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      05-15-2014, 02:24 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by dondula View Post
with all the talk of other models. I am speaking e92 M3 for c63.. If we want to talk about the new M4 carbon drive shaft and other new goodies, we can.

But prefer to focus on the two cars at hand.

The e92 M3 is F1 inspired. High revving engine for one. Carbon fiber components for weight reduction is two, dual clutch gear box is 3.

In the review you posted and in many others, the exterior style looks dated with 80's style graphic. His words not mine. Rest of the car exterior of the c63 is nothing special. performance and style are very important
These c63 and m5 guys will never get it. Just like us m3 and Porsche guys will never understand why they prefer bigger heavier cars. Just let it go.
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      05-15-2014, 02:33 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Blipit_ View Post
I was referring to the shifts, they just felt more aggressive. To me the DCT is very smooth and more seamless.
The shift itself is very fast in the 991 but there is an annoying delay in upshifts when you pull the paddle, my e92 never had that issue. I also felt the mdct to be more engaging, it felt less like an auto IMO.
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      05-15-2014, 02:43 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by trinim3 View Post
But isn't that why the 435i with the M sport pckg exists? To my understanding the M4 is supposed to be catered to the niche, to the enthusiasts. The rest of the lineup already caters to everyone else. While I do look at MPGs it's probably the last thing I'd check on my "important to me" list when looking at a car.

Judging by the plethora of M5/M6s sitting on BMW dealerships I'm not sure this is the best strategy for BMW because the enthusiasts will go to another brand who puts them first. And the average consumer won't really feel the need to buy the M version because if you're judging by logic rather than emotion M cars make little sense.
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      05-15-2014, 03:31 AM   #136
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Just pop a performance exhaust in there and it will suddenly "feel" savage when your ear drums no longer wonder wtf that shitty sound is coming through the speakers. Instead they become captivated by the symphony that is an I6 coming through your open window.

Dull feeling solved. A 6 liter v8 putting down the same time 0-60 as a 3 liter I6, turbo nor not, is somehow just dull? No it's not it just sounds like an old fart so you feel it's dull. What it really is, is an amazing step forward in automotive engineering. It allows us to drive a stunning car that won't rob us of thousands in taxes and gas and will still be relevant and even pivotal in modern and future everyday sportscars (weight savings, CFRP, fuel savings, no power loss even gain).

Auto makers have little choice but to better gas mileage, even in sports cars, I'd rather they perfect it now while the other dinosaur v8s are around and optional. I have no doubt that within 10 years v8's will become almost nonexistent and I/V 6's will be the new rarity available in full sized luxury, utility, and sports cars while the rest move to 4s and diesels.

Oh wait that's already happening
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      05-15-2014, 03:48 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by dondula View Post
I think I am a pretty good person to comment on this being I have owned both a 2013 M3 and a 2013 C63..

I had a 2013 M3 and totaled it. I know it doesn't look that bad from the pics, but the frame of the car was not straight and once that happens on a race car, it will never drive correct again. They set it on a laser jig and measured exactly. I was so upset being it only had a couple thousand miles on it.. just ended it's break in period and I had a little too much fun late at night. road was clear and it was late, no one in sight.. tried my hand at drifting around a round about and forgot traction was off as I had it in launch mode prior.. spun out through a couple light poles in the round about at around 2AM.

anyways, all the dealers were playing games and being they stopped production on the 2013 M3, no one would trade and everyone wanted above sticker from the couple that were left out there..




So I went with a Mercedes c63 coupe to hold me over as this was the closest thing to replace the M with performance wise..



First, let me start with saying that I was a Mercedes fan before I ordered this car. Having read and watched mostly all positive reviews, plus Jeremy Clarkson calling this car an "axe murderer with headlights" I was sold and ordered the car blind.

