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      09-27-2013, 04:47 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaz26 View Post
So why bother??? BMW still have time to put this right? It's nonsense making M cars that have this rubbish. It's a bit like buying the car and the salesman says you will have to get your 8 year old to make the performance car noises
Not even close to having a 8 year old making engine noises... If we should say that your analogy was correct, that would also be similar to going to a Metallica concert and being told that it's a 8 year old that's going to do the singing...

A better analogy would be that you used to have front seats to the Metallica concert and could hear them without loudspeakers. Now the seats are a bit further back so the volume has to be amplified a bit through speakers so you can get the same experience (plus adding some of those sounds you missed out on at the front row seats because the lead guitarist played so loud you couldn't hear the keyboard )
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      09-27-2013, 04:48 PM   #112
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What a surprise most of the complainers are e90/e92 M3 owners . Been looking for something to complain about on the new M3?

I'm a former e90 M3 owner too and not so insecure that I need to complain about something small like this. Overlooking all the good stuff like specs and concentrate on a small issue like this. Please....
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      09-27-2013, 04:58 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
I love people who call it "fake", as others have pointed out thats like saying when you listen to music that isn't live then that is FAKE music...

The sounds (recorded or actual) are from that exact engine, not "fake". If they are indeed amped in from your actual engine, how is that fake? Those are very real engine sounds
In the music analogy wouldn't these be better descriptions:

A: Acoustic concert with no microphones or amplifiers. ( E90 M3 )
B: Concert with microphones and amplifiers ( M4 )
C: Lip sync concert. ( M5 )

It's more than aural candy though. Engine noise helps determining shift points, engine health etc. you really want it to be live and natural. The M4 solution sounds promising since here you should hear the true rpms and any hiccups from the engine the moment they occur but again it's another tech solution to what used to be naturally there.

Hopefully it can be switched off so we have the choice.

Last edited by solstice; 09-27-2013 at 05:12 PM..
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      09-27-2013, 05:02 PM   #114
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Okay so where exactly is this microphone? I take it in the manifold?
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      09-27-2013, 05:12 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
I love people who call it "fake", as others have pointed out thats like saying when you listen to music that isn't live then that is FAKE music...

The sounds (recorded or actual) are from that engine, not "fake". If they are indeed amped in from your actual engine, how is that fake? Those are very real engine sounds

If you simply don't want the engine sounds in your cabin that is a different argument, but to say they aren't real sounds is simply not true.
Technically it is fake. It's amplifying the engine noise and playing it through the cars speakers. It's not real or raw. But still better than a pre-recorded sound file like the M5 if this is indeed using a microphone.

The idea does seem ridiculous. I'm sure everyone would be laughing if some ricer hooked up a microphone in their engine bay and connected it to the speakers to make the car seem louder than it actually is. But I can see how it can be appealing if you want to hear the engine better when driving with the windows up

And it's probably something that everyone is going to have to get used to since engines will continue to get quieter, along with sound deadening, and government regulations
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      09-27-2013, 05:12 PM   #116
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time for me to switch, its pretty clear bmw is targeting a new audience
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      09-27-2013, 05:19 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tres View Post
time for me to switch, its pretty clear bmw is targeting a new audience
Good luck with your new brand.

BTW what is it that makes it pretty clear they are seeking a new audience? And what kind of audience is it they are seeking in your opinion?
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      09-27-2013, 05:29 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward View Post
Before F10 fans and M4 fans get even more pissy, I just want to point out that for decades, performance cars made from all over the world have been making engine sounds just fine all this time. Is it not a compromise that we have to hear engine sounds through our audio systems now? Again why is it that we had to get to active sound? Did they install more sound deadening material to mitigate road noise and in doing so cut engine noise? Are the engines just getting quieter? If so is it forced by some unknown decibel lowering requirement by dot? What is so wrong with spending some time on sound engineering on the actual engine/manifold/exhaust assembly than creating some patch solution to let us hear an engine through speakers? I'm SURE it sounds good guys, but what made this come to fruition?

This is what I am curious about as well. At what point was it decided that Active Sound was a better route to go instead of being "au naturale"? Hopefully it can be disabled through coding at some point.
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      09-27-2013, 05:30 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dex37 View Post
Major fail. I am totally surprised that a real petrol head would welcome this kind of feature.

I like engine and exhaust sound, but coming from the engine or the exhaust. That is a great disappointment to me!
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      09-27-2013, 05:33 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigiggs View Post
Agreed!
Why is it hard to believe?

Several cars today have active noise cancellation of some sort. Microphones pick up ambient noise or engine noise and play it back 180 degrees out of sync to combat unwanted sounds. Honda does this, Acura, Audi does it when their V8T runs in 4 cylinder mode.

