Eisenmann Exhaust Systems GmbH F80 M3 / F82 M4 first look!

[rjd598]

Originally Posted by kgroschi

And this is supposed to be a good sound nowadays? Wow... I just drove the M4 for a few days and I gotta say it's the least emotional M car I have ever driven in my life. I know you guys gonna shoot me for it, but I test so many cars for living and it's just disappointing that not only M has gone to cars that feel so filtered but also that the M enthusiast is slowly dying out and happy with whatever as long as it's fast. Comparing the M4 with the Boxster GTS, I would have no reason to go for the M. I know... unbelievable. I used to be an M5 owner and an absolute M lover.

are you basing that off sound? it kind of does that's why i ask. everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but no one so far has taken their comments that far about the f8x. generally everyone loves it

[W///]

Originally Posted by kgroschi

Is that supposed to be an attack? Is it really that BMW owners are turning more and more into douchebags!? Pretty sad but again supporting my original statement.

The 335i isn't very emotional at all. Better than your average Camry, but that's about it. At least it gained some fun with Cobb, Alpina TCU and PE exhaust. But I occasionally drive my GT3 RS 4.0 when I am back in Germany.... talking about emotions and stuff.

As a journalist or whatever you do, I would think you'd understand what turbos do to sound. Listen to to the difference between a 911 GT3 vs Turbo, Pagani Zonda vs Huyara, McLaren F1 vs P1.

You obviously changed the exhaust of your 335i to make it louder, so why couldn't you do that with an M3/4? When I look at a car, the exhaust sound isn't the only thing I consider. If it's not up to par, I'm more than happy to change the system out to the way I want. Hell, the E9x M3 sounded good, but it was so damn quiet anyway in stock form, so who cares?

What do I think of M3/4 sound? Way better IRL than on Youtube videos, and I'd actually be pretty happy with leaving it as is for now until someone figures out a semi-affordable option. In other areas, it has plenty of drama I think

[IB M]

Interesting in the video to hear the sound from outside and inside the cabin. It has not come up yet on this thread but did the two sounds seem different to anyone? They did to me. I will definitely be coding out the active sound on the new M, not because it is all that terrible inside the car but for no other reason than to just know I am hearing the actual.

[kgroschi]

Originally Posted by rjd598

are you basing that off sound? it kind of does that's why i ask. everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but no one so far has taken their comments that far about the f8x. generally everyone loves it

Originally Posted by W///

As a journalist or whatever you do, I would think you'd understand what turbos do to sound. Listen to to the difference between a 911 GT3 vs Turbo, Pagani Zonda vs Huyara, McLaren F1 vs P1.

You obviously changed the exhaust of your 335i to make it louder, so why couldn't you do that with an M3/4? When I look at a car, the exhaust sound isn't the only thing I consider. If it's not up to par, I'm more than happy to change the system out to the way I want. Hell, the E9x M3 sounded good, but it was so damn quiet anyway in stock form, so who cares?

What do I think of M3/4 sound? Way better IRL than on Youtube videos, and I'd actually be pretty happy with leaving it as is for now until someone figures out a semi-affordable option. In other areas, it has plenty of drama I think

No I am not JUST basing it off sound. And yes I do know what turbos do to sound, that's one reason I am generally not a big fan of turbo charged engines.

Sound is extremely important for an enthusiastic driving experience in my opinion. If I had said that 10 to 15 years ago, mostly everyone would agree. Nowadays, we have no choice but to adapt and even be satisfied with a turbo i6 sound, which I think is very sad. I also think that the Huayra sounds terrible compared to the Zonda, and even if I had the money for it, I wouldn't buy the thing because of that. It might be that I am a sound addict, for me it's just part of fast cars. I just had the Boxster GTS for 10 days and WOW, what an amazing machine. It sounds absolutely incredible. It makes the 4.7 seconds to 63 mph feel like 4 seconds. Every up- and downshift and overrun just sounds incredible and just makes you smile 110%. The M4 on the other hand... nothing. You don't hear the thing. I am sure it sounds better with an aftermarket exhaust, but it's still miles away from anything naturally aspirated or supercharged. The sound of the engine itself is a joke too. It sounds like my N54. No mechanical noise. Nothing that engages me as a driver. Of course the M3/M4 has incredible performance, and probably the best turbo charged engine on the market with incredible throttle response, but it just lacks emotion.

Steering and cabin wise I just feel everything is so numb in the new M4. The steering is too artificial and doesn't give any feedback. Everything is too much set up to be a comfortable GT car, which is not what I want in an M3.

I know I am the minority this time, even in the journalistic world, but I can live with it. I am a HUGE M fan. I have owned M cars and BMW is my favorite manufacturer. I know a few people at BMW that even agree with my point but their hands were just tied and they had to go this route to be more efficient and of course to sell more M3s/M4s than ever before, which is the main problem in my eyes. Every car has to be able to do everything, because they want to sell more cars than ever before in every quarter. It's like some journalists say about the Huracan. That it is too safe for a Lamborghini. It's too easy to drive. You can't switch off all the systems etc., which I think is pretty boring for a car of that caliber.

Anyways, I am not a hater. Just a believer in unique driving machines, like BMW M's used to be. But I guess as a customer I will just have to look at other brands like Porsche for example... I mean honestly, once you have driven a GT3 RS 4.0 you are spoiled for life

Now slaughter me F80 owners

[Maz335i]

Nothing wrong with what u said. You're entitled to ur opinion. The M3/4 is not a car for you.

Enjoy your GT3RS 4.0; that sure is a beast!

And I can't wait to pick up my M3...which for me is a beast too!

[RingMeister01]

Originally Posted by kgroschi

Is that supposed to be an attack? Is it really that BMW owners are turning more and more into douchebags!? Pretty sad but again supporting my original statement.

The 335i isn't very emotional at all. Better than your average Camry, but that's about it. At least it gained some fun with Cobb, Alpina TCU and PE exhaust. But I occasionally drive my GT3 RS 4.0 when I am back in Germany.... talking about emotions and stuff.

I don't get how often posters throw out an exotic car they own to validate their opinions. Ok you have a GT3 RS you've represented that either you have cash or are in huge debt. But owning an exotic doesn't change that your clueless.

[e92proper]

Still sounds terrible. More so now between shifts! What is that blop blop? Ugh

[gthirtyfizle]

Originally Posted by e92proper

Still sounds terrible. More so now between shifts! What is that blop blop? Ugh

LOL must suck owning an e92 right now huh?

[BLACK OPS]

I think this sounds like a huge and positive upgrade. This is the only mod you need.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by kgroschi

No I am not JUST basing it off sound. And yes I do know what turbos do to sound, that's one reason I am generally not a big fan of turbo charged engines.

Sound is extremely important for an enthusiastic driving experience in my opinion. If I had said that 10 to 15 years ago, mostly everyone would agree. Nowadays, we have no choice but to adapt and even be satisfied with a turbo i6 sound, which I think is very sad. I also think that the Huayra sounds terrible compared to the Zonda, and even if I had the money for it, I wouldn't buy the thing because of that. It might be that I am a sound addict, for me it's just part of fast cars. I just had the Boxster GTS for 10 days and WOW, what an amazing machine. It sounds absolutely incredible. It makes the 4.7 seconds to 63 mph feel like 4 seconds. Every up- and downshift and overrun just sounds incredible and just makes you smile 110%. The M4 on the other hand... nothing. You don't hear the thing. I am sure it sounds better with an aftermarket exhaust, but it's still miles away from anything naturally aspirated or supercharged. The sound of the engine itself is a joke too. It sounds like my N54. No mechanical noise. Nothing that engages me as a driver. Of course the M3/M4 has incredible performance, and probably the best turbo charged engine on the market with incredible throttle response, but it just lacks emotion.

Steering and cabin wise I just feel everything is so numb in the new M4. The steering is too artificial and doesn't give any feedback. Everything is too much set up to be a comfortable GT car, which is not what I want in an M3.

I know I am the minority this time, even in the journalistic world, but I can live with it. I am a HUGE M fan. I have owned M cars and BMW is my favorite manufacturer. I know a few people at BMW that even agree with my point but their hands were just tied and they had to go this route to be more efficient and of course to sell more M3s/M4s than ever before, which is the main problem in my eyes. Every car has to be able to do everything, because they want to sell more cars than ever before in every quarter. It's like some journalists say about the Huracan. That it is too safe for a Lamborghini. It's too easy to drive. You can't switch off all the systems etc., which I think is pretty boring for a car of that caliber.

Anyways, I am not a hater. Just a believer in unique driving machines, like BMW M's used to be. But I guess as a customer I will just have to look at other brands like Porsche for example... I mean honestly, once you have driven a GT3 RS 4.0 you are spoiled for life

Now slaughter me F80 owners

No slaughtering. You have subjective opinions that are different from other people's. That's just life

Where you are at least partly wrong is in explaining why they went turbo. You said

I know a few people at BMW that even agree with my point but their hands were just tied and they had to go this route to be more efficient and of course to sell more M3s/M4s than ever before, which is the main problem in my eyes. Every car has to be able to do everything, because they want to sell more cars than ever before in every quarter.

It wasn't done to make it more mass market. It was because, like all but the small manufacturers, BMW had to meet certain fleet efficiency requirements in both Europe and USA or face major fines, which would have been very stupid business. The only way to keep performance and get efficiency in a car at this price point is turbo. It's the modern world.

As for longing for what once was (whether in M or Lambo or whatever) the past is the past. A Biplane was a more authentic and natural flying experience than a modern plane but which would I rather fly in? Don't get too caught up in nostalgia or you'll miss what is happening.

[Jaymax85]

6000 for a catback makes me sick to my stomach.. Guess I'll be browsing for a used one pending what dinan has in store

[consolidated]

Originally Posted by kgroschi

Anyways, I am not a hater. Just a believer in unique driving machines, like BMW M's used to be. But I guess as a customer I will just have to look at other brands like Porsche for example... I mean honestly, once you have driven a GT3 RS 4.0 you are spoiled for life

Now slaughter me F80 owners

What publications do you write for? If you come here calling yourself a journalist then I believe it's fair to be asked and disclose.

Isn't comparing an RS, much less a 4.0 to a M3 disingenuous and uninsightful? They sell in hugely different numbers with very different goals. I own one, and race a Boxster and absolutely love this new M car for what it is. Or I could come here and say your 4.0 is a sloppy piece of overweight pose-mobile compared to driving a Lotus Seven, F40 or $15K Formula Ford...see how that works? Not very interesting or thoughtful to me.

[ROBD314]

Why don't you guys take the "F8X sounds horrible and is not emotional" conversation to one of the numerous "F8X sounds horrible and is not emotional" threads....This is for people who like the car and are interested in enhancing the sound with an Eisenmann system

[bluekn8286]

Wow! This exhaust actually made the M3/M4 sound appealing; BMW needs to take notes from the Eisenmann sound engineers

[gthirtyfizle]

Originally Posted by bluekn8286

Wow! This exhaust actually made the M3/M4 sound appealing; BMW needs to take notes from the Eisenmann sound engineers

If they did thAT, eisenmann would b out of a job lol

[jeremyr4]

Originally Posted by kgroschi

No I am not JUST basing it off sound. And yes I do know what turbos do to sound, that's one reason I am generally not a big fan of turbo charged engines.

Sound is extremely important for an enthusiastic driving experience in my opinion. If I had said that 10 to 15 years ago, mostly everyone would agree. Nowadays, we have no choice but to adapt and even be satisfied with a turbo i6 sound, which I think is very sad. I also think that the Huayra sounds terrible compared to the Zonda, and even if I had the money for it, I wouldn't buy the thing because of that. It might be that I am a sound addict, for me it's just part of fast cars. I just had the Boxster GTS for 10 days and WOW, what an amazing machine. It sounds absolutely incredible. It makes the 4.7 seconds to 63 mph feel like 4 seconds. Every up- and downshift and overrun just sounds incredible and just makes you smile 110%. The M4 on the other hand... nothing. You don't hear the thing. I am sure it sounds better with an aftermarket exhaust, but it's still miles away from anything naturally aspirated or supercharged. The sound of the engine itself is a joke too. It sounds like my N54. No mechanical noise. Nothing that engages me as a driver. Of course the M3/M4 has incredible performance, and probably the best turbo charged engine on the market with incredible throttle response, but it just lacks emotion.

Steering and cabin wise I just feel everything is so numb in the new M4. The steering is too artificial and doesn't give any feedback. Everything is too much set up to be a comfortable GT car, which is not what I want in an M3.

I know I am the minority this time, even in the journalistic world, but I can live with it. I am a HUGE M fan. I have owned M cars and BMW is my favorite manufacturer. I know a few people at BMW that even agree with my point but their hands were just tied and they had to go this route to be more efficient and of course to sell more M3s/M4s than ever before, which is the main problem in my eyes. Every car has to be able to do everything, because they want to sell more cars than ever before in every quarter. It's like some journalists say about the Huracan. That it is too safe for a Lamborghini. It's too easy to drive. You can't switch off all the systems etc., which I think is pretty boring for a car of that caliber.

Anyways, I am not a hater. Just a believer in unique driving machines, like BMW M's used to be. But I guess as a customer I will just have to look at other brands like Porsche for example... I mean honestly, once you have driven a GT3 RS 4.0 you are spoiled for life

Now slaughter me F80 owners

For what it's worth, I felt the EXACT same way when I first made the switch from my E46 M3 to E93 M3 (they were both convertibles). I actually owned 4 different E46 M3s so I'm also an M fan Anyhow, I was VERY upset by how much I disliked the E93 M3 at first. The lack of sound/involvement made me convinced that M lost its rawness and I was shocked at first. BUT, for the first time, I decided to modify the exhaust on my E93 M3 (I went with an OEM Exhaust Mod, which is ironically essentially what BMW did with the F8x M3 in Sport/Sport+ mode) and I literally went from major disappointment to thrilled. Did I still miss the steering and road feel of my E46 - YES. But did the visceral V8 make up for it - YES.

That's why I'm currently reading this thread and the M Performance Exhaust thread, among others. I learned that modifying the exhaust on these cars can make it MUCH more appealing for us true hardcore M fans. I don't love the fact that it will probably be necessary to modify the exhaust on the F8x series for me (in all fairness I haven't driven or heard one in-person yet) but I have already learned that it can turn my M hate into M bliss

Anyhow, that's some food for thought for you. Aside from the visceral help you'll receive from an exhaust mod, we're not going back to the good old days where you feel your M car run over a dime and where you were truly connected to the road to the degree of a GT3 (the GT3 is still my dream car - amazing car). So it will probably take you a while to get over the good old days but I, for one, would recommend you try an F8x M3/M4 with a modified exhaust before you come to your final conclusions...

I hope this was helpful...

[kgroschi]

Originally Posted by myzmak

No slaughtering. You have subjective opinions that are different from other people's. That's just life

Where you are at least partly wrong is in explaining why they went turbo. You said



It wasn't done to make it more mass market. It was because, like all but the small manufacturers, BMW had to meet certain fleet efficiency requirements in both Europe and USA or face major fines, which would have been very stupid business. The only way to keep performance and get efficiency in a car at this price point is turbo. It's the modern world.

As for longing for what once was (whether in M or Lambo or whatever) the past is the past. A Biplane was a more authentic and natural flying experience than a modern plane but which would I rather fly in? Don't get too caught up in nostalgia or you'll miss what is happening.

Haha ok. About the turbo reason... I might have put it wrong. I wrote that at 1:30 am lol. Of course it's for efficiency and not to mass sell a car.

