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      10-03-2017, 06:06 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
Yup! No doubt about it! Trash! Who "designs" brake pads like that? ...and they only last ONE full track day before the pads completely wore away. (I actually waited an extra 6 weeks for their "Track" pads!)

(I have LOTS of photos of their failed kit if anyone needs more evidence!)

RacingBrake wouldn't even refund the full price of their kit! I guess there was a little wear and tear on their rotors (No kidding!). Luckily Amex covered the balance of the original kit cost. But now I'm out the cost of the two CCB rotors that their kit effectively destroyed. I think that's about another $3000 out of pocket for me...

Lousy Product, Bad Company!

Anyway, I'm now onto a full set of Front/Rear Essex/AP Radi-CAL Brake Rotors/Calipers/Pads. All that should be here in a couple of weeks when I get back in Country.

Once I get the AP kits installed, I'll get on the bench replacing/rebuilding my OEM CCB Calipers... I know I'm going to need at least one new caliper, maybe two...
Does anyone else have a Rotor/pad retrofit for the CCBs?
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      10-04-2017, 11:53 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by CSanto View Post
Does anyone else have a Rotor/pad retrofit for the CCBs?
I don't believe so...

Perhaps the lesson here is that a retrofit kit is a compromise by any measure. My experience was, in fact, much worse than a simple compromise - it actually damaged my car. If you are trying to find metallic race pads to fit the OEM CCB calipers your choices will obviously be quite limited. Without a doubt, the pads from RB are pure crap and chosen without proper engineering review in the process.

I'm putting a full ESSEX/AP Radi-CAL kit on in a couple of weeks. It will obviously involve changing the calipers as well, but now that the RB "retrofit kit" has destroyed my factory front calipers, I need new ones anyway.

On a positive note, the AP Radi-CAL kit is a proper competition brake kit with LOTS of pad options from a variety of vendors. The new calipers fit pads which are 50% thicker (18mm) than the factory calipers will allow (12mm). In fact, if you have wheels which will clear the fitment, they also have another kit which provides 100% more pad thickness (24mm). The AP calipers also allow quick pad replacement without having to remove the calipers (unlike the factory BMW/Brembo CCB Calipers)...

Changing the calipers is no big deal. ...and you have to take off your factory CCB calipers to replace the pads anyway. All that's left is disconnecting/reconnecting the brake lines and some additional bleeding.
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      10-04-2017, 12:13 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
I don't believe so...

Perhaps the lesson here is that a retrofit kit is a compromise by any measure. My experience was, in fact, much worse than a simple compromise - it actually damaged my car. If you are trying to find metallic race pads to fit the OEM CCB calipers your choices will obviously be quite limited. Without a doubt, the pads from RB are pure crap and chosen without proper engineering review in the process.

I'm putting a full ESSEX/AP Radi-CAL kit on in a couple of weeks. It will obviously involve changing the calipers as well, but now that the RB "retrofit kit" has destroyed my factory front calipers, I need new ones anyway.

On a positive note, the AP Radi-CAL kit is a proper competition brake kit with LOTS of pad options from a variety of vendors. The new calipers fit pads which are 50% thicker (18mm) than the factory calipers will allow (12mm). In fact, if you have wheels which will clear the fitment, they also have another kit which provides 100% more pad thickness (24mm). The AP calipers also allow quick pad replacement without having to remove the calipers (unlike the factory BMW/Brembo CCB Calipers)...

Changing the calipers is no big deal. ...and you have to take off your factory CCB calipers to replace the pads anyway. All that's left is disconnecting/reconnecting the brake lines and some additional bleeding.

Okay this is good information. I'm contemplating trading my car for a ZCP 2018, and I dont think I'll do the ceramic option again. I'll go aftermarket for the BBK.

Thanks!
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      10-04-2017, 12:32 PM   #136
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I REALLY like CCB's. Nothing performs better on the track. But they are expensive (on the track). I'm spending $12K a year just on rotors, maybe another $2-3K on pads. But my car see's "full-on" track sessions 95% of the time.

I'm still trying to find a suitable alternative (and the RacingBrake kit has proven itself definitely NOT to be it). However, that being said, I'm still keeping my CCB components on the shelf, ready to be re-installed if I don't find something which performs reasonably close.

