991.2 4GTS

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut

This particular car is now pending sale and I couldn't bring myself to put an ad up for mine so staying put!

Good for you! Celebrate with some wider wheels and tires and front camber plates if you don’t have them already and take it to mosport!!

[Maitre_Absolut]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Good for you! Celebrate with some wider wheels and tires and front camber plates if you don’t have them already and take it to mosport!!

One step ahead of you!

PS4S with 265 fronts (vs 255 stock PSS)

Mosport Driver development track and Grand prix track

[JoeFromPA]

Comments on MPS4 so far?

[Maitre_Absolut]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Comments on MPS4 so far?

not on the car yet still where pictured

won them at the track so got them before I needed to switch

[DS_BMW]

Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut

not on the car yet still where pictured

won them at the track so got them before I needed to switch

Tried them on the front. Steering turned to mush. Took them back off.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by DS_BMW

Tried them on the front. Steering turned to mush. Took them back off.

Don't you need to break-in a tire and wear off the mold-release lubricants before judging steering feel?

I've had a number of tires where the steering felt like absolute shit when I drove off with them. 100-500 miles later and they were brilliant.

[DS_BMW]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Don't you need to break-in a tire and wear off the mold-release lubricants before judging steering feel?

I've had a number of tires where the steering felt like absolute shit when I drove off with them. 100-500 miles later and they were brilliant.

put 800 miles on them

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by DS_BMW

put 800 miles on them

Yikes, that sucks.

[Maitre_Absolut]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Yikes, that sucks.

IIRC from that thread about 4S, Canaut had pointed out that 265 4S tire are an OE spec mercedes rear tire, may have something to do with it.

CS was designed for 265 fronts (cup 2 though)

[adc]

Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut

dont care for cheap thrill nature of tuning ecu. Never have, never will.

Why not? BMW does it all the time. Or what do you think is the difference between base, competition and CS engines?

[adc]

I may be in the minority saying any version of the C4 is not worth it. I drove my friend’s 991.2 C4 GTS Targa and wasn’t impressed. The steering feel with AWD is diminished to a level only slightly better than an M3 with camber plates, and gone is the playful nature to be enjoyed on the street.

AWD in a Porsche IMO just damps the character of the car, and adds too much traction (and weight). It becomes unfeasible to get it to move around on the street, and there isn’t any payback at the track either.

What I’m saying may be controversial, but I want my car to change attitude with the throttle, it is an essential part of the experience for me. Even a C2S has borderline too much traction on the street, although that may pay dividends on the track.

To each his own.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by adc

I may be in the minority saying any version of the C4 is not worth it. I drove my friend’s 991.2 C4 GTS Targa and wasn’t impressed. The steering feel with AWD is diminished to a level only slightly better than an M3 with camber plates, and gone is the playful nature to be enjoyed on the street.

AWD in a Porsche IMO just damps the character of the car, and adds too much traction (and weight). It becomes unfeasible to get it to move around on the street, and there isn’t any payback at the track either.

What I’m saying may be controversial, but I want my car to change attitude with the throttle, it is an essential part of the experience for me. Even a C2S has borderline too much traction on the street, although that may pay dividends on the track.

To each his own.

Agree, RWD 911's are the way to go, also as good as the Targa looks and despite its value in the long run, I'd skip it, adds too much weight.

[DS_BMW]

Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut

IIRC from that thread about 4S, Canaut had pointed out that 265 4S tire are an OE spec mercedes rear tire, may have something to do with it.

CS was designed for 265 fronts (cup 2 though)

There are two 265 PS4S. I tried the generic one. I think it's a bit to wide for a 9" rim. Mercedes fitment is slightly more narrow.

[jfritz27]

Originally Posted by DS_BMW

Tried them on the front. Steering turned to mush. Took them back off.

Did you play with the pressures? There's another thread on here somewhere suggesting that the 4S needs higher pressures (perhaps pushing 40) to optimize steering feel.

[VeloF1]

I owned 2012 Turbo S. I like driving my M4 more. MPE and MP HAS. slightly wider tires and lighter wheels. Turbo was clearly faster and stopped on a dime. Yet, M4 more entertaining. I also recently just About bought a Carrera 4 GTS with all the performance add-ons. Just not worth it to me.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by adc

I may be in the minority saying any version of the C4 is not worth it. I drove my friend’s 991.2 C4 GTS Targa and wasn’t impressed. The steering feel with AWD is diminished to a level only slightly better than an M3 with camber plates, and gone is the playful nature to be enjoyed on the street.

