Got my Ohlin R/T

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Is rear traction increased with the Ohlins?

Better dampers will keep tires on the road better than inferior ones so in a sense yes. you will have more traction going and coming out of the turns and in transition. In a straight line you are better off with wider or stickier tires.

[hwalk]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

Better dampers will keep tires on the road better than inferior ones so in a sense yes. you will have more traction going and coming out of the turns and in transition. In a straight line you are better off with wider or stickier tires.

I took my car to a shop last Monday to install the Öhlins R&T and took the car to Hockenheimring yesterday. Here my experiences with the R&T (please excuse my bad english i'm a damned Kraut):

Installation was not that easy if you're not a Pro with fully a equipped garage and lot of experience.
Lowering front: I had -20mm with AC Schnitzer springs and have roundabout -15 with Öhlins which is alright especially if you take your car on track from time to time. I'll post some pics (unfortunately i'm restricted to uploads on my business PC..)
Rear (!): At first i wondered about the massive rear spring from Öhlins, it looks like as it fits to a Caterpillar and it's really heavy. When we installed it the car looked like a SUV and rear was higher than stock.....I went out for a liitle test round: way too hard, what spring rates are they using? Have they really ever tested that stuff???
Finally we changed the Öhlins spring back to the ACS rear spring and the rear hight was like before.
Driving: After a proper setup with a bit negative camber the car felt fantastic and no comparison to stock. On my way home i went 285km/h on the Autobahn and had no sweaty palms.... Of course it feels harder, maybe like "Sport Plus" but steering etc. felt absolutely great. In combination with 20' wheels it's maybe too hard for DD, it felt better with 19'.
On track (Hockenheim) the car felt fantastic with that setup, way more traction than with stock and way easier to throw the M4 around the corners...really good fun!
Finally: I cannot understand why Öhlins destroys the performance of their really fantastic dampers with those crappy rear springs that are way too massive, too high and too hard. I hope they'll review that issue as my mechanic guy contacted them immediately. As long as they don't change this you shouldn't expect better traction. My current combination (Öhlins front, ACS rear) is just an intermediate solution as it's not allowed to mix different springs even if it feels absolutely great...

Cheers

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by hwalk

I took my car to a shop last Monday to install the Öhlins R&T and took the car to Hockenheimring yesterday. Here my experiences with the R&T (please excuse my bad english i'm a damned Kraut):

Installation was not that easy if you're not a Pro with fully a equipped garage and lot of experience.
Lowering front: I had -20mm with AC Schnitzer springs and have roundabout -15 with Öhlins which is alright especially if you take your car on track from time to time. I'll post some pics (unfortunately i'm restricted to uploads on my business PC..)
Rear (!): At first i wondered about the massive rear spring from Öhlins, it looks like as it fits to a Caterpillar and it's really heavy. When we installed it the car looked like a SUV and rear was higher than stock.....I went out for a liitle test round: way too hard, what spring rates are they using? Have they really ever tested that stuff???
Finally we changed the Öhlins spring back to the ACS rear spring and the rear hight was like before.
Driving: After a proper setup with a bit negative camber the car felt fantastic and no comparison to stock. On my way home i went 285km/h on the Autobahn and had no sweaty palms.... Of course it feels harder, maybe like "Sport Plus" but steering etc. felt absolutely great. In combination with 20' wheels it's maybe too hard for DD, it felt better with 19'.
On track (Hockenheim) the car felt fantastic with that setup, way more traction than with stock and way easier to throw the M4 around the corners...really good fun!
Finally: I cannot understand why Öhlins destroys the performance of their really fantastic dampers with those crappy rear springs that are way too massive, too high and too hard. I hope they'll review that issue as my mechanic guy contacted them immediately. As long as they don't change this you shouldn't expect better traction. My current combination (Öhlins front, ACS rear) is just an intermediate solution as it's not allowed to mix different springs even if it feels absolutely great...

Cheers

We spoke to Ohlins in length during their R&D and the engineers seem to be locked on that rate after all the testing they have done.

The M2 kit coming out should have lower rates and that could be a good option for M3/4 owners looking for a more compliant ride.