But honestly, I used to do professional go kart racing when I was a kid, and always tested fast cars. If this is the future then I probably will be caught up in the past and be a future classic car owner lol. I want to be engaged when driving a sports car...

[kgroschi]

Originally Posted by jeremyr4

For what it's worth, I felt the EXACT same way when I first made the switch from my E46 M3 to E93 M3 (they were both convertibles). I actually owned 4 different E46 M3s so I'm also an M fan Anyhow, I was VERY upset by how much I disliked the E93 M3 at first. The lack of sound/involvement made me convinced that M lost its rawness and I was shocked at first. BUT, for the first time, I decided to modify the exhaust on my E93 M3 (I went with an OEM Exhaust Mod, which is ironically essentially what BMW did with the F8x M3 in Sport/Sport+ mode) and I literally went from major disappointment to thrilled. Did I still miss the steering and road feel of my E46 - YES. But did the visceral V8 make up for it - YES.

That's why I'm currently reading this thread and the M Performance Exhaust thread, among others. I learned that modifying the exhaust on these cars can make it MUCH more appealing for us true hardcore M fans. I don't love the fact that it will probably be necessary to modify the exhaust on the F8x series for me (in all fairness I haven't driven or heard one in-person yet) but I have already learned that it can turn my M hate into M bliss

Anyhow, that's some food for thought for you. Aside from the visceral help you'll receive from an exhaust mod, we're not going back to the good old days where you feel your M car run over a dime and where you were truly connected to the road to the degree of a GT3 (the GT3 is still my dream car - amazing car). So it will probably take you a while to get over the good old days but I, for one, would recommend you try an F8x M3/M4 with a modified exhaust before you come to your final conclusions...

I hope this was helpful...

+1 that. That's the goal for the moment. I wanna hear the modified exhausts... mostly because it did wonders on the new M5/M6, which sounds incredible with an RPI GTM exhaust. The lack of feel I can accept in an M5, even I loved my E60 M5 to death... literally

But I'm glad you also felt the cars are softening up. It's just turbo is just too much for me to handle, even they are the best turbo charged engines on the market.

I remember the M3 CSL was an absolute incredible machine... but honestly for me, the E9x was my favorite M series, even it had it's disadvantages.

[kgroschi]

Originally Posted by consolidated

What publications do you write for? If you come here calling yourself a journalist then I believe it's fair to be asked and disclose.

Isn't comparing an RS, much less a 4.0 to a M3 disingenuous and uninsightful? They sell in hugely different numbers with very different goals. I own one, and race a Boxster and absolutely love this new M car for what it is. Or I could come here and say your 4.0 is a sloppy piece of overweight pose-mobile compared to driving a Lotus Seven, F40 or $15K Formula Ford...see how that works? Not very interesting or thoughtful to me.

Yes it's fair to ask, but I can't disclose my full identity in forums. At this point, I can only say that I am testing for a German Design magazine.

I never meant to really compare a GT3 to the M3/M4! Of course that wouldn't be fair! I just thought I'd mention it. However, I just had the Boxster GTS while I tested the M4. Sadly I barely wanted to drive the M4. Now we can debate if it's fair to compare these two cars, probably it isn't, but a GTS would be MY alternative for an M4. In the M4 class there is no other car I would chose, AMG is pretty bad imo, and the RS5 is terribly old and also not that exciting even it has a N/A V8. It's getting harder and harder to find a sub $100k car that's still raw and fun.

[NorCal f80]

Originally Posted by e92proper

Still sounds terrible. More so now between shifts! What is that blop blop? Ugh

Sounds like little farts.

[Maz335i]

Originally Posted by ROBD314

Why don't you guys take the "F8X sounds horrible and is not emotional" conversation to one of the numerous "F8X sounds horrible and is not emotional" threads....This is for people who like the car and are interested in enhancing the sound with an Eisenmann system

^ THIS!

[khanyam4]

Originally Posted by kgroschi

the E9x was my favorite M series, even it had it's disadvantages.

I guess the sound of F8x m series is the disadvantage, everthing else F8x advantage.