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10-01-2013, 06:18 AM | #133 | |
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However I believe that the reasoning might be twofold (and this is just my private thoughts): 1: An oversquare engine will have better ability to produce torque higher in the RPM range and an undersquare engine will in the lower RPM range. Producing torque higher in the RPM range will yield more power. Low cost, durability, reliability, overall efficiency favor long stroke low RPM engines. High specific output, power to weight favor bigger bore high RPM engines. 2: A new block with larger bore spacing allows for larger bore in future versions of the S55. The short 80mm stroke also leaves plenty of room for longer stroke. In short, the S55 could form the basis of a new generation of M engines, from the 3l M3/M4 to a 3,6-3,8l (for example with a 3,8l - 94mm bore and 91mm stroke) M5/M6 engine. All possible to accomodate within the S55 block, but not realistically in the N55 (you would need a 98mm stroke to get 3,7l from the N55). Last edited by Boss330; 10-01-2013 at 06:24 AM.. |
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10-01-2013, 08:13 AM | #134 |
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I am also eagerly anticipating official word from BMW regarding the S55 bore and stroke specifications. Until then, as interesting as they are, all our discussions here remains speculative.
For me, the potential of the S55 being a brand new bespoke ///M engine is one of the most exciting news about the F8X Last edited by CanAutM3; 10-01-2013 at 08:52 AM.. |
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10-01-2013, 09:16 AM | #135 | |
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That also implies that BMW M has a fairly strong position and solid budgets within BMW. |
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10-01-2013, 03:06 PM | #136 | |
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-M Sport models -pseudo M models like the 1M (number in front of letter) -M SUVs like X5M, X6M -The coming new real M models such as the M2 and M4 However, I too remain thrilled that the M4 probably has a unique M engine. The flip side of that is that per BMWs cost and materials offensives (their exact word, not mine), the block/heads will undoubtedly be used on other models in the future. Thus it has little to no chance to be a truly M3/M4 specific M engine.
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10-01-2013, 03:56 PM | #137 | |
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It would be sacriledge to call it the M1... The M1 is an icon and a production model based M car should not be named after the most iconic M car through history... |
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10-01-2013, 04:21 PM | #138 | ||
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How about this one for fun : Suppose BMW is going back to the I6 for their top-tier engines (excl. V12). They will soon phase out the V8 family entirely and replace them all with big bore I6's. In other words, its a return to the days of the big-six/little-six, before the M60 V8 came onto the scene. Now do I believe that? No, not seriously. But it would be the sort of move that, in my mind, would need to be afoot to really justify a brand new I6 engine architecture. The thing is, the chances of the kick-off engine in such a lineup a) being just 3L and b) debuting in an M car, in my mind are approaching zero. Kind of neat to ponder though. |
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10-01-2013, 07:28 PM | #139 |
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Did BMW create a 3 liter I6 equivalent of the N63?
The S55 seems very similar to the N63 in terms of power and characteristics. Will this be the 550, X5/X6 50i,750 engine in the future?
( S55 rpm estimates from dyno and tach. ) N63: 4,395*cc, 402*hp @5500-6400, 440*lb·ft@1750-4500, 7000 rpm redline S55: 3,000 cc, 430 hp @6000-7000, ~400 lb·ft@2000-5500, 7500 rpm redline I would think dyno charts from both engines will look very similar with a slight shift of the curves to higher rpms for the S55 |
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10-01-2013, 07:54 PM | #142 |
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It would of course be renamed and probably lose the turbo pre-pressurizing function and have rpm lowered to be able to swap to cheaper materials here and there. It would make a good base though as I think mkoesel already touched on.
Btw I recently ran an N63 equipped 750iL at 13.3s/109.4 mph at the strip from standstill and idle rpms with one attempt. Similar power delivery should be pretty fierce in a 3500 lbs car even if the engine characteristic is not very exciting in itself. |
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10-01-2013, 08:45 PM | #143 | |
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10-01-2013, 08:53 PM | #145 | |
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Secondly the similarities could make for a good downsizing replacement for the V8s in the standard cars and SUVs with some minor changes to lower cost. The rpm does not need to run to 7500 for the standard cars for example. |
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10-01-2013, 09:20 PM | #146 |
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More likely to be the block for the N55 replacement.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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10-01-2013, 09:23 PM | #147 | |
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Almost no way it stays excusive to //M. Then BMW shouldn't have called it the S55. Not really sure why they did that when it's a different block. .
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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10-01-2013, 09:31 PM | #148 |
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10-01-2013, 09:48 PM | #149 | |
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Besides, the I4 sounds pretty bad and isn't smoothe enough for the higher end cars. .
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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10-01-2013, 11:35 PM | #151 |
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Sure the naming factor is related to the legacy of the M1. Rumor I heard though was that focus groups preferred M1 but the BMW Board made the final call on the name. However, the 1M is a "special" (literally less than special) M car in many ways. No other M car has been made from such a parts bin type of approach. BMW developed the car in record time (and I'm sure at record low cost as well). Some passionately call it a true M car, others don't. Of course I am the big, bad jealous M3 owner in the latter camp...
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10-02-2013, 06:31 AM | #152 | |||
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There is the new M Performance vehicles though, which would fit into your list of types of M branded vehicles in your earlier post. As we know, these are products that typically sit just above the M-Sport trim line in the overall picture, borrowing heavily (almost entirely) from the aesthetics of that line rather than using M-proper aesthetics, and mechanically offering mostly minor tweaks from the top tier series car which they sit just above. The new M235i, however, does at least add an LSD which is a popularly requested feature for a non-M-proper car. |
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10-02-2013, 08:46 AM | #153 | |
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But I do disagree, with all due respect, about your 1M opinion. Yes the 1M is parts bin, yes it is a tweaked N54, but tweaked by ///M, yes it has an E92 chassis/brakes/wheels, yes they did it for cost effective reasons only, but hell yes what a car has been produced. That is not only my opinion, but the whole automotive industry and all world wide carmagazines/journalists. It is totally irrelevant if this car is a real ///M car or not, (but 99% of all people who had the chance to drive/own one, say it is utterly ///M) this car is by far the best bimmer I have ever driven (did own E46 M3, E92 M3) only a E46 M3CSL will match this car in driving fun, overall speaking I dare to say the 1M is the best fun car ever made by BMW ( real ///M or not) Yes there was little time for development, yes it was made and produced by a little group off enthusiasts, but they made the whole BMW board proud, this car was a revelation to the world, once again was made crystal clear what the potential off the BMW brand was, this car will be one for the history books. It is living history as we speak ! All future ///M cars will always be compared to the 1M, as it was really the beginning of a new era. Last edited by Romo; 10-02-2013 at 10:23 AM.. |
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10-02-2013, 09:25 AM | #154 | |
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If the most important part of calling something "true M" is by the process of creation, and not by the end result. If the first is the case, then "true M" has more of a image and "poseur" meaning IMHO. What should matter is how the car drives, feels, gives feedback and if it's is a fast and enjoyable sports car. If M make a car that is one the greatest driver cars in their history, who cares if they used parts that already were developed for the M3 or other cars? I get that a "bespoke" M3 might be perceived as a "purer" M, by the fact that it's been developed more substantially by M. But if the result of that development is carried over to the 1M, and that ends up being a more involving/"better" drivers car, what's not to like... |
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