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      12-12-2013, 12:48 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex07M3 View Post
Just so you know, $8k(supercharger+test pipes) in mods on the S65 will give you ~500whp, I think that's some pretty good bang for the buck! And the sound it makes!!

I have gone down the supercharging an NA BMW route, I am a happy camper.

But going that route vs a tune, downpipes on an already factory boosted car is very different in terms of cost and complexity, especially if you are like me and do most of the work yourself.
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      12-12-2013, 12:56 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxa121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
M4 is 50 pounds lighter than M3, but the 435i is 55 pounds HEAVIER than the 335i? why would BMW do that?

so the M4 got 100 pounds more cut off than the M3, very strange.

maybe I read the specs on the F30/32 wrong?
.
.
.
The 4 series chassis is wider than the standard 3 series, since the M3 and M4 sit on the exact same chassis (likely based on the 4 due to it being lower and wider) it stands to reason that this is why the regular 435i is heavier than a 335i while the M4 is lighter than essentially the same car with a larger body (M3).
Agree?
They are not being built at the same plant.
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      12-12-2013, 01:18 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex07M3 View Post
Just so you know, $8k(supercharger+test pipes) in mods on the S65 will give you ~500whp, I think that's some pretty good bang for the buck! And the sound it makes!!

I have gone down the supercharging an NA BMW route, I am a happy camper.

But going that route vs a tune, downpipes on an already factory boosted car is very different in terms of cost and complexity, especially if you are like me and do most of the work yourself.
I know what you meen and I hope I don't sound rude for saying this, but I don't agree with you! First of, installing a VT1 is really not that complex and second, I'd be surprise if you could get close to that amount of power without changing the turbos on the S55, wich will probably be far more expensive and complex! Hopefully I'm wrong on this one because I would love to own a M3/M4 in a couple of years but not if it ain't any faster then my current E92, specially since I would already have to give up on the S65 sublime sound!
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      12-12-2013, 01:26 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako
Quote:
Originally Posted by flagger
Those that can not keep their right foot out of the throttle are going to be buying rear tires a lot. This car will probably spin it tires as much as a Merc C63 with the torque it is producing. Merc can't seem to get their rear wheels hooked up easily. Hopefully the chassis engineers at BMW have solved that problem with the new M's.

Also, fuel tank capacity appears to have gone down to 15.8 gal. I'm glad to see the mpg figure go up, but I was hoping for a slightly larger tank than the E92, perhaps 17 - 17.5 gal.

Overall, should be a stunning car to drive and look forward to their arrival.
Being a former C63 owner I will agree it burns through tires. But the new M3 has less weight to propel and still about 40 less torque. The C63 also had a very aggressive alignment. I only got 6k miles from my stock tired then 9k on my replacement mich pps tires, fronts lasted 25k.
I spoke to a guy and its not only about the torque. The c63 doesnt have room for a much wider tire, which it needs.
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      12-12-2013, 01:33 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxa121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuned1M View Post
Looks like Terry has one of the first build spots so it shouldn't be too long before he cracks the DME and provides another great tuning solution for the M3/M4.
very cool, although what psi do you guys think is realistic here? Most n54 tunes bring it up to around 16 psi I thought, and those put out impressive numbers on the same compression, bore, stroke, and volume.

Hmmmm. I see some forged internals in the specs, and additional cooling, but what will be the failure point with additional boost?

Personally, I would leave it bone stock. I think it will be an excellent package from the factory. Maybe give it the same treatment that my car now has, a PPK and PE. Sweet spot.
Yep. Until further advancement and a few years i wouldnt want to be the test subject lol.

Gtr vs m3/4. 1000hp version.
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      12-12-2013, 01:39 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
They are not being built at the same plant.
Their weight differences have nothing to do with where they're built!
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      12-12-2013, 01:52 AM   #117
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Nice to see some additional specs and media.

This car is going to offer a drivers race against a Porsche 911S (latest 991 variant) at least in a straight line and at do so for at least $25k less. I've been saying that all along and it will. It will be well below 3.9s 0-60 as well. The flip side is nice (and I think that means quite a lot coming from me...) new American cars like the Mustang are really stepping up their game (various higher end and yet to be officially announced versions) and will hang with or best the M4 for about the same amount of spend less! There will be many more solid competitors as well. First world problem we have for sure...

I should post some updated simulation results but they really have not changed much since this effort.

That's the good, here is some of the bad.

