04-28-2014, 10:42 PM | #243 |
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3% is that a typo? Most folks use 15% although I think the current E92 probably has total losses closer to 12%.
Ah, I think I see how you guys are doing this, but it's really misleading. When a car is underrated you call that a low drivetrain loss. That screws up calculations and is entirely non-physical. The loss for the car will probably be 11-12% and it will probably be underrated producing right about 400 whp.
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04-28-2014, 11:10 PM | #244 | |
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My m5 WITH charcoal filters using the Dyno recommended by friends at PTF posted the below... if you'd like to see the car on the dyno I'd be more than happy to put the video up too. point being if the m3/m4s are equally underrated its a given a majority of us should stay in the 400whp range. And if we're going off your 15% for the m5 at least that would be around 480whp the lowest dyno I've ever seen posted for an F10 m5 is 495... Most are between 510-530 with a good amount of us between 540-570 Last edited by M5Rlz; 04-29-2014 at 12:30 PM.. |
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04-29-2014, 03:20 AM | #245 |
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I got Cobb and Protuningfreaks eTuna St.2+ 450hp 660Nm on my 1M and I really loked it.
So if the f-series DME will be available for tuning, I will go the same way. And I will never install the jb4 or something - I had jb4 on my 335i and I wasn't hapy with it, got some Check engines cery often.
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04-29-2014, 06:15 AM | #246 | |
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04-29-2014, 09:21 AM | #247 |
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Nor have I heard of any manufacturer claiming 5% losses either. It's generally accepted that drivetrain losses usually are in the order of 10-20% depending on type of transmission etc. A few points: -Dyno numbers varies according to type of dyno, operator, and numerous factors that influence the actual recorded whp on the dyno -A whp number on a rolling road dyno is best used to verify before and after mod gains. It's not an exact tool to verify manufacturers crank HP claims -It's generally agreed that the M5 is underrated, meaning that a 560whp reading on a dyno doesn't mean you have 0% drivetrain loss... If we shall comparo dyno results. We at least need to know the type of dyno, correction factors etc. The same car might get 500whp on one dyno and 560whp on a different dyno... 560hp and a 15% drivetrain loss is 476whp, 12% loss is 493whp 600hp and a 15% drivetrain loss is 510whp, 12% loss is 528whp If we look at a test done on a MAHA dyno, the same as used by manufacturers and test facilities here in Europe. You will see that they also display the drivetrain losses and that is as much as 120-140hp... The MAHA is supposedly the more accurate dyno, and is why you don't see inflated whp numbers. The dyno actually measures the losses in the drivetrain (or how much power it takes just to get it from the crank and to the rear wheels). Last edited by Boss330; 04-29-2014 at 09:30 AM.. |
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04-29-2014, 09:29 AM | #248 | |
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04-29-2014, 09:33 AM | #249 |
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BMW said that the turbine side of the turbos are actually smaller than the N54...? Are you talking about the compressor side?
Do you have any info on the "1 size bigger"? Turbo spec has been requested several times but no hard data has been forthcoming so far. Would be great if someone finally had some solid info |
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04-29-2014, 09:39 AM | #250 | |
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But now I can't remmember where I read this...
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04-29-2014, 09:51 AM | #251 | |
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Please provide proof of this.
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Please provide proof again. Thats a very serious claim. Also, a 335 ran about 8.8 Psi stock on N54, 10 on N55.
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04-29-2014, 09:53 AM | #252 | |
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04-29-2014, 11:29 AM | #253 | |
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Instead of nitpicking each others numbers which are relatively accurate, you should just be happy you will own a +600hp tuned M3 at some point in the future. I don't know about you, but that definitely excites me.
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04-29-2014, 11:40 AM | #254 | |
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Boss330: Can you please translate the quantities in the upper left hand box of results?
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04-29-2014, 12:15 PM | #255 | ||
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And FYI while it may not be correct to say 554whp is 2% drivetrainloss of stock listed crank numbers[560] as BOSS explained... Nobody was trying to "fudge numbers" to win a posting war lol just show you that new M's (I know its hard with the NA ) are coming underrated, and its reasonable to assume this car will too. As you went off saying lets use 15% off stock crank numbers which wouldn't be a wise starting point either as even the f30 335i's were underrated as seen below. http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=652127 Last edited by M5Rlz; 04-29-2014 at 12:31 PM.. |
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04-29-2014, 12:52 PM | #256 | |
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Norm-leistung - Crank horsepower (HP/kW) corrected to "norm", in this case EU standard 80/1269 (but it can also be according to ISO or SAE standards of course) Motorleistung - Crank horsepower (before correction to the chosen standard) Radleistung - Wheel horsepower (RWHP as measured without correction) Schleppleistung - Drag power (or transmission losses) Hope this is what you requested |
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04-29-2014, 03:23 PM | #257 | |
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There is no intent whatsoever here of a post war. Not sure where that is coming from either....
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04-29-2014, 03:24 PM | #258 |
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Thanks, that is what I was looking for. For clarity I meant of the four boxes the upper left most box. Cheers.
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04-29-2014, 03:53 PM | #260 | |
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I explained how I was interpreting it, and while it may not be the correct way to do it, I certainly wasn't being unclear or trying to misrepresent the facts |
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04-29-2014, 04:04 PM | #261 |
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Hasn't the M5's ECU been notoriously difficult to crack?
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04-29-2014, 04:32 PM | #262 | ||
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Looking at pictures from Maha dynos, it seems they are roller type dynos. So the losses are more than drivetrain losses (crank to rear wheels as you stated correctly), they also include tire rolling resistance and may include inertial factors depending which type of dyno is used or what sampling methodology is used. It seems Maha does brake and inertia type dynos, the former being the more accurate one. But in terms of chassis dynos, hub dynos remain more accurate. Last edited by CanAutM3; 04-29-2014 at 08:25 PM.. |
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04-29-2014, 08:49 PM | #263 |
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Bold word added for clarity. Anyone who states a drivetrain loss for a modern automobile is 5% is being unclear.
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04-29-2014, 08:51 PM | #264 | |
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Perhaps 10-15% for 2WD and 15-25% for AWD?
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