ESS F8X M3/M4 Stage 1 Performance Tune Dyno

[kitw]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

The only guys doing it are Ferrari with their V8 Turbo engine (in the California T and soon in 458), by limiting boost at low rpm/gearing to allow for an N/A feel. You can see that in their engine specs (check their max power RPM).

Type: direct-injection 90° V8
Total displacement: 3,855 cc
Maximum power*: 412 kW (560 cv) at 7500 rpm
Maximum torque*: 755 Nm (77 kgm) at 4750 rpm

To be fair, the JB4 now has the ability to do this as well.

(sorry to thread crap, I think the ESS piggyback is pretty interesting - will be interested to know if it's an off the shelf part similar to what others are using or custom hardware.)

[Glowin]

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

Voiding Warranty vs. Ability to Tune

It's not anything new that a manufacturer would deny warranty coverage if it was discovered that the owner made unauthorized modifications that are directly related to the warranty claim.

Then I don't get your point... Since piggys are available for both BMW and Audi platforms. Are you saying those other manufacturers didn't lock down their ECU's so tuners could get into them and flash them, whereas BMW has made it really hard to do so?

[Newguy123]

This and jb4 are reasonably priced does this Have fuel control, CANbus, EWG control, logging, map switching, boost limiting for launches, or E85 support? Bc the JB4 does

[sales@ESSTuning]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Yes. And this is SUPER cool


Roman, is there a possibility of tuning this Stage 1 to have less midrange power to it looks more like a S65 curve?

Sure we can just adjust the boost where needed.

Originally Posted by Newguy123

This and jb4 are reasonably priced does this Have fuel control, CANbus, EWG control, logging, map switching, boost limiting for launches, or E85 support? Bc the JB4 does

This is a product that is designed with very good stable hardware, very good processing power and the ability to access Cam, MAP and MAF data without cutting or splicing into the factory wiring. We have no interest in data logging or code reading with this product because the calibrations we set are spot on as you can see in the dynos and the unit does not throw faults. We also have no interest in requiring customers to cut into factory wiring or attempt to mess with the factory Can bus with this product. If your looking for a unit you need to mess around with or feel the need to tinker with all the time this is not the product for you. This is a tuning option for those that want to add pre-set safe, dependable power to the car and not have to think about it again after it is installed

[DieGrüneHölle]

So the ESS piggyback does not have CANbus access. It is just like the JB4 in stage 1 form, which also doesn't have to splice wires. It you want CANbus access, fuel control, EWG control, logging, map switching, boost limiting for launches, E85 support, etc., then JB4 offers a stage 2 (which does require a wire tap for CAN wire).

Turner Motorsports and Vivid Racing now have a similar piggy to the ESS. You will see more of these analog only boxes from other companies at various prices.

5 different piggybacks and counting. Don't believe the hype about certain companies cracking S55 ecu, it is BS.

[Newguy123]

Sounds like a good product I'm pretty sure the "wire tap" on S55 jb4 isn't splicing the harness it's using the factory CANbus wires that you unwrap and twist in then wrap back up.

[sales@ESSTuning]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

So the ESS piggyback does not have CANbus access. It is just like the JB4 in stage 1 form, which also doesn't have to splice wires. It you want CANbus access, fuel control, EWG control, logging, map switching, boost limiting for launches, E85 support, etc., then JB4 offers a stage 2 (which does require a wire tap for CAN wire).

Turner Motorsports and Vivid Racing now have a similar piggy to the ESS. You will see more of these analog only boxes from other companies at various prices.

5 different piggybacks and counting. Don't believe the hype about certain companies cracking S55 ecu, it is BS.

Our unit can Access Cam and MAF data without splicing into the CAN bus wires which is a big deal for customers who are not comfortable doing so. Without Cam data you cannot scale boost or make any adjustments in the controller based off RPM. MAF access is also a big plus when running a system like this. The only way to get this data for the controller is to have direct plug in connections to these sensors like we do or splice into the CAN bus wiring. Even when you get access to the CAN bus im not sure the controller has access to MAF data.

[TMR]

Does this unit have the ability for multiple maps?

[m3rxn]

Great numbers and solid looking hardware.

[kitw]

Originally Posted by Roman@ESS

Our unit can Access Cam and MAF data without splicing into the CAN bus wires which is a big deal for customers who are not comfortable doing so. Without Cam data you cannot scale boost or make any adjustments in the controller based off RPM. MAF access is also a big plus when running a system like this. The only way to get this data for the controller is to have direct plug in connections to these sensors like we do or splice into the CAN bus wiring. Even when you get access to the CAN bus im not sure the controller has access to MAF data.

