Flexfuel kit

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by gpennell0812

Sticking with BM3 stage 1 is my plan at this point. Just wanting to improve the performance a little more than the ACN 91 gas here in CA. Definitely have no plans of running full E85. I did recently see another post about running BM3 stage 2 but dialing back the torque. I don't really know how that differs from the regular BM3 Stage 1.

I'm running the stage 1 ACN 91 tune and when I add 2 gallons of e85, the car runs smoother and pulls a bit harder. Try that out. I want to go full FF but my car is a 2015 and once I have to start smogging the car, I'm worried about having to uninstall everything just to do that.

[gpennell0812]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

I'm running the stage 1 ACN 91 tune and when I add 2 gallons of e85, the car runs smoother and pulls a bit harder. Try that out. I want to go full FF but my car is a 2015 and once I have to start smogging the car, I'm worried about having to uninstall everything just to do that.

What set up are you using? Did you end up going with the Bend Cal?

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by gpennell0812

What set up are you using? Did you end up going with the Bend Cal?

No setup. It’s just adding a couple of gallons of e85 to effectively bring up the octane to 93/95.

[gpennell0812]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

No setup. It’s just adding a couple of gallons of e85 to effectively bring up the octane to 93/95.

So you're stock besides CBC, BM3, and charge pipes?

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by gpennell0812

So you're stock besides CBC, BM3, and charge pipes?

Yes, well besides a car back exhaust. Engine wise

[gpennell0812]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

Yes, well besides a car back exhaust. Engine wise

Okay, I still have a lot to learn. I had no idea it was okay to add flex fuel without a flex fuel kit. Is knowing the concentration of the flex fuel mix the only purpose of the Bend Calibration kit? What is the difference between the Benc Calibration kit and the Fuel It Flex Fuel kit?

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by gpennell0812

Okay, I still have a lot to learn. I had no idea it was okay to add flex fuel without a flex fuel kit. Is knowing the concentration of the flex fuel mix the only purpose of the Bend Calibration kit? What is the difference between the Benc Calibration kit and the Fuel It Flex Fuel kit?

I think you’re confused. You’re not adding “flex fuel” to the car when adding e85.

What you are doing is adding a bit of e85 to effectively bring up the octane of the gas. You’re not really making your car a flex fuel car, but the DME is compensating a bit for the added e85. More than a couple of gallons, then your car Will be unhappy. Hmm to make it really simple, think of lemonade that already has sugar in it but it’s not as sweet as you want. You then add a bit of honey to sweeten the lemonade, but adding too much will make it a honey lemonade which is not tasty. Haha weird analogy, I know.

Try and read up on similar posts on e85 mixes to this engine. Just type “e85 f80” on Google and you’ll be some prior posts on this. You’ll probably see some of my posts as well!

Good luck.

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by gpennell0812

Okay, I still have a lot to learn. I had no idea it was okay to add flex fuel without a flex fuel kit. Is knowing the concentration of the flex fuel mix the only purpose of the Bend Calibration kit? What is the difference between the Benc Calibration kit and the Fuel It Flex Fuel kit?

Btw those are all just kits to make your car flex fuel capable. Your best option is to contact each vendor first and ask.

[gpennell0812]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

I think you’re confused. You’re not adding “flex fuel” to the car when adding e85.

What you are doing is adding a bit of e85 to effectively bring up the octane of the gas. You’re not really making your car a flex fuel car, but the DME is compensating a bit for the added e85. More than a couple of gallons, then your car Will be unhappy. Hmm to make it really simple, think of lemonade that already has sugar in it but it’s not as sweet as you want. You then add a bit of honey to sweeten the lemonade, but adding too much will make it a honey lemonade which is not tasty. Haha weird analogy, I know.

Try and read up on similar posts on e85 mixes to this engine. Just type “e85 f80” on Google and you’ll be some prior posts on this. You’ll probably see some of my posts as well!

Good luck.

I didn't know that E85 was simply increasing the octane of the gas. Thank you for the analogy. I do understand about the flex fuel vs ethanol. I guess I should have replaced the words flex fuel in my last post with E85. I didn't think it was a good idea to put any E85 in the gas tank without a flex fuel kit. So is there any benefit to the flex fuel kits like Bend Calibration or Fuel It other than being more precise with your gas to E85 ratio?

[gpennell0812]

And I promise I did try searching the forum without any major success. But I was searching more along the lines of 'flex fuel kit.'

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by gpennell0812

I didn't know that E85 was simply increasing the octane of the gas. Thank you for the analogy. I do understand about the flex fuel vs ethanol. I guess I should have replaced the words flex fuel in my last post with E85. I didn't think it was a good idea to put any E85 in the gas tank without a flex fuel kit. So is there any benefit to the flex fuel kits like Bend Calibration or Fuel It other than being more precise with your gas to E85 ratio?

