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      09-25-2020, 02:53 AM   #1
drgmt
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Tuning in jeopardy.

" Paul Blamire:
EcuTek Announcement:
Locked Bosch Bootloaders

As you may have seen some news, I would like to clarify the issues present on newly manufactured Bosch MEVD and MG1 ECUs.

We've been aware of a situation brewing in Bosch ECUs initially identified on BMW platforms but potentially affects all Bosch Tricore platforms that are currently being manufactured. We were unsure of the extent of these changes and how it would impact our business and yours, but we are starting to see affected ECUs out in the wild now.
Bosch have updated the security on their most recently manufactured ECUs that means that "bench unlocking" is no longer possible. This issue has been seen on MEVD17 ecus in BMW M4s manufactured in July 2020, and in MG1S024 ECUs in B48/B58 cars manufactured late June, July and August 2020. The exact data of the switchover is unknown but the earliest date we have currently is 25th June.

The result means for newly manufactured cars:
No OBD unlock
No Bench unlock
No bootpin unlock (that's right even opening the ECU to get direct access to the processor does not help)
Not just BMW will be affected, expect to see this coming to the likes of Mercedes etc.
There are no tuning products in existence that can support these new ECUs, it's an industry wide problem, not just an Ecutek problem.
The latest cars will NOT tuneable using an ECU reflash from any company, with any tool.
Older cars are unaffected and will continue to be tuneable

The changes are to the lowest level Bosch code, pre-programmed by Bosch at point of manufacturer (it is not an update to the BMW or manufacturer specific bootloader). So this is not something that can be easily recognised by the ID of the BMW software version, Calibration ID or bootloader version, our best guess is that it affects cars from June 2020 onwards. Our current information is that this new Bosch bootloader is not field upgradeable, so that means that existing ECUs with the older Bosch bootloader cannot be updated to the locked version with something like a dealer reflash (this is good!)

Our long term approach is we're looking for ways to allow programming of these ECUs, but it's a significant challenge which we don't quite know the scale of yet. We are working very hard to find a solution to this and nothing is being ruled out as a potential fix.

In the short term we intend to add the manufacturing date fields to our query tools to try and allow tuners to know with greater certainty what they are dealing with. Our plans for tuning products are already changing as a result of this development, and you may see our focus change subtly to support more existing vehicles on other platforms. We will continue to increase the breadth and depth of our tools and features to really push what is possible in the OEM ECU marketplace.

I realise this is not what you want to hear, but this is the reality at the moment. I would urge tuners across all marques, using all software tools to plan ahead when it comes to their customers and treat them fairly and with respect. None of us expected this to happen and we are all affected in one way or another. Be wary of anyone that claims to have a solution to this problem, until it's independently verified you should assume it's still an issue. When a company does have a solution, this is good news for everyone, as we will know it's not impossible to solve."
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      09-25-2020, 06:15 AM   #2
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This does not bode well for the G80.

What other manufacturers use this Bosch platform?
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      09-25-2020, 08:58 AM   #3
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I remember Brian @ Kies in one of his vids where he mentions that the new cars have a OTA capability where BMW could potentially lock the ECU too. It does not bode well.

I’m sure a workaround may be found, but tuning may get real costly on the new platforms as well as a higher likelihood of a warranty loss.
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      09-25-2020, 10:16 AM   #4
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Hack it. If itís has a computer chip with code it can be hacked/unlocked/worked around. Might take some time but trust me, it can and will be unlocked eventually.
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      09-25-2020, 11:37 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Likeanowl View Post
Hack it. If itís has a computer chip with code it can be hacked/unlocked/worked around. Might take some time but trust me, it can and will be unlocked eventually.
Sure, but at what cost? At some point, it becomes more economical to just move to a less strict platform, or go with a standalone.

I'm curious how much of this is driven by warranty claims vs safety concerns. Or a plethora of other reasons.
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      09-25-2020, 01:06 PM   #6
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Sounds like there may soon be a push for standalone ECU's as a replacement. Unless I am unfamiliar with restrictions for standalone ecu implementations.

Please chime in if you have anything to add as I am curious about standalone ecu replacements. Ie MoTeC or Holley
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      09-25-2020, 01:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calubi View Post
Sure, but at what cost? At some point, it becomes more economical to just move to a less strict platform, or go with a standalone.