IMHO, unless you are seriously tracking your car, I would buy CCB all day long. No brake dust, great performance, last forever (on the street). However, you may want to decide if you are willing to pay over $12K/year just for the superior performance of the CCB's on the track. I'm still trying to see if I can find a track solution which gets me 90-95% of the performance at a significant reduction in running costs... If not, I'll continue to run the CCB's.
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      10-04-2017, 02:42 PM   #137
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I have the RB kit installed but I'm using RB's street pads (vs. RB's track pads that evanevery is using). I'm also not tracking the car. Performance has been solid so far. I have about 1,000 miles on the kit and haven't noticed any problems. I used Performance Technic (here in the Bay Area) for the install and plan to have them checked soon.
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      10-04-2017, 02:53 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ONE1 View Post
I have the RB kit installed but I'm using RB's street pads (vs. RB's track pads that evanevery is using). I'm also not tracking the car. Performance has been solid so far. I have about 1,000 miles on the kit and haven't noticed any problems. I used Performance Technic (here in the Bay Area) for the install and plan to have them checked soon.
You replaced your CCB's with an RB kit and you're NOT tracking your car?

Why would you do that? The CCB's last forever on the street (and NO brake dust)...
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      10-04-2017, 03:04 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
You replaced your CCB's with an RB kit and you're NOT tracking your car?

Why would you do that? The CCB's last forever on the street (and NO brake dust)...
That's right. It was purely aesthetic. I wasn't starting with CCB's. I upgraded from the standard brakes (with blue calipers) and the car was never going to see the track. I agree with you - if you have CCB's and not planning to track, it's not worth replacing the rotors. Again, I went with the street pads (not the track pads) and will report back if any issues arise. They've been solid so far.
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      10-04-2017, 03:10 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ONE1 View Post
That's right. It was purely aesthetic. I wasn't starting with CCB's. I upgraded from the standard brakes (with blue calipers) and the car was never going to see the track. I agree with you - if you have CCB's and not planning to track, it's not worth replacing the rotors. Again, I went with the street pads (not the track pads) and will report back if any issues arise. They've been solid so far.
So you got one of their FULL kits which include their calipers? (The CCB RETROFIT kit uses the BMW/Brembo CCB Calipers)

Hopefully you'll have better luck with that...

However, personally, I would NEVER buy anything from RB again knowing how poorly their retrofit kit was designed... Whoever chose those pads to work with our 6-piston CCB Calipers had their head fully up their A$$. I bet they sourced those pads from someone who designed them to work with 4-piston calipers (not the CCB 6-piston calipers). They may physically fit the outline, but no one in their right mind is going to design void spaces underneath piston rims!
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      10-04-2017, 03:30 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery
Quote:
Originally Posted by ONE1 View Post
That's right. It was purely aesthetic. I wasn't starting with CCB's. I upgraded from the standard brakes (with blue calipers) and the car was never going to see the track. I agree with you - if you have CCB's and not planning to track, it's not worth replacing the rotors. Again, I went with the street pads (not the track pads) and will report back if any issues arise. They've been solid so far.
So you got one of their FULL kits which include their calipers? (The CCB RETROFIT kit uses the BMW/Brembo CCB Calipers)

Hopefully you'll have better luck with that...

However, personally, I would NEVER buy anything from RB again knowing how poorly their retrofit kit was designed... Whoever chose those pads to work with our 6-piston CCB Calipers had their head fully up their A$$. I bet they sourced those pads from someone who designed them to work with 4-piston calipers (not the CCB 6-piston calipers). They may physically fit the outline, but no one in their right mind is going to design void spaces underneath piston rims!
That's correct. It was the full kit with their street pads and the gold Brembo calipers that come with the CCB Package. I'm not anticipating any issues from street use, but I'll keep an eye on them and report back. So far, I'm happy with them.
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      10-05-2017, 01:14 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrat 2 View Post
Front rotor for one non CCB is 565 at ecs and 3600 for the ccb equivalent. Do the math. If you plan on tracking the car you're better off financially without the ccb since it's unlikely that the ccb rotor will last longer than 7 non ccb rotors. If you are street only you are also better off financially without since it's unlikely that you'll have to replace your rotors enough times to offset the $8150 cost of the option. Bottom line is that they are great technology but at current price points hard to justify other than that they bring lower unsprung weight.

As an aside, my buddy with a Porsche and factory ccb replaced them with non ccb as he tracks his car a lot and couldn't rationalize the cost.
Well...

I ran the CCB's on the track for one season. I went through two sets of front pads, one set of rears and a full set of rotors. My yearly expense was over $12K all said and done... My track has three locations each lap where its necessary to brake down from over 100-130 mph to 30-40 mph for some pretty demanding corners. So its pretty hard on brakes.

HOWEVER!

This year I tried the RacingBrake CCB replacement kit which swaps out the CCB rotor with an iron rotor and includes "Track" pads. This kit is "advertised" to allow swapping out the CCB Rotors and Pads while maintaining the original calipers.

Complete and Total Failure! I burned through the front set of "TRACK" pads in less than a day and a half at the track (about 180 miles). The pads actually went metal-on-metal with the rotors and the car departed the track. I sent all the stuff back to RB and had to go to Amex to get a full refund on the kit. Maybe their rotors were OK but their pads were crap. Brake pads should last more than a day at the track.

I went back to the CCB's... They won't be any more expensive than changing out the RB pads every single track day all season long... (Or as much as a PITA...) CCB's are expensive but at least they are reliable!

The M3/M4 is a pretty heavy car and front brake cooling is a real challenge. INd is going to work with Fall Line this winter to see if they can design a proper brake cooling kit for the car (one which does NOT use CF for brake shields). The other challenge is getting enough air to the front brakes and I'm told (by a German BMW Engineer) that you can't really move enough air through the coolers in the front fender wells - you need dedicated scoops. I've asked if they could make some easily detachable, very thin scoops for mounting under the front lip which could be removed when NOT at the track (for clearance).

I'm also planning to mount an AP brake kit this winter to see how well it performs/lasts.

However, the CCB brakes have been the best solution I've found so far!
After spending two sets of rotors in two seasons, I went with AP Racing bbk sets. I installed them pre-summer and so far I?m super satisfied with them and there is almost no wear on rotors so far as well as the pads, I strongly recommend them.
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      10-05-2017, 10:11 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ONE1 View Post
That's correct. It was the full kit with their street pads and the gold Brembo calipers that come with the CCB Package. I'm not anticipating any issues from street use, but I'll keep an eye on them and report back. So far, I'm happy with them.
If the kit included the OEM BMW/CCB calipers, that probably means you are getting the same pads as I got (except the street compound).

Check the backing plates on the RB brake pads. I'll bet you'll find there are large lightening holes directly under the piston contact area. Not good!
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      10-05-2017, 04:21 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
If the kit included the OEM BMW/CCB calipers, that probably means you are getting the same pads as I got (except the street compound).

Check the backing plates on the RB brake pads. I'll bet you'll find there are large lightening holes directly under the piston contact area. Not good!
I did not check the backing plates before they were installed, but will confirm.

I have reached out to RacingBrake since you and I spoke by PM. So far, they are saying the backing plate has been made the same for decades and is the same as other pad mfgs. They also said they have had no issues with them and that they guarantee it's performance, durability, and safety for street driving.

I'll report back when I have more.
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      10-13-2017, 06:07 PM   #145
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RB kit

Sounds like the thing to do is to get the RB rotors for the CCB calipers and get track pads elsewhere. I like the Carbotech idea -- I have used their XP 10/8 setup on my Mini JCW and was very happy with it. Good to know they are flexible with producing that size pad.

Anyone else know if Hawk, Pagid, or anyone else makes aftermarket nonceramic track pads for the CCB calipers?

I'm trying to outfit my '15 M3 for the track. I bought it used, it came w/ CCB's. I'm not about to track them; just want to do HDPE / track days, nothing competitive, so not worth $12k+ to me to have the unsprung weight benefit. Bought an extra set of stock wheels and put sport cup 2's on them for the track, so they'll work w/ the CCB calipers without spacers, fender rolling, DCS issues, etc.
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      10-19-2017, 04:12 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AY4EVR View Post
Sounds like the thing to do is to get the RB rotors for the CCB calipers and get track pads elsewhere. I like the Carbotech idea -- I have used their XP 10/8 setup on my Mini JCW and was very happy with it. Good to know they are flexible with producing that size pad.

Anyone else know if Hawk, Pagid, or anyone else makes aftermarket nonceramic track pads for the CCB calipers?

I'm trying to outfit my '15 M3 for the track. I bought it used, it came w/ CCB's. I'm not about to track them; just want to do HDPE / track days, nothing competitive, so not worth $12k+ to me to have the unsprung weight benefit. Bought an extra set of stock wheels and put sport cup 2's on them for the track, so they'll work w/ the CCB calipers without spacers, fender rolling, DCS issues, etc.
Be careful... It appears that's exactly what RacingBrake did. They made (procured?) some rotors and then went out to find metallic (non-CCB) pads which would "fit" the BMW/Brembo/CCB calipers...

They made a terrible choice in choosing pads which simply "fit" the calipers. They obviously did not check the piston contact area on the pad backing plate (or did not care). This not only destroyed my pads and rotors but also effectively destroyed my pistons and calipers as well. (...and they wouldn't even refund the full cost of their kit - much less the price of the additional damage it did to my calipers). Based on the hole pattern in the backing plate, I'm guessing the pads they found which "fit" were intended for 4-piston calipers and not the 6-piston CCB calipers.

Just because a pad "fits" the calipers doesn't mean its appropriate for the application. My case is a perfect example. Take a look at the photos I posted of the RB pad backing plate to see what the piston contact area looked like and see the resulting damage to the pads/plates and calipers.

Pad backing plate design aside, it may not even be sufficient to find a metallic pad which "works" (vs "fits") the CCB calipers. The CCB calipers only have room for pads which have about 12mm of pad material. While this thickness might be sufficient for CCB pads, it might very well not be sufficient for metallic pads. The smallest variant of the AP/Essex Radi-Cal brake kit I am now getting ready to put on the car uses 18mm pads and they have another which supports 24mm pads. 12mm might be OK for CCB pads, but maybe not for metallic....

I've been running CCB's on the track and they work great. The unspring weight is the least of it. The initial bite is better, the grip is more linear, they don't fade, and they actually last longer than iron brakes. They DO perform better on the track. Its just that they are much more expensive to maintain. If I can get 95% of the performance at 25% of the maintenance cost, that would be a good thing. If you are not regularly tracking your vehicle I probably wouldn't even change them out (no brake dust)... I went through a full set of rotors and 2 full sets of pads in about a year of track time. (My car sees about 95% track use). That's about 25 full-on track days with each day consisting of 5-6 25 minutes sessions. ...and these are not "club days". These are full on track sessions where I can often go a whole session and never have to negotiate a point-by (either way). On average, there might only be 2-5 cars on the track during an entire session. So yeah, "full on", continual high speeds and heavy braking! ;-)

Ironically, its when you run the CCB's hard (or competitively) that they become very expensive. If you are only running a couple of HPDE track days a year I would never consider switching them out. HPDE events are not that demanding and if you are only running a couple of them a year...

BTW... A cheaper/better track solution is to run Apex Arc-8 wheels (19x10 et 25) wheels square. They will clear the CCB's, suspension, and bodywork just fine, are available in black, are a much cheaper wheel ($300). Running them square will allow you to rotate any wheel to any corner to balance wear. The Sport Cup 2's are a great tire but if you are running a dedicated set of track wheels you'll find the Hoosier R7 (285/35-19) race slicks will run circles around them on the track! The R7's are about the same price as the Cup2's ($300) and you can buy them from Tire Rack already heat cycled in.

Last edited by evanevery; 10-19-2017 at 04:19 PM..
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      10-19-2017, 05:13 PM   #147
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Arrow $37K brake job... ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
I've been running CCB's on the track and they work great. The unspring weight is the least of it. The initial bite is better, the grip is more linear, they don't fade, and they actually last longer than iron brakes. They DO perform better on the track. Its just that they are much more expensive to maintain.