Most (all?) pump gas in California already has 10% ethanol. Let's call it E10 for 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline. So, yes, it is safe to run a bit of ethanol in your car - you've been doing it forever since CA gas has had 10% ethanol in all of the gas it sells for decades.

When you add a couple of gallons of E85 (which has approximately 85% ethanol) to a full tank of premium unleaded (E10), you basically raise the ethanol content by a few percent - say up to E15 or E20. A completely stock F8x or one with a stage 1 or stage 2 tune will run totally fine with a couple of gallons of E85 mixed to a full tank of unleaded 91 octane gas. In fact, as you've experienced, it will run smoother because the octane is bumped up a bit.

As you increase the percentage of E85 you mix with normal premium unleaded gasoline in the tank, the stock maps and the stage 1 and stage 2 maps are not programmed to take advantage of the higher octane provided so it does not run as well. There are also issues that come into play like the car needs to pump significantly more ethanol into the engine than normal gasoline. This is why cars running E85 or a mix of gas and E85 are less efficient and also why the stock fueling system can't handle running pure E85 - because it cannot pump and inject enough E85 into the engine to run properly. So, people mix the E85 with normal premium gasoline to not overtax the stock fuel pumps and injectors.

If you want to run anything more than just a couple of gallons of E85 mixed with a full tank of premium unleaded, you will need a tune specific to the percentage of E85 you're running. The flex fuel kit has a sensor that can detect the percentage of ethanol in your gas tank and, with the right tune, will optimize the maps of the ECU according to how much or how little ethanol you are running. It is much more convenient as you don't have to worry about reaching a specific percentage of ethanol, which gets complicated and hard to do if you're filling up a tank that's half full and trying to mix in a certain percentage of E85 with normal gasoline and you don't know how many total gallons you need to pump to fill up the tank.

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

Most (all?) pump gas in California already has 10% ethanol. Let's call it E10 for 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline. So, yes, it is safe to run a bit of ethanol in your car - you've been doing it forever since CA gas has had 10% ethanol in all of the gas it sells for decades.

When you add a couple of gallons of E85 (which has approximately 85% ethanol) to a full tank of premium unleaded (E10), you basically raise the ethanol content by a few percent - say up to E15 or E20. A completely stock F8x or one with a stage 1 or stage 2 tune will run totally fine with a couple of gallons of E85 mixed to a full tank of unleaded 91 octane gas. In fact, as you've experienced, it will run smoother because the octane is bumped up a bit.

As you increase the percentage of E85 you mix with normal premium unleaded gasoline in the tank, the stock maps and the stage 1 and stage 2 maps are not programmed to take advantage of the higher octane provided so it does not run as well. There are also issues that come into play like the car needs to pump significantly more ethanol into the engine than normal gasoline. This is why cars running E85 or a mix of gas and E85 are less efficient and also why the stock fueling system can't handle running pure E85 - because it cannot pump and inject enough E85 into the engine to run properly. So, people mix the E85 with normal premium gasoline to not overtax the stock fuel pumps and injectors.

If you want to run anything more than just a couple of gallons of E85 mixed with a full tank of premium unleaded, you will need a tune specific to the percentage of E85 you're running. The flex fuel kit has a sensor that can detect the percentage of ethanol in your gas tank and, with the right tune, will optimize the maps of the ECU according to how much or how little ethanol you are running. It is much more convenient as you don't have to worry about reaching a specific percentage of ethanol, which gets complicated and hard to do if you're filling up a tank that's half full and trying to mix in a certain percentage of E85 with normal gasoline and you don't know how many total gallons you need to pump to fill up the tank.

Couldn’t have said it better myself!

Great post!

[gpennell0812]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

Most (all?) pump gas in California already has 10% ethanol. Let's call it E10 for 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline. So, yes, it is safe to run a bit of ethanol in your car - you've been doing it forever since CA gas has had 10% ethanol in all of the gas it sells for decades.

When you add a couple of gallons of E85 (which has approximately 85% ethanol) to a full tank of premium unleaded (E10), you basically raise the ethanol content by a few percent - say up to E15 or E20. A completely stock F8x or one with a stage 1 or stage 2 tune will run totally fine with a couple of gallons of E85 mixed to a full tank of unleaded 91 octane gas. In fact, as you've experienced, it will run smoother because the octane is bumped up a bit.

As you increase the percentage of E85 you mix with normal premium unleaded gasoline in the tank, the stock maps and the stage 1 and stage 2 maps are not programmed to take advantage of the higher octane provided so it does not run as well. There are also issues that come into play like the car needs to pump significantly more ethanol into the engine than normal gasoline. This is why cars running E85 or a mix of gas and E85 are less efficient and also why the stock fueling system can't handle running pure E85 - because it cannot pump and inject enough E85 into the engine to run properly. So, people mix the E85 with normal premium gasoline to not overtax the stock fuel pumps and injectors.