I'm curious how much of this is driven by warranty claims vs safety concerns. Or a plethora of other reasons.
Might be a emission thing like everything else these days
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      09-25-2020, 04:20 PM   #8
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Piggybacks and stand-alone ECU look to be the future.

I can't see a practical cost effective work around with this type of "hardware" lock
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      09-25-2020, 04:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calubi View Post
This does not bode well for the G80.

What other manufacturers use this Bosch platform?
Mercedes definitely does.
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      09-25-2020, 04:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
Piggybacks and stand-alone ECU look to be the future.

I can't see a practical cost effective work around with this type of "hardware" lock
Hehe we are just gonna have to upgrade our cars to a supercar like you did if we want more powaaaaa!
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      09-25-2020, 04:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpy1980 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
Piggybacks and stand-alone ECU look to be the future.

I can't see a practical cost effective work around with this type of "hardware" lock
Hehe we are just gonna have to upgrade our cars to a supercar like you did if we want more powaaaaa!
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      09-25-2020, 04:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Likeanowl View Post
Hack it. If it’s has a computer chip with code it can be hacked/unlocked/worked around. Might take some time but trust me, it can and will be unlocked eventually.
What's interesting is that they can't even get in with Bootpin access. This is pretty much stating that even injecting code directly at cpu (with soldering a pin probably) before the bootloader level won't work, making it probably unable to boot anything other than the official signed OS.

This is challenge is akin to finding a flaw in the processor chip itself. Not an easy one and if Bosch did it right, might not even be possible. There's a higher chance that it's easier to crack the interface language and swap in an aftermarket ecu and be able to interface with everything than to crack this tbh.

It's possible that they can find an exploit on the higher level but those might get wiped away after a power cycle.
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      09-25-2020, 04:35 PM   #13
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BMW is hellbent on making it impossible to tune cars
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      09-25-2020, 04:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
BMW is hellbent on making it impossible to tune cars
Which is a shame because at least to my knowledge they've been pretty tuner friendly, at least here
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      09-25-2020, 05:10 PM   #15
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If these ECUs cannot reasonably be hacked, maybe it is still possible to replace the ECU with one with the older bootloader

That will become a problem for newer cars though where there isn't an equivalent ECU to 'downgrade' to. In that case, hopefully their functions can be replicated well enough in a standalone ECU.

This sucks and is unfair on owners. Fair enough to have tools to detect this and void warranty when people tune the cars, but owners that don't care about or have a warranty should be able to do what they want to the car.
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      09-25-2020, 05:35 PM   #16
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What about doing piggyback's until they find a hack....... I am not a fan of them but its better than no tune i guess
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      09-25-2020, 05:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horsepower_and_hounds View Post
What about doing piggyback's until they find a hack....... I am not a fan of them but its better than no tune i guess
They will have to advance a lot to really work. I used a jb4 on my x5 for a couple years and it was terrible
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      09-25-2020, 05:51 PM   #18
drgmt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by horsepower_and_hounds View Post
What about doing piggyback's until they find a hack....... I am not a fan of them but its better than no tune i guess
They will have to advance a lot to really work. I used a jb4 on my x5 for a couple years and it was terrible
Might be the driving force needed now to improve the technology. Agree though inferior to a flash by a long long way
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      09-25-2020, 06:15 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
They will have to advance a lot to really work. I used a jb4 on my x5 for a couple years and it was terrible
Oh I agree...I made great easy power with the JB4 and E40.... but the boost spikes were terrible. I couldn't wait to get a flash. i was just thinking a work around for those who need more power. I am not worried...I am keeping my F82 till it dies
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      09-25-2020, 06:43 PM   #20
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Syvecs please develop a P&P S7 like RS3, Syvecs is like a wet dream
https://www.syvecs.com/product/s7-plus/
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      09-25-2020, 07:48 PM   #21
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Seems to only impact the flash tunes. BMS has one of the new cars in hand and said the JB4 remains fully compatible.
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      09-26-2020, 02:48 AM   #22
drgmt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuel-It! View Post
Seems to only impact the flash tunes. BMS has one of the new cars in hand and said the JB4 remains fully compatible.
The piggy backs will likely always be compatible as they are like ECU bypass.

Flash tuning however won't be available for quite a few years if ever in these platforms.
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