Appt confirmed with a BMW NA Engineer

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Meeting him at BMW of Austin Friday morning, want to share the wealth and also ask about other F80 owners who've experienced this pull to the right.

Who else had this pull-right issue?

Please sign up here - if you can give your VIN, even better!

We need to prove this is an issue, this is OUR chance to get a fix!

[DavidGP]

What is this "pull to the right you speak of", when I smash the GO pedal the car seems to pull to the right due to torque. Is this what you mean?

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by DavidGP

What is this "pull to the right you speak of", when I smash the GO pedal the car seems to pull to the right due to torque. Is this what you mean?

Really?

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1354107

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1345680

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1146394

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1273694

And that took me all of 1 minute to pull up

It's a way common issue it seems (unfortunately), one thread even has a lemon'd F80 due to it...

[MadZarBMR]

Thanks for doing this. Definitely looking forward to your results.
My VIN: 5D31491

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by MadZarBMR

Thanks for doing this. Definitely looking forward to your results.
My VIN: 5D31491

Thanks! Will share this with him, as well as the numerous other threads we have going on this issue.

Fingers crossed!

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by DavidGP

What is this "pull to the right you speak of", when I smash the GO pedal the car seems to pull to the right due to torque. Is this what you mean?

Wide tires and slanted roads. I drove someones car who complained about this and thought they were crazy after.

[mischiefbenz]

I've had this issue since I picked up my 2015 F80. The dealer won't consider doing anything unless an alignment is done first. I've done alignments at other other shops and still have the same problem. My VIN P803983.

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Wide tires and slanted roads. I drove someones car who complained about this and thought they were crazy after.

So you're implying that someone who's had:

'10 335i
'11 E90 M3 (running 255/275 on 19's)
'16 F30 340 (running 255 square)
an E36 GTS-3 race car with 285's on all four corners

None of which had any kind of pulling issues like this

Yet this same someone who's been tracking for 10+ years, instructing for 7, advanced instructing and teaching ITS for the last 3 can't tell the difference between road crown and a legit pull to the right?

Not to mention Jess - the sales manager at BMW of Austin who's also an ex-Pro Porsche and BMW racer who's raced at the 24 of Daytona - who drove my car and said "something is wrong, this pull is not normal" and recommended I contact BMW NA is also inept in his diagnosis?

Not to mention there is a thread on this very forum where someone had their car lemon'd for this exact reason - and I'm sure BMW NA simply loves lemon-ing a 70K car! - but *you* know better and it's "just wide tires" and some yahoo's who can't tell the difference. Right...I see....

You're as bad as the shop foreman who said the same until Jess came in and said there's a legit issue.

Appreciate your expertise and input here....no REALLY! /s

[ONE1]

Originally Posted by AustinTrkJunkie

So you're implying that someone who's had:

'10 335i
'11 E90 M3 (running 255/275 on 19's)
'16 F30 340 (running 255 square)
an E36 GTS-3 race car with 285's on all four corners

None of which had any kind of pulling issues like this

Yet this same someone who's been tracking for 10+ years, instructing for 7, advanced instructing and teaching ITS for the last 3 can't tell the difference between road crown and a legit pull to the right?

Not to mention Jess - the sales manager at BMW of Austin who's also an ex-Pro Porsche and BMW racer who's raced at the 24 of Daytona - who drove my car and said "something is wrong, this pull is not normal" and recommended I contact BMW NA is also inept in his diagnosis?

Not to mention there is a thread on this very forum where someone had their car lemon'd for this exact reason - and I'm sure BMW NA simply loves lemon-ing a 70K car! - but *you* know better and it's "just wide tires" and some yahoo's who can't tell the difference. Right...I see....

You're as bad as the shop foreman who said the same until Jess came in and said there's a legit issue.

Appreciate your expertise and input here....no REALLY! /s

You don't have to defend whether this a problem. It's been a problem since 2014 and many people have spoken out about it since then. BMW is well aware of it and the lemon/buyback case you mentioned is not the only one.

People on the forums who don't have this issue won't fully understand it until driving a car with it. If you look at the lengthy thread about this under the General Forum, many are quick to claim it's the road crown, but they are just guessing without knowledge of the problem.

Thanks for posting this thread. Keep doing what you are doing.

[dr.mba]

I have had the pull to the right issue on my F10 since new and I still have the car. It's alot better since I switched my springs and aligned the car but it remains to a subtle degree even with the above measures. There are lengthy threads on the issue on the F10 forums. Thankfully I don't think I have this on the F80. OP is your car ZCP? Please update us on this.

M

[DavidGP]

Originally Posted by AustinTrkJunkie

Really?

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1354107

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1345680

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1146394

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1273694

And that took me all of 1 minute to pull up

It's a way common issue it seems (unfortunately), one thread even has a lemon'd F80 due to it...

Gosh, I had no idea that was a real issue. Thanks for schooling me on how to use the search function though. Keep up the good fight.

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by dr.mba

I have had the pull to the right issue on my F10 since new and I still have the car. It's alot better since I switched my springs and aligned the car but it remains to a subtle degree even with the above measures. There are lengthy threads on the issue on the F10 forums. Thankfully I don't think I have this on the F80. OP is your car ZCP? Please update us on this.