Mercedes service is terrible. There are rude and snotty people at every luxury car dealer, but the main point is, everything is À la carte with Mercedes. Comes with nothing. Not like bmw that covers oil brakes etc.. Mercedes charges you top dollar and gives you nothing. They are more money in every respect compared to a BMW.. More to insure, More $$ for registration by over 100 bucks.

For a quick example, after 1500 miles, Mercedes said it needed oil. took it to the dealer and they said its normal for these AMG engines to burn oil. I am not driving it hard enough to melt the seals the service guy said. Now if I drove the car any harder, I would kill myself... They charged me 100 bucks to top it off with oil and sent me on my way. You would think that would have been covered, But it wasn't. Oh yes, I put up a fight and got no where...

Not to mention, the failure Mercedes made to fix a couple other problems the car was having. Just bad service all the way around. I was told by a Mercedes salesmen that in Germany, Mercedes head is so big, they don't care what anyone else is doing with their cars because they think they are the best.

The Best? Well, I don't think so. The interior of the C63 in my opinion is very plain and dated.. Almost cheap feeling. No nice finishings or extra details aside from AMG badging in the seats. illuminated AMG door sills I paid a lot for.. The only thing and I mean the ONLY thing this car has going for it is the hand built engine. That I will say is good quality and sounds nice. It is not a 6.3 even tho they mark it as one.. false advertising I say as the engine is a 6.2L.

The c63 is amazing and fast in a straight line.. But so is a mustang 5.0 for a little more than quarter the price.

I was so disappointed from the day I drove off the lot with the c63..
The thing is, BMW gives you so much bang for your buck. Their attention to details far exceeds Mercedes. I am not speaking for all car models, I am simply comparing c63 to M3.

Mercedes c63 has a very uncomfortable ride for a daily driving car compared to the M3. I read that the c63 was better for daily driving and boy were they wrong.

You would think that Mercedes would even give you a rear slip diff standard and they don't.. they want to charge you for every single little thing.. The M3 2013 comes with carbon fiber trim.. Mercedes wants $2800 for carbon. My car came with UGLY wood trim that I had painted custom to black within a week of having the car. Mercedes lease turn in fee is $595 vs BMW's $350..

Not to mention, when Mercedes gets you in a lease, boy do they want to keep you there.. I have broken several leases in my day. This is the first time I have ever leased a car and the starting payoff of the car was not on the discounted price. They calculate the monthly payments based on the discounted price, BUT the payoff on the car the day you sign is for the full MSRP. There for it is next to impossible to get out of the car.

The handling of the C63 is not so great compared to a M3. Very heavy in the rear for the c63..

The trans is HORRIBLE in the C63... Mercedes calls is a "Multi Clutch" Gear box to once again, fool people. It is NOT a dual clutch. The c63 Multi clutch just means you have a wet startup clutch, that's it. There are no two clutches working together. The car is incredibly delayed on shifting and never listens. I kept thinking to myself "how can Mercedes still produce a car like this for this kind of price when everyone else has already switched to newer technology?" BECAUSE THEY CAN!

Lots of plastic on the interior, not much tech, Mercedes kept it very simple with this car. I read so many reviews and comments on forums of how much people love the c63. These people must have never personally owned a BMW because if they did, I feel they would never look back.

So I broke the lease, took a HUGE hit all so I can get into an M4 that is currently at port waiting to be shipped. I don't think I have ever been so unhappy with a performance car. I have had a few and this by far was my least favorite.

So when I watch this review above even though it was a 507 package c63 which only unlocks the engine, different shifter fabric, steering wheel fabric and a vented hood that is just for looks, this guy must be smoking crack to think it's better. with all the toys the M4 has... The c63 is only good for it's engine, has nothing else to offer. Any BMW M is such a well balanced car and not only drives around a track faster, but is quick in a straight line and performs everything very well, The M is the complete package. Who cares about straight line performance?

I would rather have a car that does everything really well, instead of one thing just great.

Really sorry to offend any benz fans out there. I truly think benz pays off many reviewers to bolster the review of their cars.. They are powerful enough to do so and wouldn't be surprised if they did.

Call me crazy, but I feel the M3 I had was the most well rounded car I have ever had.
But dude, you couldn't handle the M3 when you had it.
Everybody already knows about the C63 transmission. did you test drive it? Also, the 6.2 is labelled 6.3 due to the famous 6.3 liter of the past...it is a homage.
BMW labels the turbo 4 cylinder as a 28.
But, from what I hear the Mercedes dealerships do need to up the ante on customer service.
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      05-15-2014, 03:54 AM   #138
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meh, I'll wait for more objective reviews from people like Carlos Lago and Chris Harris
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      05-15-2014, 03:57 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dondula View Post
Thank you for the kind words!

BMW charges us for these "free services" but in the end they off set the price of the car to accommodate these charges. who wants to pay a few grand for performance pads every 7k mi? then you end up granny breaking to stretch a couple more months out of the pads.. with BMW you don't have to worry about that and can really break..

Mercedes has been around too long for their own good and they are very tricky company. IMO they false advertise a lot and bolster a lot that is all black and white. "multi clutch" "6.3L" when there is no "Multi Clutch and you get a 6.2L etc..

3k for a slip diff with benz when BMW gives it away standard.

Mercedes defiantly knows how to make the maximum profit they can from their customers. Benz used to give included services similar to BMW but stopped that a few years ago.

I really think some people just like the name "Benz" and how it makes them feel more over the actual performance when it comes to AMG VS M...

AMG has a long way to go IMO. AMG standard option even upgraded options have wood trim.. 2,800 for CF trim.. I am shocked that benz would even make wood an option in a AMG "Sport car" nothing makes you feel more like an old man or feeling like you're driving a luxury car then wood trim. Nothing race inspired by it at all. They should offer black trim, silver trim, or CF trim and that's it.

New re-designed C Class is due out this summer, AMG version a year to follow. Rumor has it that it will have a V-6 turbo, dual clutch etc.. But even then after they update all their out of date crap, I still wouldn't want to pay more for something I can get for less and IMO done better by M
4.0 turbo V8 is the supposed engine for the upcoming C AMG. What year was your C63?
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      05-15-2014, 04:42 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Don't even worry about it. No offense to the guy, but he is type of guy you meet at cars and coffee and after about 1 minute you realize he can't carry on a technical discussion about cars.
But he knows how to wreck his M3 by trying to drift late at night around a round about and hitting light poles...
This my friends is why BMW owners and particlarly M3 owners get a bad rep.
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      05-15-2014, 05:32 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by clar View Post
If their recent M5 vs Vauxhall VXR8 review was any indication, they will next release another review branding the new M3/M4 the best thing since slice bread...
Errr Pardon the brief intermission. "clar", thanks for stopping buy to provide commentary on the above. Hold the Press......"458 Speciale"?The expression on your face is probably going to something akin to this dude upon delivery I hate to see the old girl go (E92 ///M) , but the new chick's a stunna. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming
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      05-15-2014, 05:57 AM   #142
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this seems to be an honest opinion of the M3/4 engine, and that concern on throttle response does exist after all. Can't wait to test drive one and really find out!
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      05-15-2014, 06:56 AM   #143
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this is a bs review, he keeps ranting about one thing didnt even bother watching to the end
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      05-15-2014, 07:11 AM   #144
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In the beginning of that video, the stats & specs they put up said the M4 gets 32 MPG combined...

I'm not going crazy here am I???
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      05-15-2014, 07:26 AM   #145
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The M3 was always a driver's oriented car. It is a legend that has garnered an incredible number of followers. This car is been in the making since 1985. Mercedes did not wake-up and started making driver's oriented cars until 2008, with the C63. Mercedes gave AMG unprecedented input in the design of the C63 (not counting the SLS). Only time will tell, but the way I see, the gap between M3/M4 and C63 will soon disappear.

