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      09-30-2020, 11:11 AM   #23
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I'm surprised you guys don't like the paddles. I think they feel more realistic and metal than the BMW paddles at least in my CLS, they feel a bit more solid in a way (although I've only had manual M cars so maybe that's why).
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      09-30-2020, 11:13 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Funny, my wife and I just picked up a C63S last Saturday and my thoughts are pretty much the same on it. The transmission is a bit of a let down, but if it is just street driven or a mild track day/HPDE it is fine. I also agree that paddles are less than ideal in both size and feel. iDrive is miles better than the Comand IMO, but the many ways you can configure everything is really cool. The Burmeister is much better to my ears than the HK system. I always hated those and preffered the base stereo in my CS to the HK to. I love the V8 in it and it does sound really good. It's not as sharp as the M3/4, but feels more playful than those to me. That really surprised me considering the extra 300 ish pounds. Overall I (we) are really happy with for different reasons, which is a good thing. It is my first Mercedes, a brand I never really thought I'd ever buy. I think they've mostly nailed down the fun luxury super sedan better than BMW unless you want to track it seriously. Than the M3/4 (F8X) anyway is the better pick. Nothing new, I know.
So, in our departures from BMW we both both a Camaro and a C63 S... too funny!

Agreed on all points.

10 years ago I wouldn't have envisioned myself a customer of Merc or Chevy, but I'll go wherever the best and most entertaining cars are. In another 10 years, might be a Hyundai customer with Beirmann doing his thing. I don't care. 20+ years ago I fell in love with BMW M cars, not the brand.
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      09-30-2020, 11:15 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
I'm surprised you guys don't like the paddles. I think they feel more realistic and metal than the BMW paddles at least in my CLS, they feel a bit more solid in a way (although I've only had manual M cars so maybe that's why).
For me it isn't the material, that is nice. It's the shift/click action that doesn't feel as positive/crisp as I'd like it to be. I'd also like them to be taller.
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      09-30-2020, 11:16 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
I'm surprised you guys don't like the paddles. I think they feel more realistic and metal than the BMW paddles at least in my CLS, they feel a bit more solid in a way (although I've only had manual M cars so maybe that's why).
For me it isn't the material, that is nice. It's the shift/click action that doesn't feel as positive/crisp as I'd like it to be. I'd also like them to be taller.
I get that, there is a bit less travel in the clicks, I would just love every car to have the Giulia shift paddles, those are the best!
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      09-30-2020, 11:18 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
So, in our departures from BMW we both both a Camaro and a C63 S... too funny!

Agreed on all points.

10 years ago I wouldn't have envisioned myself a customer of Merc or Chevy, but I'll go wherever the best and most entertaining cars are. In another 10 years, might be a Hyundai customer with Beirmann doing his thing. I don't care. 20+ years ago I fell in love with BMW M cars, not the brand.
Yup, I don't care about the badge. If it is interesting and I like it, I'll check it out. I could definitely see the Hyundai/Biermann combo produce some fun stuff in the near future. The N gets great reviews, but I personally am not a fan of that one. Still, a good start for them it sounds like it.
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      09-30-2020, 11:23 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
I'm surprised you guys don't like the paddles. I think they feel more realistic and metal than the BMW paddles at least in my CLS, they feel a bit more solid in a way (although I've only had manual M cars so maybe that's why).
Totally subjective, but I find it a more precise, mechanical action with the M paddles -- both E9X and F8X gen. And the shapes complement the feel. My sense is that M tried to make it an engaging, tactile action.

AMG paddle action feels perfunctory by comparison. Like they just do a job.
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      09-30-2020, 11:24 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Totally subjective, but I find it a more precise, mechanical action with the M paddles -- both E9X and F8X gen. And the shapes complement the feel. My sense is that M tried to make it an engaging, tactile action.

