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      02-12-2015, 01:02 PM   #45
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Dont even discuss jerky tranny if you never owned smg . Just be thankful its dct lol. God i miss those e60 m5 days..
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      02-12-2015, 01:35 PM   #46
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I actually liked SMG more than DCT. it really felt like a manual transmission with a very dumb computer running the clutch. even had to throttle blip it for better rev matching. the "automatic" mode was hilarious. felt like i was passenger riding in drivers seat.

As far as Dual Clutch units go the latest M6/5/4/3 units are about the smoothest I have felt outside of PDK and they still have the dumb buttons, optional paddles, and reversed up/down shifts which really is annoying.

launch this car hard or not at all. if you are on sport plus throttle response and give pressure, ease off, and back on then it goes into this limbo throttle death mode where it cuts in and out. just like with the manual. accelerate like you mean it or be easy on it and if its being easy then throttle setting is highly dependent on how accurate your right foot is.
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      02-12-2015, 01:44 PM   #47
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I had a smart car, well, I bought one for my wife because she loved them. What a PITA tranny! Anyway, I agree with above.... You can solve the "bucking bronco" on takeoff either by switching throttle mapping to comfort, or by getting the clutch to engage before accelerating. Either works just fine for me. Its not an auto guys, not even close! Thank god though.... I sometimes fishtale a bit switching gears. Thats FUN! I would HATE this car if it had a slushbox like my Cayenne GTS has.... that 8 speed "tiptronic" is a mushy boring piece of garbage. The PDK porshe tranny is MUCH more fun like our DCT.
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      02-12-2015, 01:50 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ixse View Post
Dont even discuss jerky tranny.......
Wait, we're still talking about the M's tranny, right?

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      02-12-2015, 01:56 PM   #49
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This generation of DCT is absolutely amazing IMO - In my old E92 I sometimes suffered from the "bucking bronco" syndrome when pulling away from lights, but not in the new car.. They really have ironed out the kinks.

Its fair to say that in Sport + mode you do need to be "positive" about what you want the gearbox to do, hesitation or over modulation when moving off from a stop has the potential to confuse the system i.e.: "What are you asking me to do?". So if you are in the most aggressive sport + mode you will need to be very positive (Not hesitant) in your driving style in order to communicate clearly to the DCT systems your intentions.
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      02-12-2015, 02:07 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
This.

Despite some people calling it an "automatic" it is not an automatic transmission. It is an automated manual transmission. It has no torque converter, and the internal gears are much more closely related to a traditional manual than an automatic.

Therefore, you cannot expect it to drive like an automatic. Oh sure, it'll shift without your intervention, but that's where the similarities stop. There's a clutch in there (well, two, of course) engaging the gears, not s torque converter. You have to drive it like you would a manual off the line. Just without the left foot involvement.
IMO if it shifts automatically it is by definition an automatic transmission. The DCT does use very different technology to shift gears than planetary geared ATs like the ZF 8 Speed in the 3/4 series and the way the DCT shifts gears is closer to the way an MT changes gears than the way a Planetary AT changes gears. The ZF has gears and clutches to shift the gears and the torque converter is locked up once the car gets underway,
Torque converters are actually very good devices for smooth starts.

To confuse the issue even more there are some DCTs on the market that use torque converters for smooth starts and there are some "traditional" planetary geared ATs that use a multi-plate clutch pack instead of torque converters.

The performance of traditional ATs has gotten so good that the difference between an AT and a DCT is getting do close that it is in some cases difficult to discern,

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Last edited by captainaudio; 02-12-2015 at 02:14 PM..
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      02-12-2015, 02:15 PM   #51
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Ok, so for a new M guy like myself... coming from the 3-series, ZF 8, both in D and I use S quite a bit too... can you guys coach me up on what exactly I should expect from the DCT... differences, cautions, annoyances, etc.? I will using Comfort mode to start, maybe trying Sport... probably not Sport+ (at least not for a while). I'm just trying to "understand" everything many of you are saying. Thanks!!
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      02-12-2015, 03:00 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0-100 real quick View Post
A friend claims his does it when the tranny is cold. I've done it a couple times but just think it's my foot bouncing on the throttle.

When it does happen I hurry up and shift to 2nd.
I do the same...I get the jerkiness when I'm in the paddle shifting mode but not when the automatic is engaged. Shifting quickly to 2nd solves that jerkiness.
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      02-12-2015, 03:35 PM   #53
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Jerkiness or lack of smooth shifting is not a desirable quality in a transmission as when you are close to the limits it can upset the car by causing rapid and unpredictable weight transfer. Fast is smooth.

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      02-12-2015, 07:17 PM   #54
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If you're comparing it to the latest BMW 8 speed you'll think the DCT is a nightmare. DCT eventually teaches you how to drive it if you're paying attention and experimenting with modes and throttle application rates and such. I've come to really love my DCT. It's just the right amount of "connectedness" over the 8 AT in our F-15 without the burden of needing to use both feet and both hands.
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      02-13-2015, 10:20 AM   #55
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Throttle on sport dct on level 2/3. Switch from 1st to 2nd gear just a little over 4k rpm. Smooth like butter.
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      02-13-2015, 11:03 AM   #56
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I believe it's just something DCT equipped M owners have to live up for those faster shifting time needed. however most guys here are correct, those SMG days are worst brother.
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      02-13-2015, 11:08 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick955 View Post
Ok, so for a new M guy like myself... coming from the 3-series, ZF 8, both in D and I use S quite a bit too... can you guys coach me up on what exactly I should expect from the DCT... differences, cautions, annoyances, etc.? I will using Comfort mode to start, maybe trying Sport... probably not Sport+ (at least not for a while). I'm just trying to "understand" everything many of you are saying. Thanks!!
Drive in manual mode 100% of the time. You will enjoy the car more.

