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      06-20-2021, 08:49 PM   #1
sly1types
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Top Mount Intercooler and heat exchanger? Which one are you running and does it help?

Hey guys i have been looking into topmount intercoolers and heat exchangers. I see a lot of guys were going to CSF b/c their name but it seems their double pass design builds some pressure so the dyno numbers look bad. I am looking for real world road course results.

I'm getting 130-140 IATS after a 20 or 25 min session is 90 deg heat. I am going to try going to water wetter and see if that helps some.

What have your results been? with what setup and what tune?

Right now i'm thinking of doing the Wagner top mount and maybe their front and side heat exchangers, but its the most $$ at $4k. For this kind of money it has to work very well. It looks like a single pass, doesn't build pressure and has a lot larger core on the topmount and heatexhangers including the side one.
https://www.wagner-tuning.com/produc...24-logo-1.html

https://www.wagner-tuning.com/produc...400001003.html

Or maybe go to Wagner topmount and the CSF front only heat exchanger? This is what i'm leaning towards as it would about $2700
https://csfrace.com/bmw-f8x-m3-m4-co...#heatexchanger

Or maybe do the Mishimoto topmount and their front only heat exchanger.
https://www.mishimoto.com/shop-make-...-bmw-f80-m3-m4
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      06-23-2021, 11:50 AM   #2
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Which sensor are you reading?

The power train cooling on the F8x is a work of art but I'm assuming that it may not be adequate for tuned cars.
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      06-23-2021, 02:06 PM   #3
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Quote:
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Which sensor are you reading?

The power train cooling on the F8x is a work of art but I'm assuming that it may not be adequate for tuned cars.
The intake air temp on the BM3 logs, I believe it's right above the Jpipe on the charge cooler.
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      06-23-2021, 02:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
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The intake air temp on the BM3 logs, I believe it's right above the Jpipe on the charge cooler.
Got it, I'm already forgetting things about the car. I had like 3 intake temp sensors on the Z06.

To be honest 130-140F on a 25 minute session in heat is pretty damn good for temps in charge. You're still a good 20 degrees off from setting off a CEL (I think, its like 160F).

I'd only upgrade if it's actually causing a problem. Otherwise, enjoy.
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      06-23-2021, 03:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sly1types View Post
The intake air temp on the BM3 logs, I believe it's right above the Jpipe on the charge cooler.
Got it, I'm already forgetting things about the car. I had like 3 intake temp sensors on the Z06.

To be honest 130-140F on a 25 minute session in heat is pretty damn good for temps in charge. You're still a good 20 degrees off from setting off a CEL (I think, its like 160F).

I'd only upgrade if it's actually causing a problem. Otherwise, enjoy.
I agree those arnt bad and I'm not getting a limp mode. But if I can get a legit 15+ IAT drop then I could see it being worth it. This was only on 93oct, next I will be going with about E50 without adding boost, F80 Paul was saying that will also help.

If I have to I will do 50/50 water meth adder. I really want about 550wheel at the end of a session.
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      06-23-2021, 04:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sly1types View Post
I agree those arnt bad and I'm not getting a limp mode. But if I can get a legit 15+ IAT drop then I could see it being worth it. This was only on 93oct, next I will be going with about E50 without adding boost, F80 Paul was saying that will also help.

If I have to I will do 50/50 water meth adder. I really want about 550wheel at the end of a session.
I don't think 15F is worth the upgrade, especially at that price. Pretty sure if you take your engine cover off you'll get 10F lower temps.

Do you have fuel trim and timing logs for that session? I don't think you're losing as much as it may feel on the F8X stock cooling.
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      06-23-2021, 04:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYG View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sly1types View Post
I agree those arnt bad and I'm not getting a limp mode. But if I can get a legit 15+ IAT drop then I could see it being worth it. This was only on 93oct, next I will be going with about E50 without adding boost, F80 Paul was saying that will also help.

If I have to I will do 50/50 water meth adder. I really want about 550wheel at the end of a session.
I don't think 15F is worth the upgrade, especially at that price. Pretty sure if you take your engine cover off you'll get 10F lower temps.

Do you have fuel trim and timing logs for that session? I don't think you're losing as much as it may feel on the F8X stock cooling.
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60ba...90c60748a0b07a

Here is a log, it pulls almost all the timing out by the end of the session. Paul did like 4 revisions for me on Friday.

My guess this is 450-460 wheel Hp. Hopefully soon I will dyno slot 1 and 2 with 9%E all the way up to E60. Slot 1 is the road course.
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      06-23-2021, 05:25 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sly1types View Post
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60ba...90c60748a0b07a

Here is a log, it pulls almost all the timing out by the end of the session. Paul did like 4 revisions for me on Friday.

My guess this is 450-460 wheel Hp. Hopefully soon I will dyno slot 1 and 2 with 9%E all the way up to E60. Slot 1 is the road course.
Whoever is tuning your car probably knows A WHOLE lot more than me but your engine looks healthy af from those logs.

At Lambda = 12 and max. boost, you're advanced. You pull minimal timing between gear changes when you're still in boost. It looks consistent throughout the entire session.

Boost pressures are consistent, IAT is pretty stable too.

Your short term trims are always converging at 1 which is weird but that's probably BM3 working and it probably uses a different label.
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      06-24-2021, 07:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYG View Post
Whoever is tuning your car probably knows A WHOLE lot more than me but your engine looks healthy af from those logs.

At Lambda = 12 and max. boost, you're advanced. You pull minimal timing between gear changes when you're still in boost. It looks consistent throughout the entire session.

Boost pressures are consistent, IAT is pretty stable too.

Your short term trims are always converging at 1 which is weird but that's probably BM3 working and it probably uses a different label.
Its Paul Johnson F80Paul, he defiantly knows his stuff, he also said he worked to keep the EGTs low. I have some logs from the mornings where it starts out and keeps a lot more timing. Right now I'm only putting about 3 cars on a E92M3 down the front straight, its 50-125mph, but in the morning i can hit 129-131mph.

I was just hoping someone with full Wagner setup would chime in and say it was a 20deg reductionbut by the amount of people that have looked at this thread and not chimed in i think these are more of a vanity mod.
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      06-24-2021, 08:02 PM   #10
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Sly,
I run the Wagner TMIC but a stock FMIC. I did not test against my stock TMIC. My intakes are stock boxes with BMC. During runs my IAT drops 15F and recover to start temps afterwards. I'm not sure if that's all Ram Air effect or if the TMIC helps any.

I did notice that the Wagner is so big it's hard to heat it up. After a few drag passes, or a bunch of highway playing, it stays cool to the touch on hot days. Only after 5-6 repeated dragstrip runs did it feel warm to my hand (and silicone CPs were Hot).
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      07-01-2021, 01:23 PM   #11
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As far as I'm concerned, the only TMIC that does something is the 4k fancy Bimmerworld one.
If I ever have to upgrade mine, that's what I'll get. Until then it's staying stock.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Intake-F...hoCljQQAvD_BwE
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