Did you see this video? Be glad you don't drive a Lambo! lol


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      10-25-2017, 09:52 AM   #148
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A bit late to the party here but I really like the gold CCB calipers and wondered if it was possible to run them on OEM non-ceramic discs and normal pads?
As an M2 owner, there's a few full CCB successful conversions, and also one that's running the OEM gold calipers upfront with M5 discs, this person is using OEM normal pads by Brembo.
Has anyone now found a normal daily pad that will fit these calipers.
Else, probably best to find the OEM paint code (which some say in called Meridian Gold) and get my current blue calipers powder coated.
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      11-05-2017, 05:58 AM   #149
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Thanks for manuals
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      05-08-2018, 01:01 PM   #150
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How long does a set of pads and rotors last? 2 sets of pads to a set of rotors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
I REALLY like CCB's. Nothing performs better on the track. But they are expensive (on the track). I'm spending $12K a year just on rotors, maybe another $2-3K on pads. But my car see's "full-on" track sessions 95% of the time.

I'm still trying to find a suitable alternative (and the RacingBrake kit has proven itself definitely NOT to be it). However, that being said, I'm still keeping my CCB components on the shelf, ready to be re-installed if I don't find something which performs reasonably close.

IMHO, unless you are seriously tracking your car, I would buy CCB all day long. No brake dust, great performance, last forever (on the street). However, you may want to decide if you are willing to pay over $12K/year just for the superior performance of the CCB's on the track. I'm still trying to see if I can find a track solution which gets me 90-95% of the performance at a significant reduction in running costs... If not, I'll continue to run the CCB's.
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      05-08-2018, 02:25 PM   #151
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That's about what I was seeing for track use... 2 sets of pads and the rotor was pretty much done. (Additionally, the rears were consuming pads about half as fast as the front).

I should also say, that a very well informed BMW Engineer in Munich also told me that if the rotors were even the slightest bit above "done", then you can put them through a whole new set of pads. IOW: They only checked the rotors when changing pads, and if the rotors weren't done, then they weren't done! (So you might get THREE sets of pads if you played it by the numbers...) He also confirmed that the CCB rotors do not fail dramatically if taken below mins, they just gradually lose stopping power...

I have replaced all CCB calipers/rotors/pads with an Essex/Apex 5000R race set. So far they are performing very well and seem to be consuming slower than the CCB's. The CCB components are all boxed up and put away...

Last edited by evanevery; 05-08-2018 at 02:36 PM..
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      06-07-2018, 01:59 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
That's about what I was seeing for track use... 2 sets of pads and the rotor was pretty much done. (Additionally, the rears were consuming pads about half as fast as the front).

I should also say, that a very well informed BMW Engineer in Munich also told me that if the rotors were even the slightest bit above "done", then you can put them through a whole new set of pads. IOW: They only checked the rotors when changing pads, and if the rotors weren't done, then they weren't done! (So you might get THREE sets of pads if you played it by the numbers...) He also confirmed that the CCB rotors do not fail dramatically if taken below mins, they just gradually lose stopping power...

I have replaced all CCB calipers/rotors/pads with an Essex/Apex 5000R race set. So far they are performing very well and seem to be consuming slower than the CCB's. The CCB components are all boxed up and put away...
Did you replace the booster when you went to the Essex kit? Any programming needed?

I have CCB now but may switch to aftermarket in the future.

Thanks
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      06-11-2018, 12:28 PM   #153
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Did you replace the booster when you went to the Essex kit? Any programming needed?

I have CCB now but may switch to aftermarket in the future.

Thanks
No need to replace the booster or reprogram. Reprogramming (for rotational mass changes) MIGHT have a slight benefit for pure street use (optimum anti-lock performance) but not really necessary for track use... (IMHO)

Just replaced the calipers, pads, and rotors then flushed the brake fluid....
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      06-24-2018, 02:00 AM   #154
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Sorry for the amateurish question, but with the F8X factory CCBs, all parts are carbon ceramic, right? Including the calipers?

Also, if you could get the entire set of CCBs for 10k, why would anyone pay 4500 for a rotor?
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