AMG paddle action feels perfunctory by comparison. Like they just do a job.
Great way to put it.
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      09-30-2020, 11:24 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Yup, I don't care about the badge. If it is interesting and I like it, I'll check it out. I could definitely see the Hyundai/Biermann combo produce some fun stuff in the near future. The N gets great reviews, but I personally am not a fan of that one. Still, a good start for them it sounds like it.
haha.. no, I'm not quite ready to bounce to Hyundai yet either. Referenced for illustration purposes only.
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      09-30-2020, 11:29 AM   #31
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It's different for us in the States though. We, at least for now, do not have that issue so for once we get more HP and more sound out of it.

I personally like the C63. My complaint has and always will be the shifter style (ignoring the slapped on iPad screen). I do not like it. I am able to get used to it, I am tech savy but I don't want to. I don't like it >.<

The more subtle styling of Benz cars is a plus in a lot of situations actually. Especially if you travel through... suspicious places, having a car that hides in the crowd is better. A car like the M3/M4, RS5 will scream attention to anyone. C63 will hide in the crowd, until you step on the gas and hear the V8.
These are legit criticisms. The shifter though is fairly small and hides behind the steering wheel nicely. At least it isn't my father's Oldsmobile station wagon shift lever. And it does clean up the middle console area for other things.

The screen is tacked on, but the graphics and everything else is done nicely in the cabin so I don't notice it that much. The digital gauge cluster and the 10,001 different ways you can configure it is a true thing of beauty IMO.

The thing I can't get used to is where the put they majority of the seat adjustments. It just feels awkward trying to adjust the seat using the controls placed on the door. But, once you get it done and save your prefered setting it becomes a non issue.
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      09-30-2020, 11:31 AM   #32
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haha.. no, I'm not quite ready to bounce to Hyundai yet either. Referenced for illustration purposes only.
I got what you meant though and in a few years I wouldn't be surprised if they put something on the market I am interested in. The Stinger thingy and the N kind of came sort of close. They are heading the right way anyway and with a manual options no less.

Edit: I will say I don't know why most would get a larger X vehicle over a Palisade. That thing is a home run in lux/quality/usability etc for your dollar. Friends of ours have one and it is a really nice vehicle for 48k.
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      09-30-2020, 11:37 AM   #33
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The thing I can't get used to is where the put the majority of the seat adjustments. It just feels awkward trying to adjust the seat using the controls placed on the door. But, once you get it done and save your prefered setting it becomes a non issue.
You get the performance seats?

Right, and the 2 bolstering controls + lumbar are still down on the side. Heat/cool up on the door. Seat controls all over the place.

But like you say, once in memory, no big deal.
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      09-30-2020, 11:39 AM   #34
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You get the performance seats?

Right, and the 2 bolstering controls + lumbar are still down on the side. Heat/cool up on the door. Seat controls all over the place.

But like you say, once in memory, no big deal.
We got the regular ones after test driving one with the performance seats. The wife and I both preferred the regular ones for our intended use of the car.

Edit: I definitely liked the look of the performance seats better.

Last edited by minn19; 09-30-2020 at 11:45 AM..
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      09-30-2020, 11:46 AM   #35
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We got the regular ones after test driving one with the performance seats. The wife and I both preferred the regular ones for our intended use of the car.
Tested a base C63 with the standard seats. More comfortable for sure. I get baited into hints of race car, even when n/a
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      09-30-2020, 12:09 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
the current gen C63 S AMG is probably more track ready in my experience than a stock F8X.
No disrespect, but this statement couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth. Hammering your buddy's whatever ride on backroads to actually determining a vehicle's race worthiness on an actual race track is a chasm as wide as the Grand Canyon.

You're comparing a glass roofed 2 plus ton pig with single piston rear floating calipers to a proven motorsport influenced F8X chassis that not only track rats buy, but actual Nurburgring rental car businesses acquire as rev generating assets.

Exhibit:


Businesses stay in b by driving profits so the smart ones tend to purchase things that minimize liabilities/expenses. There are rarely if any C63Ss nor Alfa Romeo GQs nor any other vehicles in this class that serves up what the F8X delivers.

So this Apex rental company based in Germany actually runs two F8Xs with another heavily modified F82 in their garage because it's a proven platform.

