CSF ) made less hp than the stock cooler ( 10 to 12 hp less )
Mishimoto claims that their intercooler has gain in HP and torque.


Dyno-proven average power gains of 11 whp and 8 wtq with peak gains of up to 31 whp and 10 wtq on stage 1 tuned vehicle


I would most likely go this route when my stock one goes.
__________________
2018 BMW F80 ///M3
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2020, 04:08 AM   #43
Bmwlmr99
First Lieutenant
Bmwlmr99's Avatar
171
Rep
300
Posts

Drives: Bmw m4
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

yes indeed... bimmerworld has a cr intercooler...looks good but extremely expensive at $3,999
Appreciate 2
SYT_Shadow6029.00
THEROK720.00

      09-30-2020, 08:48 AM   #44
TopJimmy
Captain
TopJimmy's Avatar
United_States
411
Rep
797
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 F80
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Chester County, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwlmr99 View Post
bimmerworld has a cr intercooler...looks good but extremely expensive at $3,999
Jeez...CNC billet end caps and liquid spreaders, hand TIG welded and hand-stacked cores with "turbulators" to help disturb airflow and increase heat transfer...for track/endurance racing. Hand made in the USA. I see why it's $4K...

For $4K we can have the Wagner TMIC plus their two FMIC kit.
__________________
AW '18 F80 M3 Base 6MT | Kies Hub | PJT E85 | BMC Filters | VTT CPs & CBC | Wagner TMIC | ER J & SportCats | AA Signature 3.5in
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:31 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST