Data recording devices for the track

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by mid-corner fun

awesome, just looked at the info, that'll do it! weekend project coming up.

thanks!

Let us know updates!

[mid-corner fun]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

Let us know updates!

Just tested the Solo/CAN solution on track.

Good news is that the Solo/CAN wiring worked great and it's a very simple install primarily following Tom's awron install instructions. The Solo connector has 4 marked cables, 12V, GND, CAN+ & CAN-, you can tap into them via the FEM_BODY module:
Connector 3 Pin 20: 12V
Connector 3 Pin 24: GND
Connector 8 Pin 47: CAN-
Connector 8 Pin 48: CAN+

The usual warning, this may cause damage to your car, if you try this you're on your own. A vendor that has historically sold Solo CAN harnesses will have an F8x solution soon, you may want to wait for the "clean" solution.


Bad news is that the amount of channels currently available for the Fxx platform is incomplete, compared to what was available in the e9x platform. There's no oil/water data, there's no brake pressure data. There are 28 ECU channels in the PT6 (e9x) protocol and only 13 in the new F21 (F8x) protocol, you can do a comparison by going in RaceStudio2 and selecting PT6 and then F21. I've sent a request to Aim support for more F21 ECU channels, let's see what they say.

HTH

[M3Tooner]

Originally Posted by mid-corner fun

There are 28 ECU channels in the PT6 (e9x) protocol and only 13 in the new F21 (F8x) protocol, you can do a comparison by going in RaceStudio2 and selecting PT6 and then F21. I've sent a request to Aim support for more F21 ECU channels, let's see what they say.

HTH

Thanks for the update.
So what are the 13 channels that are available?

[mid-corner fun]

Originally Posted by M3Tooner

Thanks for the update.
So what are the 13 channels that are available?

Matrix of Aim protocols per BMW model (F8x uses F21)

http://www.aim-sportline.com/downloa...II_eng_117.pdf

List of F21 ECU channels and descriptions at the bottom of this doc:

http://www.aim-sportline.com/downloa...21_101_eng.pdf

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

...Connector 8 houses a pair of CAN wires that can be used.

Originally Posted by mid-corner fun

The Solo connector has 4 marked cables, 12V, GND, CAN+ & CAN-, you can tap into them via the FEM_BODY module:
Connector 3 Pin 20: 12V
Connector 3 Pin 24: GND
Connector 8 Pin 47: CAN-
Connector 8 Pin 48: CAN+

Hi Tom,
I was checking few other wiring connections and referencing the FEM A173 Pinout from ISTA/D, i have few questions:

A173*3B, info in ():
- Pin 20: 12V (Activation relay Terminal 15N, is this switched/ignition ?)
- Pin 24: GND (refrigerant pressure sensor ground, why not use pin 6 Ground?)

A173*8B: can one use the OBD2 socket (X6) as a solution instead of tapping to A173, as pins X6 6/14 are CAN_H/_L? (There's this X451 terminating resistor...)
- Pin 45: Bus signal diagnosis -> X6, Pin 14 D_CAN_L
- Pin 46: Bus signal diagnosis -> X6 Pin 6 D_CAN_H
- Pin 47: CAN-
- Pin 48: CAN+

Thanks!
P.s. Vin shown is a random Vin.

[shaftwhy]

I found M laptimer's vs mode very useful:

Since I am not consistent so 20% of my laps are faster than others. Using vs mode tells me where I am faster and why. Sometimes I thought it's because of reason A but end up to be reason B. By using vs mode, I hope I can develop more accurate self analysis so that if I feel good about a lap, I can tell where and why I was faster and use M laptimer to confirm.

Once M laptimer has gopro integration, that will be even better.

Originally Posted by racsos

Hello,

I want to get some advice. I want to be able to video record my time on the track along with steering, braking, speed, and gas inputs. I have looked into Harry's lap timer, but it seems a bit complicated. If this is the best solution, I am willing to get everything needed and install, but first i wanted to check with all of you?

So if you could please let me know all the gear you use at the track and what you like about it. Also please include mounts and best location for sound and video. Thanks in advance.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

Hi Tom,
I was checking few other wiring connections and referencing the FEM A173 Pinout from ISTA/D, i have few questions:

A173*3B, info in ():
- Pin 20: 12V (Activation relay Terminal 15N, is this switched/ignition ?)
- Pin 24: GND (refrigerant pressure sensor ground, why not use pin 6 Ground?)

A173*8B: can one use the OBD2 socket (X6) as a solution instead of tapping to A173, as pins X6 6/14 are CAN_H/_L? (There's this X451 terminating resistor...)
- Pin 45: Bus signal diagnosis -> X6, Pin 14 D_CAN_L
- Pin 46: Bus signal diagnosis -> X6 Pin 6 D_CAN_H
- Pin 47: CAN-
- Pin 48: CAN+

Thanks!
P.s. Vin shown is a random Vin.

We were using these pins as they are the same locations used/verified for the Awron DGA displays which we've installed in the past. Mutiple grounds are common.

PIN20 is +12V switched.

[M3Tooner]

Originally Posted by mid-corner fun

I've sent a request to Aim support for more F21 ECU channels, let's see what they say.

HTH

Did you hear back from AIM customer service regarding supporting more channels for the F21 ECU protocol?

If they are not going to update, maybe it is not worth it to pay more for the SOLO DL, just get the SOLO base model instead? What do you guys think?

[mid-corner fun]

Originally Posted by M3Tooner

Did you hear back from AIM customer service regarding supporting more channels for the F21 ECU protocol?

If they are not going to update, maybe it is not worth it to pay more for the SOLO DL, just get the SOLO base model instead? What do you guys think?

Yeah, and it does not look good.

AiM does not appear to be committed to having a full F-series ECU protocol anytime soon. They confirmed the missing channels and stated that any F21 protocol changes will require further development. No ETA and no confirmation that the request will even be addressed. They suggested I switch to the M235i ECU protocol which contains more channels (confirmed, it works on the F8x), however that protocol is also missing brake channels.

YMMV but I need real per-corner brake data to have meaningful data analysis, not simulated brake info. I'm still collecting data w/the Solo but looking at alternate solutions.

It wouldn't hurt if you guys opened additional support cases with AiM requesting oil/water & per-corner brake data to be added to the F21 protocol.

[M3Tooner]

Thanks for the update. I also sent a request to their technical support in Italy. Doesn't look promising.

Here's the reply:

Hello,

the number of available channels depends on the info we receive from manufacturers, teams and customers.

If we will receive more details on the F-series proprietary CAN protocol, we will be glad adding new parameters to the existing driver.



Best regards,
Stefano D'Andria
Technical Support
Aim Tech S.r.l.
Via Cavalcanti, 8
20063 Cernusco Sul Naviglio (MI)
Italy

Yeah, "brake pressure" would've been more useful than "brake status" that they have now. Isn't that just like a ON/Off brake signal? Of course individual wheel brake pressure is even better. Useful to see if there is any Stability Control intervention.

Good to know the M235i protocol works on F80. At least it is up to 21 channels. I'll attach the channel list here for others that are interested.

[mid-corner fun]

Yeah, "brake pressure" would've been more useful than "brake status" that they have now. Isn't that just like a ON/Off brake signal? Of course individual wheel brake pressure is even better. Useful to see if there is any Stability Control intervention.

Good to know the M235i protocol works on F80. At least it is up to 21 channels. I'll attach the channel list here for others that are interested.

ECU_BRAKE_STATE is useless, it has values of 0 (off) or 7 (on) (see edit below)



Oil/Water temps on the other hand are indeed very useful (as part of the M235i protocol) albeit not as important in the F8x as they were in the E9x platform. BMW has done a great job keeping the F8x cool on track.

I'd be curious as to what information AiM needs from BMW to add brake data to the F21/M235i protocols.

Edit: to clarify, BRAKE_STATE has integer values of 0 through 7, so you have an idea of how hard you're braking but nowhere near the granular bar data per corner of the previous protocols.

[tomtang]

AIM Solo DL for the win in the M3.

I run an AIM MXL2 in my race car.

[aboulfad]

M3Tooner , mid-corner fun , does the M laptimer, see my pic attached with DSC intervention I think, capture what you guys are discussing re braking? If yes, the data is available and is being sent to the app, so it's a matter for someone to figure out how to retrieve/access this information. The bootmod3 platform from PTF lists brake pressure as a data logging point, so maybe get PTF to talk to AIM

The AIM still interfaces to the CAN bus, but our cars have an ENET interface that is limitless if one knows where and what to look for! (I don't )

[M3Tooner]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

M3Tooner , mid-corner fun , does the M laptimer, see my pic attached with DSC intervention I think, capture what you guys are discussing re braking? If yes, the data is available and is being sent to the app, so it's a matter for someone to figure out how to retrieve/access this information. The bootmod3 platform from PTF lists brake pressure as a data logging point, so maybe get PTF to talk to AIM

The AIM still interfaces to the CAN bus, but our cars have an ENET interface that is limitless if one knows where and what to look for! (I don't )

aboulfad It looks like M laptimer is displaying brake pedal data (not sure if it is brake pressure or brake status). Assuming the best case if it is brake pressure, it still will not tell you about DSC intervention. You need individual wheel brake pressure data to tell. DSC works by braking individual wheels as it sees necessary to bring the car back inline, won't see that detail at the master cylinder pressure sensor.

[aboulfad]

@M3Tooner , i can assure you that this was not me braking if you look closer to the very fast variations in brake pressure, and trust me, I am not that quick! I agree for DSC, you'd need individual brake data, but that pic shows somewhat what DSC was doing as I wasn't braking in that curve and it's a curve you don't brake in, or you just tap the brakes, but lost control in wet, and the DSC was there to save my ass.

In any case, you confirmed that the M laptimer does show some brake data (its brake acceleration in units of g??) and it's not on or off, if you look at an M laptimer event you see it varying all along, you probably knew this... I've attached few more shots when I tap the brakes.

[M3Tooner]

Ok, I missed that the units are in g's. That cannot be brake pedal data then. It is the longitudinal g-sensor displaying your deceleration g's. Obviously you don't even need to touch the brake pedal to register deceleration g's, which explains what you are seeing. The spikes in your data is likely the by product of DSC intervention causing a jerkiness in the car and registering as deceleration g's.

Looking at this website, it confirms there is no brake pressure data recorded in M laptimer.
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/owners/bmw...mw_m_laptimer/

Performance data
BMW M Laptimer records the following data:
- GPS position
- Speed
- Forward acceleration
- Lateral acceleration
- Acceleration from 0 to 100 km/h or 60 mph
- Accelerator pedal*
- Steering angle*
- Deceleration*
- Engine speed*
- Gear*
- Consumption*
* Data may be unavailable for vehicles of certain models years and configurations. Please visit our support page for more details.

[MyFragileHalogen]

I hate that M-laptimer often crashes itself and doesn't save data. Also it seems like when I spin out and stalls the car (6MT), it dumps the data it was recording as well.

[aboulfad]

Maybe it crashes because you are driving too fast! It's been ok si far on my iPhone 6 w 5 different sessions.

[aboulfad]

@M3Tooner given the info you found, it makes me think that maybe some of the lateral/longitudinal is maybe obtained from the iPhone accelerometer although the linked page says it's from sensors! But back to the subject at hand, so then maybe BMW doesn't expose brake pressure data???

[mid-corner fun]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

@M3Tooner given the info you found, it makes me think that maybe some of the lateral/longitudinal is maybe obtained from the iPhone accelerometer although the linked page says it's from sensors! But back to the subject at hand, so then maybe BMW doesn't expose brake pressure data???

I would think it comes down to the AiM engineers talking to BMW engineers on deciphering CAN info.

quick example of what we're talking about: same 2 turns at NJMP Thunderbolt, hard braking at T1, tap at T2, via the same Solo DL unit:

F80 brake data (unknown unit of measurement):



e92 M3 brake data (bar pressure):



ignore the lift, picked a random sample to demonstrate the difference in granularity.

[aboulfad]

@mid-corner fun , BMW would never provide any internal proprietary data! Maybe to partners but don't know. That E92 brakes graph looks close to what we have on the m laptimer, although we know in F8x it's not that ne the E92 data is per wheel?... that's pretty cool !

[MyFragileHalogen]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

Maybe it crashes because you are driving too fast! It's been ok si far on my iPhone 6 w 5 different sessions.

Could be my old iphone 5, but I have an ipresseion that m-laptimer has some bugs. Could be one reason why they don't release the gopro mlaptimer integration; perhaps they found some critical problems to make them work reliably?

By the way, there is a free lesson gift from BMW in m-laptimer data that I am sure most will overlook. If you look at the data from Mike@ BMW Performance Center, you can see how he does trail braking, trailing throttle and all the goodies!