[Video]:CarWow drags BMW M3 vs Audi RS4 vs Tesla Model 3 Performance

[Bahn360Photo]

I was surprised he explained CCB normally and didn't say bmw won brake test because of 8k brakes

Drag race is obvious,
Rolling race I was surprised that Audi didn't beat Tesla

[Cars are the new horse]

Originally Posted by Ghosn

As hellrotm mentioned, they basically do their rolling races in comfort mode and simulate you cruising down the highway and all of a sudden you need to quickly get on the gas and race someone.

I don't agree with their methods but that's how they do it.

Who drives one of these cars in comfort mode?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Bahn360Photo

I was surprised he explained CCB normally and didn't say bmw won brake test because of 8k brakes

Drag race is obvious,
Rolling race I was surprised that Audi didn't beat Tesla

CCB make zero difference in braking distance on a single stop.

[Bahn360Photo]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

CCB make zero difference in braking distance on a single stop.

Exactly, that's what I said, he said it right

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Bahn360Photo

Exactly, that's what I said, he said it right

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I've been refuting this CarWow approach from the get-go.

It's not just CarWow - C&D, MT and R&T have been using that same method forever because it's more representative of what happens in normal street driving.

[Cars are the new horse]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

It's not just CarWow - C&D, MT and R&T have been using that same method forever because it's more representative of what happens in normal street driving.

Again, I doubt it with these types of cars. Who drives in comfort mode in an M4?

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

It's not just CarWow - C&D, MT and R&T have been using that same method forever because it's more representative of what happens in normal street driving.

That's just being lazy, especially when the DCT drops three gears as quickly as you can flick the paddles.

[Fortyb]

Originally Posted by nirvanayoda

Again, I doubt it with these types of cars. Who drives in comfort mode in an M4?

Occasionally I do going to work in the morning. But the norm for me is Sport-Comfort-Comfort

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

That's just being lazy, especially when the DCT drops three gears as quickly as you can flick the paddles.

My last 2 vehicles were Audis with dual clutch transmissions, so I have 8 years of driving experience with those. As quick and responsive as they were, nothing compares to an EV for accelerator/throttle response, regardless of where one is in the rev range of an ICE vehicle.

All that said, enjoy your car, as I will mine!

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

My last 2 vehicles were Audis with dual clutch transmissions, so I have 8 years of driving experience with those. As quick and responsive as they were, nothing compares to an EV for accelerator/throttle response, regardless of where one is in the rev range of an ICE vehicle.

All that said, enjoy your car, as I will mine!

I respectfully disagree
The response @ 8k rpm in a built itb f20c is marvelous
And you'll still have another 2.5k rpm go

No amount of EV tq will beat that feeling

[Humdizzle]

i'd have to agree with EV having better response time than an ICE

its physics. you put your foot down, electric signal travels to the battery, battery sends power to wheel. Its as fast as the speed of light

ICE engine... put your foot down, throttles open / injectors send more fuel, spark plug ignites mixture, pistons move, crank delivers power to transmission, transmission sends power to the drive shaft, and then to the wheels.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

My last 2 vehicles were Audis with dual clutch transmissions, so I have 8 years of driving experience with those. As quick and responsive as they were, nothing compares to an EV for accelerator/throttle response, regardless of where one is in the rev range of an ICE vehicle.

All that said, enjoy your car, as I will mine!

I see. Your joy of driving is to stomp on a pedal and hear nothing, no skill needed, no interaction.

When I stomp on the pedal of an ev, it is 100% immediately, but no crescendo, and actually the power lessens as the speed picks up, which is really a decrescendo. I suppose that's useful cutting people off, but really how many people do I want to cut off and what joy does that bring everyday?

Sorry, I am not trying to offend anyone with an ev, but I drove the 3P and it did not give me more driving satisfaction. I am impressed with the tech and instant speed, but that can be said about my new washer/dryer too- it does wash and dry my dirty clothes faster. I just don't dream about using it like I do with my cars.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I see. Your joy of driving is to stomp on a pedal and hear nothing, no skill needed, no interaction. .

Isn’t your 911 pdk? So stomp pedal, flick buttons?

I’m just teasing, I still have my 911 around too despite all my posts about EVs, so I get it

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by nirvanayoda

Again, I doubt it with these types of cars. Who drives in comfort mode in an M4?

I do. My DD setting is Efficient/Comfort/Comfort/S1/MDM.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Isn’t your 911 pdk? So stomp pedal, flick buttons?

I’m just teasing, I still have my 911 around too despite all my posts about EVs, so I get it

That's fair, I have driven manuals for over a decade (e36 m3, e46 m3) and I live in so cal, with traffic it is actually not fun enough to drive manual for me to buy one.