It's not rocket science.
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      09-27-2013, 05:36 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemo View Post
I'm more bummed out about the 3.0 litre inline six not being a dedicated, grounds up, engine for the new M3/M4, but rather a "modular" configuration, slapped with a twin turbo. Margins and maximizing corporate profits have indeed taken over! Then there's the supposedly redesigned electric steering and impossible to get over atrocious hood line.
Have you read any of the threads? It's not even close to the N55. Slapped with twin turbos, come off it. Unless the bore and stroke info given is wrong, it's pretty much been proven that the bore spacing is different, which means a longer block, which means different heads.

Hell, even if it's not, look at the pictures, the block is substantially different.
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      09-27-2013, 05:37 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
If you feel the engine is just a mildly reworked 335i engine you should read this thread: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=893611

If info is correct, we are looking at a engine with different bore spacing (meaning a very extensive retooling process), a oversquare bore/stroke, and a completely new block (as can be seen in the pictures in the thread I linked to above).

It doesn't share any parts with the N55 apart from ancilliaries. New block, new cyl head and internals, new rotating assembly etc.

To me, that is sufficient to say that the S55 is a dedicated M engine (again, based on current info).
haha, we think alike!
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      09-27-2013, 05:37 PM   #123
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I owned a 335i, a 1M and currently drive a M135i. All are 3L turbo variants. Of these, only the M135i does have active sound, and I like it.

It allows you to experience the engine note, without pedestrians making gestures at you that you're a lunatic driver.

In other words: it doesn't scream at the outside anymore, but it can still be heard well inside the cabin.

Also: it's not like you really notice this active sound feature. Infact, if noone told you, you'd never know. Just saying it's not trying to emulate any non-natural sound. It's more like adding 10 decibels to the actual sound level...
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      09-27-2013, 05:38 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
Okay so where exactly is this microphone? I take it in the manifold?
For God's sake dude, TMI!
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      09-27-2013, 05:38 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tres View Post
time for me to switch, its pretty clear bmw is targeting a new audience
I think I might follow. Looking at what the 2015 Merc's C AMG will come up with. For now it appears to be a 4.0 TT V8. IMHO that's what the F8x M's should have been...
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      09-27-2013, 05:38 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymtime View Post
Technically it is fake. It's amplifying the engine noise and playing it through the cars speakers. It's not real or raw. But still better than a pre-recorded sound file like the M5 if this is indeed using a microphone.

The idea does seem ridiculous. I'm sure everyone would be laughing if some ricer hooked up a microphone in their engine bay and connected it to the speakers to make the car seem louder than it actually is. But I can see how it can be appealing if you want to hear the engine better when driving with the windows up

And it's probably something that everyone is going to have to get used to since engines will continue to get quieter, along with sound deadening, and government regulations
I don't like the idea of it being played with the speakers. IMO:

No active noise > noise "tube" or other mechanical connection from the engine to the compartment which amplifies noise > active sound from speakers being an amplified version of actual noise recorded > active sound from speakers being a recording.

Kind of like:

natural tits > really good fake tits > middle of the road saline fake tits > 50 year old hooker silicone fake tits with weirdly placed nipples and a big scar.
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      09-27-2013, 05:44 PM   #127
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7 pages in under 5 hours. This is going pretty well. Lol
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      09-27-2013, 05:47 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
If the engine noise is a percentage of the audio system's volume... So you could still hear the engine while cranking up the stereo... I guess that means you could pause your audio source and just crank up the engine noise via the volume control?
No, the volume knob (or volume level) does not make any difference for the Active Sound. Even turning off your stereo makes no difference. I speak from experience. To me this means that the 'volume' of Active Sound is not related to the car's audio system.

Also, you don't "hear" the Active sound. If nobody told you it was there, you would't know.
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      09-27-2013, 05:47 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIdriver View Post
I think I might follow. Looking at what the 2015 Merc's C AMG will come up with. For now it appears to be a 4.0 TT V8. IMHO that's what the F8x M's should have been...
Seems like there are a lot of muscle car enthusiasts here... The M3 has never been about that, not sad to see that other brands cater to those so inclined so that the true M3 enthusiasts can enjoy the straight six and low weight

Enjoy your fat cat muscle cars (which are good fun in their own way),
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      09-27-2013, 05:48 PM   #130
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Boo fake cabin noises.

Was this also done to appeal the "mass consumer and not just the enthusiasts", as everything else BMW has been doing as of late?
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      09-27-2013, 06:07 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M235i
Boo fake cabin noises.

Was this also done to appeal the "mass consumer and not just the enthusiasts", as everything else BMW has been doing as of late?
Everything? Whatever
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      09-27-2013, 06:08 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
Is it live or is it memorex ?

LOL some folks might not know what this statement refers to

You either showing your age or you're in the know, either way it all good


I got another one: "should'a had a.............
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