M4 vs. Cayman GTS

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

For someone who allegedly likes the CAR in discussion, you're sure spending a lot of time talking about some PERSON you disagree with.

As for my interests, that's for me to worry about. You're welcome to concern yourself with a discussion of the car, not me personally. There's a difference.

But I will share that I have a lot of interest in BMW, and M specifically.

I do like the cars in the discussion. The GTS is amazing and I would love to own one. I love the M4 too and will still probably get one (especially with my discount).

For someone who claims to have a lot of interest in BMW and M, you sure to make a lot of unsubstantiated claims about a car you haven't even driven.

[F1Venom]

Cayman GTS, hands down. Unless you need the extra two or three seats.

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by Jockey

I do like the cars in the discussion. The GTS is amazing and I would love to own one. I love the M4 too and will still probably get one (especially with my discount).

For someone who claims to have a lot of interest in BMW and M, you sure to make a lot of unsubstantiated claims about a car you haven't even driven.

What are my unsubstantiated claims?

- Lower redline? Fact
- Inferior sound? Easily the majority opinion, plus BMW didn't pipe in fake sound to cover the awesome real sounds up. Oh, and MOST reviewers agree. Also, I HAVE heard the exhaust, in person. 370z.
- Lag? Again, BMW didn't build an anti-lag mode because one wasn't needed. Also again, lag is often mentioned in reviews. I haven't seen ANY review or claim by anyone that the throttle response is superior or equal to the S65; thus by definition it is a step backward.

There are many good things about the new M cars, and even some about the engine specifically:

- lighter, even if the 3300 is clearly bs
- more capable chassis
- next version, with no big price jump
- availability of cf brakes
- better fuel economy
- faster both in a straight line and on a road course
- more tunable
- more accessible power

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

What are my unsubstantiated claims?

- Inferior sound? Easily the majority opinion, plus BMW didn't pipe in fake sound to cover the awesome real sounds up. Oh, and MOST reviewers agree. Also, I HAVE heard the exhaust, in person. 370z.
- Lag? Again, BMW didn't build an anti-lag mode because one wasn't needed. Also again, lag is often mentioned in reviews. I haven't seen ANY review or claim by anyone that the throttle response is superior or equal to the S65; thus by definition it is a step backward.

It doesn't have inferior sound. But your original post was factually incorrect. The piped in sound isn't to cover up a "crappy sound", it's to enhance the induction sound to aid in allowing the driver knowing when to shift through sound alone. We can argue all day about the sound and get no where, many former E9X owners love the sound of the F8X and have commented that it's actually louder than the E9X in stock form.

As for lag, the fact that this car has anti-lag isn't a step backward, it's a step forward. Find me another production turbo car that has this feature. Sure lag is a tradeoff (very minimal at that and even less at the track) but you what you gain is a ton of torque.

All cars have tradeoffs. You seem to let the few negative (IMO, almost nonexistent) attributes of the F8X to completely overshadow how much of a leap forward it is as a total package.

But this thread isn't another F8X vs E9X thread (it's amazing how some people can turn any thread into this stupid debate), it's about one amazing car vs another amazing car.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by Jockey

It doesn't have inferior sound. But your original post was factually incorrect. The piped in sound isn't to cover up a "crappy sound", it's to enhance the induction sound to aid in allowing the driver knowing when to shift through sound alone. We can argue all day about the sound and get no where, many former E9X owners love the sound of the F8X and have commented that it's actually louder than the E9X in stock form.

As for lag, the fact that this car has anti-lag isn't a step backward, it's a step forward. Find me another production turbo car that has this feature. Sure lag is a tradeoff (very minimal at that and even less at the track) but you what you gain is a ton of torque.

All cars have tradeoffs. You seem to let the few negative (IMO, almost nonexistent) attributes of the F8X to completely overshadow how much of a leap forward it is as a total package.

But this thread isn't another F8X vs E9X thread (it's amazing how some people can turn any thread into this stupid debate), it's about one amazing car vs another amazing car.

[mithiral67]

Originally Posted by Jockey

All cars have tradeoffs. You seem to let the few negative (IMO, almost nonexistent) attributes of the F8X to completely overshadow how much of a leap forward it is as a total package.

In a discussion between the m and a cayman GTS, the sound is not an almost nonexistent topic. I have heard both the m4 and cayman gts exhaust and they are not in the same league. This isn't to say the m4 sounds bad, but that the GTS is on another level. I went to a bmw meet with my cayman (as its the same group of friends I have been rolling with for 5 or so years) and no one there disagreed that it wasn't the best sound stock exhaust (excluding possible the F Type, which even the reviewers give credit too but none of us have heard) anyone had ever heard for less than $150k.

IMO, you can discuss all the other merits of each car, but that one needs to left out for the M4 sake, IMO.

[mithiral67]

And will happily give anyone one in the chicagoland area a ride to prove my point

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by mithiral67

And will happily give anyone one in the chicagoland area a ride to prove my point

We're happy for you. Enjoy your GTS

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by mithiral67

In a discussion between the m and a cayman GTS, the sound is not an almost nonexistent topic.