If you want to run anything more than just a couple of gallons of E85 mixed with a full tank of premium unleaded, you will need a tune specific to the percentage of E85 you're running. The flex fuel kit has a sensor that can detect the percentage of ethanol in your gas tank and, with the right tune, will optimize the maps of the ECU according to how much or how little ethanol you are running. It is much more convenient as you don't have to worry about reaching a specific percentage of ethanol, which gets complicated and hard to do if you're filling up a tank that's half full and trying to mix in a certain percentage of E85 with normal gasoline and you don't know how many total gallons you need to pump to fill up the tank.

Thank you, that helps a lot! If I start running a higher percentage of E85, I'll be switching to the BM3 Stage 1 flex fuel map. To address the increased load on the fuel system, would a high pressure fuel pump and larger injectors be required? What's the point of the new fuel lines included with some of the flex fuel kits?

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by gpennell0812

Thank you, that helps a lot! If I start running a higher percentage of E85, I'll be switching to the BM3 Stage 1 flex fuel map. To address the increased load on the fuel system, would a high pressure fuel pump and larger injectors be required? What's the point of the new fuel lines included with some of the flex fuel kits?

No upgraded hpfp or injectors required. The S55 has an overbuilt fueling system that can handle full E85 due to having dual hpfps on stock turbo power.

The upgraded fuel lines are not required either. You'll have a tougher time with flex fuel kits if you have aftermarket fuel lines since the bend calibration kit is designed for stock fuel lines. Once you start throwing in different types of AN fittings, the install will be a pain.

You'll want to monitor your short term fuel trims in bootmod3 when doing an E85 mix (it should not deviate more than 5% from 1.0 (eg 1.05). Do NOT over fill with E85. Use the exact amount that is calculated and trust the math. Otherwise you'll run lean and get mixture codes and a check engine light.

You might also want to spend the $150 and get new coil packs while you are changing out spark plugs to eliminate ignition issues with regard to troubleshooting any problems.

[gpennell0812]

If the fuel system is already better than it needs to be, what is the strain referred to in the file system with E85?

[TideMD]

Originally Posted by gpennell0812

If the fuel system is already better than it needs to be, what is the strain referred to in the file system with E85?

Better than it needs to be for the OEM recommended/designed use of premium fuel with ~10% or less of ethanol.

Going to E85 means you get higher octane, allowing more boost and timing advance.
However - as with all things - it comes at a price. The "energy density" of E85 is less than regular gasoline. Therefore, an increasingly greater overall volume of fuel is needed at any given moment when comparing similar performance
of standard gasoline against increasing vol% of E85.

tl:dr - the strain comes in the pump's inability to meet necessary volume demands when flowing E85

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

Hmm to make it really simple, think of lemonade that already has sugar in it but it’s not as sweet as you want. You then add a bit of honey to sweeten the lemonade, but adding too much will make it a honey lemonade which is not tasty.

Wait… why wouldn’t I just add more sugar to it to sweeten it? Why honey? Can I use Stevia instead?
Have we tried honey lemonade? I know my cough drops are honey citrus which is really just honey lemonade?
Wait… what were we talking about again?

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by gpennell0812

If the fuel system is already better than it needs to be, what is the strain referred to in the file system with E85?

As with tuning your car, you will be stressing the all components to their max. Turbos, fueling, ignition, cooling, etc.

[stondM3]

I installed the Bend Calibration fuel sensor this weekend. Has anyone hooked up the Zeitronix ECA-2 to their car's FEM/Canbus? This is the part that makes me nervous and I can't find a good walk-through for the F80

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by stondM3

I installed the Bend Calibration fuel sensor this weekend. Has anyone hooked up the Zeitronix ECA-2 to their car's FEM/Canbus? This is the part that makes me nervous and I can't find a good walk-through for the F80

Bend Calibration has a guide. Tap into passenger footwell module.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by stondM3

I installed the Bend Calibration fuel sensor this weekend. Has anyone hooked up the Zeitronix ECA-2 to their car's FEM/Canbus? This is the part that makes me nervous and I can't find a good walk-through for the F80

Here you go

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by stondM3

I installed the Bend Calibration fuel sensor this weekend. Has anyone hooked up the Zeitronix ECA-2 to their car's FEM/Canbus? This is the part that makes me nervous and I can't find a good walk-through for the F80

There is also a guy with an M2 (with S55 engine IIRC so the install is essentially identical to the F80/F82) that installed the Bend Cal kit and posted a video about it. Do a search for it as it should help you. One challenge, among others, is that the wire harness will need to be extended in order to get to the passenger side footwell. Although, Bend Cal was supposedly looking at offering an extended length harness - I don't know if they have done that yet though.

FWIW, there is a PT-CAN tap point that I found in the drivers side footwell based on looking at some wire diagrams, which would not require a harness extension. But I have been unable to find a suitable fire wall penetration point on the drivers side, at least not for 6MT cars…