On a side note: The only difference between C63-P31 and C63-Edition 507, is cosmetic. Many drivers compared them on MBWorld.
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      05-15-2014, 07:47 AM   #146
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I am not 100% sure but did sutcliffe ever go crazy over any turbo motor? The 911 turbo s to him had crazy power but that was about it, right?
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      05-15-2014, 07:48 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCali E36
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkhanna16
Weird.....he said the benz had better steering and the M had more torque.
Pretty crazy huh?
I think magnetic poles somewhere must have reversed.
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      05-15-2014, 07:52 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinlevrone View Post
I hope you realize that there is also an M3 available. And it looks better than the M4.
Sorry for any confusion. Yes I realize there's an M3. Mine is on order. I agree that it looks better than the M4 as well.
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      05-15-2014, 08:59 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
But he knows how to wreck his M3 by trying to drift late at night around a round about and hitting light poles...
This my friends is why BMW owners and particlarly M3 owners get a bad rep.
I think you're being a little harsh..

As stated, it was 2 AM on a Sunday and no cars in sight. Had a buddy stopped on the other sides exit as a look out. I was attempting to drift around the entire round about. Forgot launch control was engaged. It was an accident that I can afford to make... in the car by myself. Impact happened at lower speed.

What about the hundred's of people in the world with c63's that top their cars out at 170mph on open roads during the day? I feel I was responsible in my situation and the only person at risk was myself.

I wanted to let it rip in my m3 and so I did. Lesson learned and I will make sure my launch control is off when I do it in my M4.

Love when people take a good debate and start throwing personal jabs to help prove a mute point.

I had the c63 and it was heavy, cheap feeling, only impressive in a straight line. But that is just my opinion and said that several times.

Only tried to throw out some key points that benz gives you very little for the price they charge. That was the main point I was trying to prove. Who has best bang for the buck.
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      05-15-2014, 09:13 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car_fan View Post
Errr Pardon the brief intermission. "clar", thanks for stopping buy to provide commentary on the above. Hold the Press......"458 Speciale"?The expression on your face is probably going to something akin to this dude upon delivery I hate to see the old girl go (E92 ///M) , but the new chick's a stunna. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming
Thanks. Truth be told, I had a private viewing of the new M3/M4 right after seeing a speciale prior to its delivery. I like the new M3/M4 a lot and hope to buy a M4 next year. I will need an everyday supercar that's easy to live with yet lots of fun. Nothing does it better than a proper M3/M4
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Last edited by clar; 05-15-2014 at 09:54 AM..
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      05-15-2014, 10:33 AM   #151
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Is just me or does Sutcliffe seem a bit of merc fan in all of His comparisons between the two brands?
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      05-15-2014, 10:45 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by dondula View Post
with all the talk of other models. I am speaking e92 M3 for c63.. If we want to talk about the new M4 carbon drive shaft and other new goodies, we can.

But prefer to focus on the two cars at hand.

The e92 M3 is F1 inspired. High revving engine for one. Carbon fiber components for weight reduction is two, dual clutch gear box is 3.

In the review you posted and in many others, the exterior style looks dated with 80's style graphic. His words not mine. Rest of the car exterior of the c63 is nothing special. performance and style are very important
These c63 and m5 guys will never get it. Just like us m3 and Porsche guys will never understand why they prefer bigger heavier cars. Just let it go.
This
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      05-15-2014, 10:52 AM   #153
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Seems more electric steering vs hydraulic and V8 NA vs I6 turbo comparison.
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      05-15-2014, 11:02 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dondula View Post
Love when people take a good debate and start throwing personal jabs to help prove a mute point.

I had the c63 and it was heavy, cheap feeling, only impressive in a straight line. But that is just my opinion and said that several times.
The irony here is that you're implying the M3 is significantly better in terms of handling and car control, while your own experience says otherwise.
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