Roman, I don't mean to crap on your thread (again) just wanted to clear up some misconceptions.

the JB4 installs exactly the way your piggyback does, for stage 1. Stage 2 and above use the CANbus splices (which I hate!) to do some more interesting things - For example, it can clear codes associated with Downpipes for those interested in doing so - I assume the ESS won't do that, without CANbus integration?

Not saying one is better than the other, I'll probably end up trying both.

[Lotus99]

Originally Posted by Newguy123

Sounds like a good product I'm pretty sure the "wire tap" on S55 jb4 isn't splicing the harness it's using the factory CANbus wires that you unwrap and twist in then wrap back up.

Posi Tap connections are used, so technically, a little hole is made in the Can wire.

[Reid]

Originally Posted by Meanie

Here is a photo I got from Roman

It looks like a box made by DTE.

[Reid]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Turner Motorsports and Vivid Racing now have a similar piggy to the TMC Tuning Box.

FTFY.

[biglare]

Hmmm...

[8600RPM]

Why are some guys coming onto Roman's thread (ESS rep) and crapping on his product. Again as many mention, there are now 5 options, so just go grab another option. Some people trust in ESS, they have enjoyed their past products, customer support or whatever else draws them to this feature. I am one who in no way will be messing with wires so its a non-issue for me and others. I actually would like if we can let ESS and any other tuner have their thread without defending it in regards to why its not more like another tuner.

Now questions and information about their tune is a must and fair game. I am one who also will take the tuner box who can provide an naturally aspirated-like tune so if ESS can provide that. I appreciate Roman and ESS were heavily involved in e92 m3 tuning and to me I trust their feel of how someone like myself who wants a feel closer to the power delivery of the e92 m3 was.

People seem to be missing the point with the progressive boost idea. Ferrari or anyone else can always add more boost to the middle range. There is always more to be had. As I am sure you have seen life, bigger is not always better. It is nice on a dyno or if you are a certain type of driver. However a track oriented person or someone who wants the most usable power at the ground, simply prefers a more linear power delivery where you can actually get the power to the ground without spinning the crap out of the tires. If we had a 911 turbo suspension and engine over the rear tires than fine, bring on the mid-range. However a RWD platform, front engine, I think we more than Ferrari frankly need a more linear power delivery to have the absolute most out of driving this thing.

If ESS could put out a curve that resembles a bit more linear power delivery, it is a win for them as clearly there is a demand.

If I had the know, simply ramping up boost at 4250-4400k and continue ramping up to peak at 7k and then have it flat to 7500k (or tapering off a bit at 7500) Give or take, would make a huge population of guys on here happy and would flock to the product in my view.

Again lets focus on the quality of ESS and how they have been a leading reliable tuner that many on here appreciate without comparing to JB4 or other tuners

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

If ESS could put out a curve that resembles a bit more linear power delivery, it is a win for them as clearly there is a demand.

If I had the know, simply ramping up boost at 4250-4400k and continue ramping up to peak at 7k and then have it flat to 7500k (or tapering off a bit at 7500) Give or take, would make a huge population of guys on here happy and would flock to the product in my view.

BMS have implemented exactly what you want in their recent firmware update.

See #7 http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1046737


Edit: Just saw you responded in that thread.

[Slimjim8201]

Originally Posted by Tony007

I also would prefer a tune profile that begins adding power from about 5k on up.

Looking at the dyno results, they did add power from 5K up. Would you prefer a tune that ONLY adds more boost from 5K onwards? You would have an engine with a more linear torque delivery and a car that is not any faster than stock in normal driving. Why not tune the whole engine range?

[Tony007]

Originally Posted by Slimjim8201

Looking at the dyno results, they did add power from 5K up. Would you prefer a tune that ONLY adds more boost from 5K onwards? You would have an engine with a more linear torque delivery and a car that is not any faster than stock in normal driving. Why not tune the whole engine range?

Because on the street the car wearing 275's is already at the traction limits in first and second gear and it does not require any additional TQ less than 5k.

During full throttle acceleration run the car is only less than 5k just once, and that is in 1'st gear only. The rest of the run is all above 5k. That's where the car will accept additional power with no compromise.

And if the additional power could be applied by gear that would be even better.

[sales@ESSTuning]

Originally Posted by Tony007

Because on the street the car wearing 275's is already at the traction limits in first and second gear and it does not require any additional TQ less than 5k.

During full throttle acceleration run the car is only less than 5k just once, and that is in 1'st gear only. The rest of the run is all above 5k. That's where the car will accept additional power with no compromise.

And if the additional power could be applied by gear that would be even better.

We can lower the boost below 5k RPM which would provide a more linear power curve at the expense of power for those that would prefer it. We will play with some calibrations over the next few days and see what the curves look like.

The way it is now I think is a good balance for nice low end power and a balanced top end but I agree that more TQ in the 3-5k range is really overkill on the street.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Roman@ESS

We can lower the boost below 5k RPM which would provide a more linear power curve at the expense of power for those that would prefer it. We will play with some calibrations over the next few days and see what the curves look like.

The way it is now I think is a good balance for nice low end power and a balanced top end but I agree that more TQ in the 3-5k range is really overkill on the street.

If you can, post what a 'NA tune' would look like please!

[8600RPM]

Originally Posted by Slimjim8201

Looking at the dyno results, they did add power from 5K up. Would you prefer a tune that ONLY adds more boost from 5K onwards? You would have an engine with a more linear torque delivery and a car that is not any faster than stock in normal driving. Why not tune the whole engine range?

I guess it depends on the person. I drove my e92 m3 rarely with the revs below 5k and loved having fun revving it out to 7500-8k and not letting it drop below 5-6k unless I was cruising or just going slowly and in that case I don't need more than stock power by any means. My daily driving involves little time below 5500 rpm if I am having fun. If I am just cruising as I just said I don't need more torque in 7th gear than stock.

Given you cant put power down, unless you want a dyno king, more torque and power below 5k is useless. A swell of power emerging after 5k rpms to 7500 rpms would be almost 100 percent usable power to the ground atleast in 2nd gear.

Maybe I am wrong but I believe a more "NA-like" tune would put down better numbers in virtually any scenario except in-gear accelerations in high gears at high speed which to me is useless with a dct as downshifting is so easy.

Different strokes for different folks. Its nice the turbos in this motor seem to provide a smooth enough power delivery to offer both low end torque monster, or a more linear curve with the right tuning.

I will be all over jb4 or ess if they do a almost stock curve up to 5500 and then add progressive boost to 7500 rpms. Even a nice 30whp bump in a progressive fashion would really let this thing rip at WOT from 6k-7500k and provide a totally different driving experience.

if you read details about the new Ferrari turbo cars, the CEO of Ferrari says we are at the end of the "numbers" game and in terms of road course times, quarter mile and all measures, objectively we are nearing the end of the arms race. He said the next step is to build in more intangibles such as feel, power delivery, emotion etc. All which to me don't get included in a dyno graph or lap times.

However I do believe even lap times and drag race measures in this car in addition to the emotional experience would only improve with a progressive, more linear tune.

Almost everyone jumped on me initially and now it seems two tuners are doing this and people are benefiting. Pleased!

[Newguy123]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

Why are some guys coming onto Roman's thread (ESS rep) and crapping on his product. Again as many mention, there are now 5 options, so just go grab another option. Some people trust in ESS, they have enjoyed their past products, customer support or whatever else draws them to this feature. I am one who in no way will be messing with wires so its a non-issue for me and others. I actually would like if we can let ESS and any other tuner have their thread without defending it in regards to why its not more like another tuner.

Now questions and information about their tune is a must and fair game. I am one who also will take the tuner box who can provide an naturally aspirated-like tune so if ESS can provide that. I appreciate Roman and ESS were heavily involved in e92 m3 tuning and to me I trust their feel of how someone like myself who wants a feel closer to the power delivery of the e92 m3 was.

People seem to be missing the point with the progressive boost idea. Ferrari or anyone else can always add more boost to the middle range. There is always more to be had. As I am sure you have seen life, bigger is not always better. It is nice on a dyno or if you are a certain type of driver. However a track oriented person or someone who wants the most usable power at the ground, simply prefers a more linear power delivery where you can actually get the power to the ground without spinning the crap out of the tires. If we had a 911 turbo suspension and engine over the rear tires than fine, bring on the mid-range. However a RWD platform, front engine, I think we more than Ferrari frankly need a more linear power delivery to have the absolute most out of driving this thing.

If ESS could put out a curve that resembles a bit more linear power delivery, it is a win for them as clearly there is a demand.

If I had the know, simply ramping up boost at 4250-4400k and continue ramping up to peak at 7k and then have it flat to 7500k (or tapering off a bit at 7500) Give or take, would make a huge population of guys on here happy and would flock to the product in my view.

Again lets focus on the quality of ESS and how they have been a leading reliable tuner that many on here appreciate without comparing to JB4 or other tuners

no ones "crapping" on their thread. nothing wrong with comparing features and functionality of silimar products on the market. isnt that what forums are for???