Did you see me compare the sound of the GTS vs M4?

I haven't heard a GTS but I'm sure it sounds great.

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by Jockey

It doesn't have inferior sound. But your original post was factually incorrect. The piped in sound isn't to cover up a "crappy sound", it's to enhance the induction sound to aid in allowing the driver knowing when to shift through sound alone. We can argue all day about the sound and get no where, many former E9X owners love the sound of the F8X and have commented that it's actually louder than the E9X in stock form.

How many people who DON'T have an emotional stake in it (don't own it), who own a nice performance car, "love" the sound? Now, how many in that category DON'T love it?

Re:louder. So what? A truck with a rusted muffler is louder. I never said it wasn't noisy, or that noisy was preferable.

As for lag, the fact that this car has anti-lag isn't a step backward, it's a step forward.

Hilarious! Yea, lag, and systems to reduce it are a step forward from the no lag competition such as Cayman.

Find me another production turbo car that has this feature.

I agree it's a great feature to reduce a huge flaw in using turbo engines for performance cars. That's the point; it's a flaw.

Sure lag is a tradeoff (very minimal at that and even less at the track) but you what you gain is a ton of torque.

Let's be clear: if it was "minimal" there'd be no anti-lag mode. So stop, please.

Re: gain. I agree way more torque. You also lose all the high rpm rush.

All cars have tradeoffs. You seem to let the few negative (IMO, almost nonexistent) attributes of the F8X to completely overshadow how much of a leap forward it is as a total package.

I think it's a great car. Just can't imagine going straight from S65 to S55. That's going from a ginger to a brunette. Too drastic: gonna need a blond transition piece!

But this thread isn't another F8X vs E9X thread (it's amazing how some people can turn any thread into this stupid debate), it's about one amazing car vs another amazing car.

I need a back seat so in this context I'd choose the Bimmer.

Just wish it was a high revving NA motor.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

I agree it's a great feature to reduce a huge flaw in using turbo engines for performance cars. That's the point; it's a flaw.

There are quite a few good performance cars with turbo engines - Porsche 911 Turbo, Ferrari 458, AMG GT, to name a few. Even Formula One is going turb next year. Not a flaw - just the direction things are going.

[Jockey]

@Kurt_OH stop, just stop. You're bias is so overwhelming I still can't for the life of me fathom why you spend so much time in the F8X forum.

This isn't a E9X thread. Stop trashing this thread with your nonsense. Last time I looked, the E9X isn't a Cayman GTS. This thread isn't about the E9X.

[M3OW]

Originally Posted by gmcconn535

There are quite a few good performance cars with turbo engines - Porsche 911 Turbo, Ferrari 458, AMG GT, to name a few. Even Formula One is going turb next year. Not a flaw - just the direction things are going.

The 458 italia is turbo charged? This is the first I'm hearing of this. Thanks for your knowledgeable post.

[M3OW]

While I agree with most of kurt_oh posts the e9x is simply too fat and heavy for an s65 type motor. If the car was around 3200 pounds it would be a much different story. I for one would love to see a light bmw car with a high revving naturally aspirated motor but unfortunately bimmers these days are just too heavy for this type of motor.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by M3OW

The 458 italia is turbo charged? This is the first I'm hearing of this. Thanks for your knowledgeable post.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ferrari...tor-show-debut

[daeguboy]

Originally Posted by gmcconn535

There are quite a few good performance cars with turbo engines - Porsche 911 Turbo, Ferrari 458, AMG GT, to name a few. Even Formula One is going turb next year. Not a flaw - just the direction things are going.

fyi, F1 is turbo right NOW.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by daeguboy

fyi, F1 is turbo right NOW.

Thanks - lost track of time

[M3OW]

Originally Posted by gmcconn535

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ferrari...tor-show-debut

Yeah and that car is not out yet and hasn't been driven by anyone but Ferrari. So no one will know how it will stack up against the current 458. I suspect that enthusiast would still favor NA over FI but hey this is the future of cars.

[Homsyboy]

Originally Posted by M3OW

Yeah and that car is not out yet and hasn't been driven by anyone but Ferrari. So no one will know how it will stack up against the current 458. I suspect that enthusiast would still favor NA over FI but hey this is the future of cars.

And it sucks

[visualguy]

Originally Posted by M3OW

Total retail price $85,945.00 plus I negotiated a 6% discount off total price.

How did you achieve that? At least in NorCal, the Cayman GTS is not discounted by any meaningful amount. There are more than enough buyers at MSRP for the available allocations.

[M3OW]

Originally Posted by visualguy

How did you achieve that? At least in NorCal, the Cayman GTS is not discounted by any meaningful amount. There are more than enough buyers at MSRP for the available allocations.

Not here in southern Cali, I got a nice discount and couldn't be happier.

[mithiral67]

Originally Posted by visualguy

How did you achieve that? At least in NorCal, the Cayman GTS is not discounted by any meaningful amount. There are more than enough buyers at MSRP for the available allocations.

I got 3% off when I placed my order in April. If there are ones sitting on floor rooms, I would expect the prices to come down.