For the OP, I'm pretty certain I'd enjoy the C63S's radar cruise and other comforting accouterments than the more spartan F8X (as a DD). The C AMG is a great car, but let's be real here. One is an outright GT. The other is a proven GT/track hybrid and may well be, as time passes, the best M car ever made with big ups to Mr. Albert Biermann.
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      09-30-2020, 12:24 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by THEROK View Post
No disrespect, but this statement couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth. Hammering your buddy's whatever ride on backroads to actually determining a vehicle's race worthiness on an actual race track is a chasm as wide as the Grand Canyon.

You're comparing a glass roofed 2 plus ton pig with single piston rear floating calipers to a proven motorsport influenced F8X chassis that not only track rats buy, but actual Nurburgring rental car businesses acquire as rev generating assets.

Exhibit:


Businesses stay in b by driving profits so the smart ones tend to purchase things that minimize liabilities/expenses. There are rarely if any C63Ss nor Alfa Romeo GQs nor any other vehicles in this class that serves up what the F8X delivers.

So this Apex rental company based in Germany actually runs two F8Xs with another heavily modified F82 in their garage because it's a proven platform.

For the OP, I'm pretty certain I'd enjoy the C63S's radar cruise and other comforting accouterments than the more spartan F8X (as a DD). The C AMG is a great car, but let's be real here. One is an outright GT. The other is a proven GT/track hybrid and may well be, as time passes, the best M car ever made with big ups to Mr. Albert Biermann.
Whoa. Happy to reply with more specifics and context for my suggestion of stock track-readiness, but I'm not sure you actually read my comments before going off. Buddy's whatever ride on back roads?

Also, you have driven stock E9X, F8X, and C63 S on track? If yes, different tracks or the same one? What is your track driving experience level?
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      09-30-2020, 12:46 PM   #38
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Whoa. Happy to reply with more specifics and context for my suggestion of stock track-readiness, but I'm not sure you actually read my comments before going off. Buddy's whatever ride on back roads?

Also, you have driven stock E9X, F8X, and C63 S on track? If yes, different tracks or the same one? What is your track driving experience level?
Whoa whoa pump the interrogation brakes Mr Kubica. Please do indulge us! I'm just another dude who pays out of pocket to drive a car fast or slow or anything in between.
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      09-30-2020, 01:55 PM   #39
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Whoa whoa pump the interrogation brakes Mr Kubica. Please do indulge us! I'm just another dude who pays out of pocket to drive a car fast or slow or anything in between.
Haha, I’m Mr. Kubica?? Irony is lost on those in Gangnam. So bizarre when dudes get emotional on these subjects...

Wanted to understand if you’re speaking from any experience whatsoever, or just having a conniption after living vicariously through Kubica’s ring heroics in a fully track-prepped M4, which is completely irrelevant to my original suggestion and the discussion. You have no track driving experience in any of the vehicles being discussed, and you didn’t read or care to interpret my post accurately. But you went off.

For OP and parties who may actually be interested, more context for the suggestion that the C63 S is arguably more track ready in stock form, for casuals and newcomers (short of advanced pace):

1. Brakes: Stock E9X and F8X systems are not equipped for any extended track driving, in my experience. That includes developing novice. Between the pads turning to butter, questionable fluid, and the disc deposits (documented at length on the forum), both systems are insufficient. In equivalent track driving (drivers, pace, duration) the stock C63 S AMG experienced no similar braking issues.

2. Traction control: The E9X and F8X M systems present a dilemma in short order – choose between consistent and (eventually) frustrating intervention, or everything off. Choose the former and E9X/F8X issue 1. will be accelerated, and it could also curtail driver development. Choose the latter and you’re on your own.

The Merc’s 9 stage traction control system is an inarguable advantage. For proof, look at what M is finally doing with the G8X system.

3. Seats: The AMG Performance seats offer more track driving support and adjustment than any M to date. That translates to more focus, learning, and enjoyment.

Given the shoulder harness holes in the AMG seats, the potential for a 4 pt might be there, I’m not certain.