I do however drive all my dual clutch cars in manual 99% of the time, once the car has warmed up from a cold start. I am not co-relating driving skill with driving fun- I am just saying that I enjoy the interaction with the car vs these new ev's. A good dct transmission is nearly as fun as a manual to me, expecially these days with auto rev, negating heel/toe.

btw, my criticisms apply to the new m3 as well, I don't like the zf8 and awd, so I guess I won't be buying one.

[Arcades]

I'm not overly fond of ZF8 either. Great tranny but honestly just no emotion when driving. The only thing I like about it is that it blips on up shifts which I like but other than that, it has no feel or emotion. That is also my complaint about the RS5 I just drove. I wish Audi managed to shove their DSG in it, which would place the car immediately on my next car list.

lol nvm wrong person :P

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Arcades

I'm not overly fond of ZF8 either. Great tranny but honestly just no emotion when driving. The only thing I like about it is that it blips on up shifts which I like but other than that, it has no feel or emotion. That is also my complaint about the RS5 I just drove. I wish Audi managed to shove their DSG in it, which would place the car immediately on my next car list.

lol nvm wrong person :P

That must be a typo...

We also very much disliked the feel of the 8AT in the S4 and RS5 when we were shopping. The DSG in the RS3 is much better. The VW/Audi DSG is a transaxle and therefore only used on their transverse mounted engine platforms. The longitudinal ones get the 8AT.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by Arcades

I'm not overly fond of ZF8 either. Great tranny but honestly just no emotion when driving. The only thing I like about it is that it blips on up shifts which I like but other than that, it has no feel or emotion. That is also my complaint about the RS5 I just drove. I wish Audi managed to shove their DSG in it, which would place the car immediately on my next car list.

lol nvm wrong person :P

The zf8 issues are the following for me:

1. No skip* shifts:

two gear drop request-

DCT 7-5
ZF8 7-6-5

three gear drop request-
DCT: 7-4
ZF8: 7-6-4* (only skips 5th)

2. Overheating-

zf8 drivetrain malfunction happened 3 times to me in the x5m, locking gears and refusing paddle shifts.
edmunds supra test Carlos said his supra on 2 occasions refused 3-2 gear change request.

3. chassis disruption during downshift

at S3 mode, the x5m downshifts will snap and disrupt the chassis, the pdk and dct will shift seemlessly without abrupt snap.

4. torque modulation

zf8 will lower torque at lower gears to save the tranny from wear and damage, I do not feel linear torque delivery at WOT.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That must be a typo...

We also very much disliked the feel of the 8AT in the S4 and RS5 when we were shopping. The DSG in the RS3 is much better. The VW/Audi DSG is a transaxle and therefore only used on their transverse mounted engine platforms. The longitudinal ones get the 8AT.

That engineering part I didn't know about.

The RS5 I did hear the blips on the upshifts, but it was extremely subtle unlike the F90 M5 where it's generally in your face. I read that, the reason Audi didn't put the DSG in the RS5 is due to torque. The Audi DSG can't handle the torque but DSG is in the R8 for some reason but not the RS5. I could have read that wrong of course but who knows.

I think I mentioned in the thread I put up, there was some little "issues" with the ZF8 in the RS5 but I can generally forgive it because I was expecting it not to blow my mind. So, my expectation on the car wasn't great other than (I like the outside looks and Virtual Cockpit) bit. Did end up liking the RS5 more than I thought, which is surprising in itself.

I really want to avoid my next car having a Torq Auto, no matter how good the ZF8 is in the BMWs generally. Really do want to drive the RS3 though.

DKM3 don't you think though, the reason the ZF8 is taking over as it is, is due to just general factors? Lower in weight, and it is easier to drive for the general public? I mean, how many M-DCT whining threads have you seen as of late about people not knowing the little small details regarding the M-DCT tranny?

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by Arcades

DKM3 don't you think though, the reason the ZF8 is taking over as it is, is due to just general factors? Lower in weight, and it is easier to drive for the general public?

The reason zf8 is taking over is that we are at a fork in the road on ICE cars.

There is no longitudinally mounted DCT transmission that can handle the amount of torque the front engine sedans are making these days. BMW would have to spend large R and D money with a supplier like Getrag on a technology that is dying. This money is better spent on electrification and hybrid models. *actually ford's TREMEC DCT for the GT500 Mustang might be the only dct currently in the market.

Moreover, the front engined, rear wheel drive platform has arguably been maxed out. You cannot get better 0-60 times without traction, so all high po sedans will now be AWD.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I see. Your joy of driving is to stomp on a pedal and hear nothing, no skill needed, no interaction...

Whatevs.

Been driving for 40+ years, SCCA Racing license holder, owned many MT vehicles. I enjoy the Tesla more than any car I’ve previously owned.

YMMV, as the acronym goes. Ciao!