AWD in a Porsche IMO just damps the character of the car, and adds too much traction (and weight). It becomes unfeasible to get it to move around on the street, and there isn’t any payback at the track either.

What I’m saying may be controversial, but I want my car to change attitude with the throttle, it is an essential part of the experience for me. Even a C2S has borderline too much traction on the street, although that may pay dividends on the track.

To each his own.

“GT or bust”

[adc]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

This, and a few others who have said it are right. 911 is another level than anything M3/4/CS/GTS/whatever variation. I recently sold my 991.2S and 991.2 Carrera T and having owned both an M3 and M4 there’s no comparison. That said, I have a 718 GT4 coming and could not be more excited about it. Hopefully will get a 992 GT3 allocation as well.
Overall punchline, the 911 is well worth it. I don’t know how Porsche does electric steering so well and everyone else is so bad at it. Bmw made a big deal of their steering in the M3/4 and it’s nowhere near what it was hyped up to be. Porsche electric is better than any hydraulic bmw ever had in the e46 or e92s (owned multiple of each). I also am not huge on many turbo motors but the 3.0 liter F6 is a masterpiece and much more fun and linear than the s55.

I disagree with you on many things, but especially so about the motor. BMW does turbo much better than Porsche, at least in the 3L category. My friend has briefly owned a 991.2 C2S and we drove it back to back with my car - he was the one who made the initial comment, not me.

He then sold C2S for an M3 CS, which he thought was much more fun on the street. I guess they never gave him the gallon of Porsche branded coolaid with any of his cars.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by adc

I may be in the minority saying any version of the C4 is not worth it. I drove my friend’s 991.2 C4 GTS Targa and wasn’t impressed. The steering feel with AWD is diminished to a level only slightly better than an M3 with camber plates, and gone is the playful nature to be enjoyed on the street.

AWD in a Porsche IMO just damps the character of the car, and adds too much traction (and weight). It becomes unfeasible to get it to move around on the street, and there isn’t any payback at the track either.

What I’m saying may be controversial, but I want my car to change attitude with the throttle, it is an essential part of the experience for me. Even a C2S has borderline too much traction on the street, although that may pay dividends on the track.

To each his own.

Just an observation but that is, I believe, the worst performing 911 of that generation. It is heavier and possibly less stiff than a C4S convertible. The targa is that bulky. It's ~350-400 pounds heavier than a low weight base C2.

I have not driven all the variations of the 991.2 so I'm not commenting on your impression, just commenting that I also would expect the c4s targa to be the "worst" feeling of the bunch and may have to drive a well specced c4s or gts 4 to get a real feel of the negatives of AWD.

FWIW, I just bought an AWD 911 because for me the f80 platform made me "fear" high HP RWD applications where I live due to constant traction issues.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Just an observation but that is, I believe, the worst performing 911 of that generation. It is heavier and possibly less stiff than a C4S convertible. The targa is that bulky. It's ~350-400 pounds heavier than a low weight base C2.

I have not driven all the variations of the 991.2 so I'm not commenting on your impression, just commenting that I also would expect the c4s targa to be the "worst" feeling of the bunch and may have to drive a well specced c4s or gts 4 to get a real feel of the negatives of AWD.

FWIW, I just bought an AWD 911 because for me the f80 platform made me "fear" high HP RWD applications where I live due to constant traction issues.

The rwd 911 actually puts the power down insanely well. 60% of the vehicle weight out back plus large tires = tons of traction.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

The rwd 911 actually puts the power down insanely well. 60% of the vehicle weight out back plus large tires = tons of traction.

I asked rwd 911 owners if they’d stay rwd if they drove in my conditions year round. Many said they’d go awd.

Take it for what it’s worth.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut

IIRC from that thread about 4S, Canaut had pointed out that 265 4S tire are an OE spec mercedes rear tire, may have something to do with it.

CS was designed for 265 fronts (cup 2 though)

As far as I know, at present time, the PS4S in 265/35R19 size only exists in generic spec.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

I asked rwd 911 owners if they’d stay rwd if they drove in my conditions year round. Many said they’d go awd.

Take it for what it’s worth.

Sure I get it where you live in a climate with cold snowy winters.

I was interpreting your comments of the F80 making you fear powerful rwd cars as referring to lack of traction even in warm conditions (we know the F80 lights up the rear tires very easily). So I was saying that even though the 911 is a powerful rwd car, its engine placement and overall engineering put the power down with no problem.