[kitesurfer]

Originally Posted by hwalk

I took my car to a shop last Monday to install the Öhlins R&T and took the car to Hockenheimring yesterday. Here my experiences with the R&T (please excuse my bad english i'm a damned Kraut):

Installation was not that easy if you're not a Pro with fully a equipped garage and lot of experience.
Lowering front: I had -20mm with AC Schnitzer springs and have roundabout -15 with Öhlins which is alright especially if you take your car on track from time to time. I'll post some pics (unfortunately i'm restricted to uploads on my business PC..)
Rear (!): At first i wondered about the massive rear spring from Öhlins, it looks like as it fits to a Caterpillar and it's really heavy. When we installed it the car looked like a SUV and rear was higher than stock.....I went out for a liitle test round: way too hard, what spring rates are they using? Have they really ever tested that stuff???
Finally we changed the Öhlins spring back to the ACS rear spring and the rear hight was like before.
Driving: After a proper setup with a bit negative camber the car felt fantastic and no comparison to stock. On my way home i went 285km/h on the Autobahn and had no sweaty palms.... Of course it feels harder, maybe like "Sport Plus" but steering etc. felt absolutely great. In combination with 20' wheels it's maybe too hard for DD, it felt better with 19'.
On track (Hockenheim) the car felt fantastic with that setup, way more traction than with stock and way easier to throw the M4 around the corners...really good fun!
Finally: I cannot understand why Öhlins destroys the performance of their really fantastic dampers with those crappy rear springs that are way too massive, too high and too hard. I hope they'll review that issue as my mechanic guy contacted them immediately. As long as they don't change this you shouldn't expect better traction. My current combination (Öhlins front, ACS rear) is just an intermediate solution as it's not allowed to mix different springs even if it feels absolutely great...

Cheers

what I was saying since the get go (a caught a lot of shit for it) a 1300# spring is still a 1300# spring regardless of how good a damper. 750-900# in the rear is about the max you want to go if you want to have a car you can live with on the street

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by hwalk

I took my car to a shop last Monday to install the Öhlins R&T and took the car to Hockenheimring yesterday. Here my experiences with the R&T (please excuse my bad english i'm a damned Kraut):

Installation was not that easy if you're not a Pro with fully a equipped garage and lot of experience.
Lowering front: I had -20mm with AC Schnitzer springs and have roundabout -15 with Öhlins which is alright especially if you take your car on track from time to time. I'll post some pics (unfortunately i'm restricted to uploads on my business PC..)
Rear (!): At first i wondered about the massive rear spring from Öhlins, it looks like as it fits to a Caterpillar and it's really heavy. When we installed it the car looked like a SUV and rear was higher than stock.....I went out for a liitle test round: way too hard, what spring rates are they using? Have they really ever tested that stuff???
Finally we changed the Öhlins spring back to the ACS rear spring and the rear hight was like before.
Driving: After a proper setup with a bit negative camber the car felt fantastic and no comparison to stock. On my way home i went 285km/h on the Autobahn and had no sweaty palms.... Of course it feels harder, maybe like "Sport Plus" but steering etc. felt absolutely great. In combination with 20' wheels it's maybe too hard for DD, it felt better with 19'.
On track (Hockenheim) the car felt fantastic with that setup, way more traction than with stock and way easier to throw the M4 around the corners...really good fun!
Finally: I cannot understand why Öhlins destroys the performance of their really fantastic dampers with those crappy rear springs that are way too massive, too high and too hard. I hope they'll review that issue as my mechanic guy contacted them immediately. As long as they don't change this you shouldn't expect better traction. My current combination (Öhlins front, ACS rear) is just an intermediate solution as it's not allowed to mix different springs even if it feels absolutely great...

Cheers

You are the first person and reviewer that has said that.

Everyone else who has gotten the kit has raved about it.

I don't think Ohlin would spec a spring rate that would make the car skittish, they are known for thoroughly testing spring rates and damping curves before releasing a product.

Any performance suspension product you put on a car isn't going to feel OEM, that's not the point of "performance" components.

I'm sure it's less harsh than say a KW Clubsport

Unless you have an adaptive suspension (like The Who knows when it will be released Bilstein B-16 damptronics), there will be compromises.

A stiller spring offers increase stability and less squat / dive. Ride quality will suffer a little.

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

You are the first person and reviewer that has said that.

A stiller spring offers increase stability and less squat / dive. Ride quality will suffer a little.

I think you want a little bit of squat on corner exit, especially with all this torque and difficulty getting traction down? I don't know, 1300 lbs seems like an awfully stiff spring for this chassis. It's still a BMW M3, right? with similar geometry to previous generations? I've never seen such a stiff spring in E36,E46,E92? E46 track only cars are usually a 900lb rear spring.

An interesting experiment would be to use this 1300 rear spring form Ohlins and then take the rear sway bar out completely. I've always thought this car had too much rear bar anyway.

[kitesurfer]

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

I think you want a little bit of squat on corner exit, especially with all this torque and difficulty getting traction down? I don't know, 1300 lbs seems like an awfully stiff spring for this chassis. It's still a BMW M3, right? with similar geometry to previous generations? I've never seen such a stiff spring in E36,E46,E92? E46 track only cars are usually a 900lb rear spring.