4. Power delivery: The AMG’s power delivery is less spikey and more linear, which will probably be immediately more “friendly” to the majority of novice or casual drivers.

This also plays into advantages 1. and 2. – the power delivery probably engages the traction system less frequently (certainly as the system is relaxed), which means less background brake activity, and the smoother powerband could better encourage novice drivers to progress through the 9-stage system as well.

The F8X is fundamentally a better track platform with a higher ceiling, of course. But it can't really live up to its potential in stock form for the reasons indicated. Even the GTS didn't get there in stock form.

Take it or leave it, just an opinion based upon experience. Others may disagree, at which point, obviously, I’ll just reference youtube footage of Lewis Hamilton thrashing an AMG GT-R and win the argument because HAM > KUB.
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      09-30-2020, 02:11 PM   #40
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1. Brakes: Stock E9X and F8X systems are not equipped for any extended track driving, in my experience. That includes developing novice. Between the pads turning to butter, questionable fluid, and the disc deposits (documented at length on the forum), both systems are insufficient. In equivalent track driving (drivers, pace, duration) the stock C63 S AMG experienced no similar braking issues.
It was a nice conversation.

I never liked the pedal feel on any of my M cars with the steel setup, (I also didn't want the CCBs for a number of reasons). I also had my M4 CS steel brakes fade on me to the point of the pedal going to the floor. This was with fresh pads and fluid. It can happen to any car, but the only time it has happened to me was in my "track ready" M4 CS.
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      09-30-2020, 02:19 PM   #41
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It was a nice conversation.

I never liked the pedal feel on any of my M cars with the steel setup, (I also didn't want the CCBs for a number of reasons). I also had my M4 CS steel brakes fade on me to the point of the pedal going to the floor. This was with fresh pads and fluid. It can happen to any car, but the only time it has happened to me was in my "track ready" M4 CS.
No question. As compared to alternative stock and track ready brakes, e.g., Chevy's, M's haven't been there.

Good call on the CCB's. after about 15 dry sessions and not through one set of pads:

[IMG]Untitled by FormulaMMM, on Flickr[/IMG]
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      09-30-2020, 02:26 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
No question. As compared to alternative stock and track ready brakes, e.g., Chevy's, M's haven't been there.

Good call on the CCB's. after about 15 dry sessions and not through one set of pads:

[IMG]Untitled by FormulaMMM, on Flickr[/IMG]
Geez and the replacement cost then......

My GT350 brakes were awesome and the AMGs don't feel any different from the ZLE or GT350s. Which is a great thing.

I always thought it was weird that BMW came out with a six piston setup on the M2C, But not the M3/4s. I know the M2C isn't much lighter, but it is still lighter and has a better brake set up than the more expensive/supposedly better track cars in their line up.
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      09-30-2020, 03:40 PM   #43
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Geez and the replacement cost then......

My GT350 brakes were awesome and the AMGs don't feel any different from the ZLE or GT350s. Which is a great thing.

I always thought it was weird that BMW came out with a six piston setup on the M2C, But not the M3/4s. I know the M2C isn't much lighter, but it is still lighter and has a better brake set up than the more expensive/supposedly better track
cars in their line up.
Replacement cost...



To be fair to M, those wear indicators are not proof that the discs are done. They have to be weighed. But obviously they're not long for this world if that's the indication after 15 sessions. Great performance while they lasted though!

Tracked my Z/28 with ceramics for a season +. Many more sessions, much heavier beast, harder on the brakes, no visible disc wear, not through one set of pads.
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      09-30-2020, 04:43 PM   #44
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10 years ago I wouldn't have envisioned myself a customer of Merc or Chevy, but I'll go wherever the best and most entertaining cars are. In another 10 years, might be a Hyundai customer with Beirmann doing his thing. I don't care. 20+ years ago I fell in love with BMW M cars, not the brand.
Beirmann in Hyundai is very, very interesting. That guy was spot on. I sometimes consider replacing my DD mini cooper s for a Veloster N just because this guy developed it -- then I remember I really prefer a RWD car if I'm going to replace the Mini.... maybe a third track car?
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