I'm disappointed that this engine appears to have much in common with the N54/N55. If it is not the exact parts it sure is the heart of the design and dimensions. Although I have not seen it confirmed nor denied yet, I strongly suspect it will also share the key bore spacing value with these older engines. Thus alas, we will not have the bespoke M engine we thought we might get with the S55. Call it what you like but this is an evolved N54 (recall that the N54 has both valvetronic, direct injection and twin turbos).

The car is stated to have 50% unique components compared to a standard 4 series. That is down MASSIVELY from the 80% number quoted for the prior E92 M3. As I've stated elsewhere the cars are becoming less special and cost is driving standardization.

Some other comments/observations on the OP:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
CFRP drive shaft
  • tested for speeds up to 205 MPH
I'd rather know the max permissible torque value over the maximum speed, much more relevant. Tell us how much more torque capacity it has over a similar steel unit (I know, that's a pipe dream type of request).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Suspension / Tires / Brakes
  • Lightweight aluminum construction for components such as control arms, wheel carriers and axle subframes saves 11 pounds (5kg) over a conventional steel design

Saves 11 lb over what exactly? The current M3 has a full aluminum front suspension (and subframe). More BMW marketing BS...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Physicals / Curb Weight / Construction
  • Cd (drag coefficient): To Come
Cd and Area is provided in inline document from BMW. Cd is up quite a bit from 0.31 in the E92 to 0.34 in the M4.
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Last edited by swamp2; 12-12-2013 at 02:08 AM..
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      12-12-2013, 02:01 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Nice to see some additional specs and media.

This car is going to offer a drivers race against a Porsche 911S (latest 991 variant) at least in a straight line and at do so for at least $25k less. I've been saying that all along and it will. It will be well below 3.9s 0-60 as well. The flip side is nice (and I think that means quite a lot coming from me...) new American cars like the Mustang are really stepping up their game (various higher end and yet to be officially announced versions) and will hang with or best the M4 for about the same amount of spend less! There will be many more solid competitors as well. First world problem we have for sure...

I should post some updated simulation results but they really have not changed much since this effort.

That's the good, here is some of the bad.

I'm disappointed that this engine appears to have much in common with the N54/N55. If it is not the exact parts it sure is the heart of the design and dimensions. Although I have not seen it confirmed nor denied yet, I strongly suspect it will also share the key bore spacing value with these older engines. Thus alas, we will not have the bespoke M engine we thought we might get with the S55. Call it what you like but this is an evolved N54 (recall that the N54 has both valvetronic, direct injection and twin turbos).

Some other comments/observations on the OP:



I'd rather know the max permissible torque value over the maximum speed, much more relevant. Tell us how much more torque capacity it has over a similar steel unit (I know, that's a pipe dream type of request).




Saves 11 lb over what exactly? The current M3 has a full aluminum front suspension (and subframe). More BMW marketing BS...



Cd and Area is provided in inline document from BMW. Cd is up quite a bit from 0.31 in the E92 to 0.34 in the M4.
+1 Keepin it real

A lot of the quoted weight savings will come from the carbon ceramic brakes (40+lbs).
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      12-12-2013, 02:06 AM   #119
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The new Mustang GT is going to definitely give this car a run for its money. Guaranteed the GT will have more HP in an only slightly heavier car (making at least equal power:weight).

Not only that, but the exhaust note on this car sounds like crap, if we're honest. If BMW has to pump in the noise through a mic into the cabin speakers, you can't tell me it's any good naturally.

BMW hasn't done much. It's just another slight evolution of the car. Little more HP, little less weight, some new frills to look at. S550 Mustang GT will be a far larger evolution of a package at HALF the cost, and keep up with this car on the track. Mods are far cheaper than it too.
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      12-12-2013, 04:51 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder
By the way, good luck to the aftermarket tuning community.

At 18psi from the factory and the new Bosch ECU's, it will be very difficult to crack. Probably even harder than the new M5/6 which has proved very difficult. Even the best tunes are seeing limp modes. Even throwing on catless downpipes will be met with "torque overlimit" which will cause limp during sustained WOT runs.

In straight line racing, the e9X M3's will have the upper hand for a long time. Let's see how the new M3/4 does at the track.
My thoughts exactly. We'll have to wait and see if a successful solution is developed. I'd be a shame not to be able to mod the hell out if this motor. So much potential.
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      12-12-2013, 05:39 AM   #121
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where are the pictures of the coupe:

http://www.autoblog.nl/nieuws/de-nie...fficieel-63643

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      12-12-2013, 06:26 AM   #122
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I have to say the M3 and M4 are fascinating car with its sporty yet refined style.
Truth watch video after the 2 cars seem incredible in every aspect, high quality, art, power and adrenalin. I believed at first the M4 Austin Yellow in color not like me now I think the opposite, the car looks great and highlight lines.
It's strange because I saw 12 years ago ago for the firs time in Phoenix Yellow M3 E46 was the most amazing color I had seen in that car.
I must say that the M3 at Yas Marina Blue in certain lighting conditions look good but in others it is rare.
For M4 with applause Austin Yellow takes.
I think all members of the forum was very necessary to see the video for a closer to reality opinion.
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      12-12-2013, 07:01 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimabimmer
wtf!!! ???