An interesting experiment would be to use this 1300 rear spring form Ohlins and then take the rear sway bar out completely. I've always thought this car had too much rear bar anyway.

I had a chat with TC (of TC Kline racing) at VIR he stated things very similar to what you have stated....he was running his M4 a few years back & was absolutely smoking VIR full course (super driver) in the very low 2:00's., at this time he was running TCK DA's and was using only a 600# rear spring IIRC, he stated it allowed him get the power down early out of the turns.

[slavearm]

Soften the rear dampers... I am running about 19 clicks in the rear at the moment and nobody riding in my car on the street says its rough. Hell that is even with DD on MPSC2s.

[hwalk]

Originally Posted by slavearm

Soften the rear dampers... I am running about 19 clicks in the rear at the moment and nobody riding in my car on the street says its rough. Hell that is even with DD on MPSC2s.

Well, i think the car lacks traction with OEM suspension so better dampers should improve that. IMO such a stiff spring deletes that effect. I can hardly believe that your solution works well. As i mentioned above the rear was ridiculous high the car looked like sh*t. I am really not a "lower-and-lowest" junkie but i expect a quality system like Öhlins to be more adjustable in terms of lowering. None of the competitor´s products is limited like the Öhlins R&T. I was focused on technology so i preferred Öhlins over KW and Bilstein but the rear springs and the lowering limitations are very disappointing.

@HP-
That doesn´t sound promising... i have the problem that i need a TÜV approval so i can´t use the current mixed setup for any longer. Hopefully they´ll move their asses in Stockholm or reputation may suffer...

[slavearm]

The rear is fairly adjustable and your installer may have made a mistake with the spring perch pre-tensioner or the shock body height adjuster. I'm running the "giant truck springs" and cannot even fit an entire finger in the gap between the tire and the fender.

[hwalk]

Originally Posted by slavearm

The rear is fairly adjustable and your installer may have made a mistake with the spring perch pre-tensioner or the shock body height adjuster. I'm running the "giant truck springs" and cannot even fit an entire finger in the gap between the tire and the fender.

They're very familiar with Öhlins (main vendor in Bavaria) so I guess they know what they are doing. Would you have a pic?

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by hwalk

Well, i think the car lacks traction with OEM suspension so better dampers should improve that. IMO such a stiff spring deletes that effect. I can hardly believe that your solution works well. As i mentioned above the rear was ridiculous high the car looked like sh*t. I am really not a "lower-and-lowest" junkie but i expect a quality system like Öhlins to be more adjustable in terms of lowering. None of the competitor´s products is limited like the Öhlins R&T. I was focused on technology so i preferred Öhlins over KW and Bilstein but the rear springs and the lowering limitations are very disappointing.

@HP-
That doesn´t sound promising... i have the problem that i need a TÜV approval so i can´t use the current mixed setup for any longer. Hopefully they´ll move their asses in Stockholm or reputation may suffer...

Was the installation double checked? The rear doesn't lower just doesn't seem right.

[hwalk]

Thanks HP, you're right. Maybe they delivered a wrong spring. I'll wait for Öhlins replication and hopefully things will get clearer then. Don't get me wrong, I like their stuff really and the car is amazing despite the rear spring issue.

[chesterroh]

I got Ohlins R&T with my F82 M4 recently, drove it at track. I could feel the car fell into over-steer more often than the previous OEM setup, escaping traction feels just good. Since it copes with my driving style, it feels just okay. But problem is when I drive at a street. This car is my DD and it doesn't work with bumpy back street of Seoul. Even though I loosened it to 19 clicks from the stiffest, the harsh feeling of hard spring still remains, and it makes me uneasy. It's just Ohlins Track, not *Road* and track. I'm seriously considering to lower the rate of rear spring.

What option do I have for that? Does F30 ohlins R&T rear spring fit with mine? Is it just okay to lower the spring rate, with not touching anything with dampers?

What other options available? I don't know how to specify the spring that I want. All I feel is that 900 lbs/in would fit after reading all the articles in this thread :0

Thanks!

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by hwalk

My current combination (Öhlins front, ACS rear) is just an intermediate solution as it's not allowed to mix different springs even if it feels absolutely great...

Cheers

What does this mean? Of course it's "allowed". You just did it. There's no springs police. No one cares how you mix and match springs. As long as it meets your needs, it's 100% fine.

What would you do if Ohlins came out with a different set or rear springs that are still way too stiff compared to your ACS rear springs? Would you stick with the revised Ohlins springs just because they're produced by Ohlins? Or would you stick w/ ACS springs which, by your description, feels absolutely great?