The problem comes in when people believe this is an automatic transmission. It does not behave like one.
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      02-13-2015, 11:48 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Drive in manual mode 100% of the time. You will enjoy the car more.

The problem comes in when people believe this is an automatic transmission. It does not behave like one.
I find that it behaves fine as an automatic transmission and that is one huge advantage that the DCT has over the SMG which was a terrible transmission.

When we were test driving cars with DCT I tried to explain the difference between the DCT and the Steptronic to my wife (who is very adept with MTs) and she had no idea what I was talking about.

CA
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      02-13-2015, 12:20 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Drive in manual mode 100% of the time. You will enjoy the car more.

The problem comes in when people believe this is an automatic transmission. It does not behave like one.
Thanks, BlackJet... but can you elaborate a bit as to the specifics as to why "it does not behave like one"? I'm trying to grasp all the comments as to how this is "not" a conventional AT and obviously, until I get it and actually use it, it's hard to visualize what people are saying.
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      02-13-2015, 12:25 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I find that it behaves fine as an automatic transmission and that is one huge advantage that the DCT has over the SMG which was a terrible transmission.

When we were test driving cars with DCT I tried to explain the difference between the DCT and the Steptronic to my wife (who is very adept with MTs) and she had no idea what I was talking about.

CA
I am coming from driving a manual 6 speed and picking up my F80 DCT next week. Appreciate these comments but I am still confused as I have no problem modulating throttle and shifting gears but want a solution for my wife who will drive this from time to time and has no experience with manual transmissions. What is the best setting for my wife? Thanks
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      02-13-2015, 12:37 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick955 View Post
Thanks, BlackJet... but can you elaborate a bit as to the specifics as to why "it does not behave like one"? I'm trying to grasp all the comments as to how this is "not" a conventional AT and obviously, until I get it and actually use it, it's hard to visualize what people are saying.
Do some quick research on what a torque converter is an what it does. The DCT does not have one.
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      02-13-2015, 12:43 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Drive in manual mode 100% of the time. You will enjoy the car more.

The problem comes in when people believe this is an automatic transmission. It does not behave like one.
If it has a D AND R It is an automatic. Period.

Let's not start with. "Define Sexual relations" It's very simple sir.

Even if you drive in "Manual Mode". It is virtual manual mode. The computer does the shifting when when it's good and ready when you ask it to.

I am no saying here one is better than the other simply trying to keep things honest and real.

Last edited by nachob; 02-13-2015 at 12:58 PM..
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      02-13-2015, 12:50 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Do some quick research on what a torque converter is an what it does. The DCT does not have one.
Although a torque converter is a very good device for smooth takeoff (which is all it is used for on many modern ATs) it is very possible to get a smooth takeoff without one and there are a number of "traditional" ATs on the market that have replaced the torque converter with a multi-plate clutch pack (i.e. some Mercedes AMG models) and they start out quite smoothly.

For a driver that has no experience with MTs and has never driven a DCT put the car in drive and go easy on the throttle and you will be fine and will probably not notice much of s difference. The biggest difference you will notice is that the car will not creep forward when stopped and in gear and that it can start to roll backwards if you are stopped on a hill without the brake applied.
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      02-13-2015, 12:55 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Although a torque converter is a very good device for smooth takeoff (which is all it is used for on many modern ATs) it is very possible to get a smooth takeoff without one and there are a number of "traditional" ATs on the market that have replaced the torque converter with a multi-plate clutch pack (i.e. some Mercedes AMG models) and they start out quite smoothly.

For a driver that has no experience with MTs and has never driven a DCT put the car in drive and go easy on the throttle and you will be fine and will probably not notice much of s difference. The biggest difference you will notice is that the car will not creep forward when stopped and in gear and that it can start to roll backwards if you are stopped on a hill without the brake applied.
Thanks, Captain. I know there is no P, and also read about the creeping forward/rolling back aspects. But if it's in D, I was assuming that it functions pretty much is like any AT, (with those exceptions you noted).
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      02-13-2015, 04:48 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly4Tarpon View Post
I sometimes fishtale a bit switching gears. Thats FUN!
The MCT (which has a wet startup clutch in lieu of a torque converter) in my C63 rev-matches on downshifts in S+ and M. Even with my summer tires on, whenever I stand on the brakes before entering a corner, the downshifts into 3rd (and sometimes 4th) elicit a little hip waggle from the back end and I absolutely love it (passengers are like ).

The MCT is incredibly smooth in C but not as crisp/quick as the M-DCT in M mode.

I experienced the surging and bucking a few times in the E9X but the newest version of the M-DCT in the F80 is much, much better. As others have said, so long as the driver does his/her part, the transmission works flawlessly.

I really like the F80 M3. Can't wait to get behind the wheel of one again.
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      02-13-2015, 04:53 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
. . . there are a number of "traditional" ATs on the market that have replaced the torque converter with a multi-plate clutch pack (i.e. some Mercedes AMG models) and they start out quite smoothly.
Precisely. That is the same point I made in the post above. The MCT (wet startup clutch; no conventional torque converter) is at its very best in the various automatic modes (C, S, S+, RS).

The M-DCT's M mode is better. It is one of the F8X's best attributes. When you grab a shift, it is there. Absolutely fantastic transmission. Porsche's PDK is perhaps slightly better but the M-DCT is not far behind at all.
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