BMW just lost me as a customer?

or maybe, just maybe I am moving onto M5... or something like that...

there is no way I want to be associated to Mitsubshi in any way

sorry, but I am a snob.
You do know BMW doesn't actually make a bunch of their parts right? They are outsourced to OE suppliers.
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      12-12-2013, 07:38 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Nice to see some additional specs and media.

This car is going to offer a drivers race against a Porsche 911S (latest 991 variant) at least in a straight line and at do so for at least $25k less. I've been saying that all along and it will. It will be well below 3.9s 0-60 as well. The flip side is nice (and I think that means quite a lot coming from me...) new American cars like the Mustang are really stepping up their game (various higher end and yet to be officially announced versions) and will hang with or best the M4 for about the same amount of spend less! There will be many more solid competitors as well. First world problem we have for sure...

I should post some updated simulation results but they really have not changed much since this effort.

That's the good, here is some of the bad.

I'm disappointed that this engine appears to have much in common with the N54/N55. If it is not the exact parts it sure is the heart of the design and dimensions. Although I have not seen it confirmed nor denied yet, I strongly suspect it will also share the key bore spacing value with these older engines. Thus alas, we will not have the bespoke M engine we thought we might get with the S55. Call it what you like but this is an evolved N54 (recall that the N54 has both valvetronic, direct injection and twin turbos).

Some other comments/observations on the OP:



I'd rather know the max permissible torque value over the maximum speed, much more relevant. Tell us how much more torque capacity it has over a similar steel unit (I know, that's a pipe dream type of request).




Saves 11 lb over what exactly? The current M3 has a full aluminum front suspension (and subframe). More BMW marketing BS...



Cd and Area is provided in inline document from BMW. Cd is up quite a bit from 0.31 in the E92 to 0.34 in the M4.
+1 Keepin it real

A lot of the quoted weight savings will come from the carbon ceramic brakes (40+lbs).
The 80 kilo weight savings vs. an E90 M3 is when comparing similarly equipped vehicles. Unless the E9x somehow came with CCB's that I don't know about, that will represent a further weight savings.
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      12-12-2013, 09:28 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purecraftgerman View Post
I have to say the M3 and M4 are fascinating car with its sporty yet refined style.
Truth watch video after the 2 cars seem incredible in every aspect, high quality, art, power and adrenalin. I believed at first the M4 Austin Yellow in color not like me now I think the opposite, the car looks great and highlight lines.
It's strange because I saw 12 years ago ago for the firs time in Phoenix Yellow M3 E46 was the most amazing color I had seen in that car.
I must say that the M3 at Yas Marina Blue in certain lighting conditions look good but in others it is rare.
For M4 with applause Austin Yellow takes.
I think all members of the forum was very necessary to see the video for a closer to reality opinion.
Imagine an M4 in Frozen Grey with Full Silverstone Leather and Carbon Fiber trim.
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      12-12-2013, 09:30 AM   #126
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Have these been posted?
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      12-12-2013, 09:37 AM   #127
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how about this one?
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      12-12-2013, 09:39 AM   #128
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^^Haven't seen that one yet. thanks
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      12-12-2013, 09:49 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Some other comments/observations on the OP:



I'd rather know the max permissible torque value over the maximum speed, much more relevant. Tell us how much more torque capacity it has over a similar steel unit (I know, that's a pipe dream type of request).




Saves 11 lb over what exactly? The current M3 has a full aluminum front suspension (and subframe). More BMW marketing BS...



Cd and Area is provided in inline document from BMW. Cd is up quite a bit from 0.31 in the E92 to 0.34 in the M4.
According to this video carbon fiber driveshaft is much stronger than steel.

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      12-12-2013, 10:04 AM   #130
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additional infos & images & videos can be found here.
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      12-12-2013, 10:40 AM   #131
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Wow....I actually think the M4 looks waaaaay better than I thought it would...this will be a hard choice for me....Gt500 / M3/M4 / 205 C63 (if specs ever come out)
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      12-12-2013, 10:54 AM   #132
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Updated with new M4 videos: exterior, interior and driving footage.
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