[robbo mcs]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

What does this mean? Of course it's "allowed". You just did it. There's no springs police. No one cares how you mix and match springs. As long as it meets your needs, it's 100% fine.

The OP is in Germany. He needs TUV certification, so he can't simply change to a different spring. Technically he needs to use the entire ohlins kit as certified.

[hwalk]

Originally Posted by robbo mcs

The OP is in Germany. He needs TUV certification, so he can't simply change to a different spring. Technically he needs to use the entire ohlins kit as certified.

Yes, that's correct. Unfortunately you never get the TÜV approval if it's not a whole set of springs as certificates are made for all 4 springs. With Öhlins coil overs you have to use the specified springs that belong to the system.

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by hwalk

Yes, that's correct. Unfortunately you never get the TÜV approval if it's not a whole set of springs as certificates are made for all 4 springs. With Öhlins coil overs you have to use the specified springs that belong to the system.

Thanks for the explanation guys. Is TUV approval for safety reasons? The first thing I thought of when reading your posts was H&R Springs. Those are all made in Germany and, IMO, many - especially the spring kits that slam the car, are downright dangerous. Funny that H&R can get TUV approval for their spring kits, but heaven forbid if an end user wants to tune their own coilover kit with custom spring rates.

[hwalk]

Yes, TÜV is for safety reasons but as with all bureaucratic institutions it's often about formal and legal issues. I completely agree with you regarding H&R, unbelievable that this crappy stuff's got the TÜV-approval...

[chesterroh]

Originally Posted by chesterroh

I got Ohlins R&T with my F82 M4 recently, drove it at track. I could feel the car fell into over-steer more often than the previous OEM setup, escaping traction feels just good. Since it copes with my driving style, it feels just okay. But problem is when I drive at a street. This car is my DD and it doesn't work with bumpy back street of Seoul. Even though I loosened it to 19 clicks from the stiffest, the harsh feeling of hard spring still remains, and it makes me uneasy. It's just Ohlins Track, not *Road* and track. I'm seriously considering to lower the rate of rear spring.

What option do I have for that? Does F30 ohlins R&T rear spring fit with mine? Is it just okay to lower the spring rate, with not touching anything with dampers?

What other options available? I don't know how to specify the spring that I want. All I feel is that 900 lbs/in would fit after reading all the articles in this thread :0

Thanks!

I'm self-answering to my previous question.

I got to know that F80/F82 Ohlins R&T rear spring specification is height 230mm, ID(inner diameter) is 65mm, which is 9"-long, with 2.5" inner diameter... And the bummer is that eibach, hyperco doesn't manufacture this spec. With ID 2.5", they just produce 8" and 10". No 9" height coilover springs. During the massive research and talk with my tuner, I got to know that Ohlins Road and Track for F30 does have a same spec with H230mm, ID65mm with spring rate 160Nm/mm, which is around 913 lbs/inch. So I ordered it for the replacement of the current 230Nm/mm one.

I drove it at the track the other day,

.

I can surely attest that I do deeply understand why ohlins guys chose this-hard rear spring. It feels just right. But I'm decreasing the rate of rear spring only because of uncomfy ride feel in my DD.

I'll report back after replacing it with F30 900lbs/inch one with DD and tracking. Thanks!

[WoohooSoCal]

Originally Posted by chesterroh

I can surely attest that I do deeply understand why ohlins guys chose this-hard rear spring. It feels just right. But I'm decreasing the rate of rear spring only because of uncomfy ride feel in my DD.

I'll report back after replacing it with F30 900lbs/inch one with DD and tracking. Thanks!

Yes, keep us updated. I like the hard rear spring but would like to hear about your experience with the 900 on the street.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by chesterroh

I'm self-answering to my previous question.

I got to know that F80/F82 Ohlins R&T rear spring specification is height 230mm, ID(inner diameter) is 65mm, which is 9"-long, with 2.5" inner diameter... And the bummer is that eibach, hyperco doesn't manufacture this spec. With ID 2.5", they just produce 8" and 10". No 9" height coilover springs. During the massive research and talk with my tuner, I got to know that Ohlins Road and Track for F30 does have a same spec with H230mm, ID65mm with spring rate 160Nm/mm, which is around 913 lbs/inch. So I ordered it for the replacement of the current 230Nm/mm one.

I drove it at the track the other day,

.

I can surely attest that I do deeply understand why ohlins guys chose this-hard rear spring. It feels just right. But I'm decreasing the rate of rear spring only because of uncomfy ride feel in my DD.

I'll report back after replacing it with F30 900lbs/inch one with DD and tracking. Thanks!

Have you looked into Swift? Swift offers a z65-228-160 which is a 65mm ID(same as Ohlins) 9" 896 lb/in spring.