M

Yup, brand new ZCP, just popped 1400 miles. I first reported this at about 200 miles, have had it in for multiple alignments and a camber bearing replacement so far. Alignment numbers are always spot on, which is why I think it's the EPS and not alignment related, guess we'll see.

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by ONE1

You don't have to defend whether this a problem. It's been a problem since 2014 and many people have spoken out about it since then. BMW is well aware of it and the lemon/buyback case you mentioned is not the only one.

People on the forums who don't have this issue won't fully understand it until driving a car with it. If you look at the lengthy thread about this under the General Forum, many are quick to claim it's the road crown, but they are just guessing without knowledge of the problem.

Thanks for posting this thread. Keep doing what you are doing.

Thanks, I might have gone off a little on that poster, appreciate the validation

Simply highly frustrated having this issue on a car that stickered at almost 80K, anyone saying it's road crown or that I'm a n00b who doesn't know what wide tires do just pisses me the hell off

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by DavidGP

Gosh, I had no idea that was a real issue. Thanks for schooling me on how to use the search function though. Keep up the good fight.

No worries, it seems you're not the only one who doesn't know about this issue

[MadZarBMR]

Originally Posted by AustinTrkJunkie

Yup, brand new ZCP, just popped 1400 miles. I first reported this at about 200 miles, have had it in for multiple alignments and a camber bearing replacement so far. Alignment numbers are always spot on, which is why I think it's the EPS and not alignment related, guess we'll see.

Not that we need more validation, but mine does exactly the same thing after 5 alignments at three different performance shops and new front left carrier. All but BMW say this is not normal so I do hope your theory is correct.

BTW - I looked into lemon law in California and it looks like I am too late as here it only covers in warranty items. Alignment is only covered up to 2k miles so if you do find this to be something in EPS you will give me new hope that it can be fixed under warranty or worst case still covered by lemon law.

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by MadZarBMR

Not that we need more validation, but mine does exactly the same thing after 5 alignments at three different performance shops and new front left carrier. All but BMW say this is not normal so I do hope your theory is correct.

BTW - I looked into lemon law in California and it looks like I am too late as here it only covers in warranty items. Alignment is only covered up to 2k miles so if you do find this to be something in EPS you will give me new hope that it can be fixed under warranty or worst case still covered by lemon law.

Here's part of the mail I sent NA and my SA in prep for the appt Friday


One big thing I've noticed is that you can "set" the wheel to center by pushing it left for a sec and it will track straight, but if you're just driving along and release it, it will instantly move the wheel a few degrees right, this becomes more and more pronounced at higher speeds. At 80, it's a pull instantly right if you have not "set" the wheel with that push left. It's like the power steering is wanting to go right unless you "correct" or "set" it to center.

[BitchinManWheels]

Originally Posted by AustinTrkJunkie

Here's part of the mail I sent NA and my SA in prep for the appt Friday


One big thing I've noticed is that you can "set" the wheel to center by pushing it left for a sec and it will track straight, but if you're just driving along and release it, it will instantly move the wheel a few degrees right, this becomes more and more pronounced at higher speeds. At 80, it's a pull instantly right if you have not "set" the wheel with that push left. It's like the power steering is wanting to go right unless you "correct" or "set" it to center.

+1 for my car pulling right.
Multiple alignments, then Dinan suspension, GC plates, new tires, more alignments, still pulls right.
Not sure what you mean by setting/pushing the wheel left then it runs straight. I push the wheel to the left constantly and it still pulls to the right. Could you elaborate?

[YMBdoc]

Originally Posted by AustinTrkJunkie

Meeting him at BMW of Austin Friday morning, want to share the wealth and also ask about other F80 owners who've experienced this pull to the right.

Who else had this pull-right issue?

Please sign up here - if you can give your VIN, even better!

We need to prove this is an issue, this is OUR chance to get a fix!

As you saw my post in another thread that you have posted in, my car also pulled to the right. Had alignment done, they put in back in spec, still pulled to the right. I took it back to the dealer and talked to them about the steering knuckle replacement and they had never heard of it but they wanted to make it right so they ordered one for the right side and replaced it. Still pulled to right. They took the wheels off a new ZCP M3 on lot, put it on my car, still pulled to right. Talked to BMWNA engineer, who acknowledged that there have been several cars affected, put a new steering knuckle on the left side, just picked up the car and it is much much much better. Drives like it should now. Tomorrow will be the big test as I will be back on the roads I first noticed it on, I will post update. The foreman of the shop was great, very picky and would not release my car to me until he felt it was right and then had me drive it with him. There is hope for you.

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by YMBdoc

As you saw my post in another thread that you have posted in, my car also pulled to the right. Had alignment done, they put in back in spec, still pulled to the right. I took it back to the dealer and talked to them about the steering knuckle replacement and they had never heard of it but they wanted to make it right so they ordered one for the right side and replaced it. Still pulled to right. They took the wheels off a new ZCP M3 on lot, put it on my car, still pulled to right. Talked to BMWNA engineer, who acknowledged that there have been several cars affected, put a new steering knuckle on the left side, just picked up the car and it is much much much better. Drives like it should now. Tomorrow will be the big test as I will be back on the roads I first noticed it on, I will post update. The foreman of the shop was great, very picky and would not release my car to me until he felt it was right and then had me drive it with him. There is hope for you.

This is very helpful, thanks for the update and please post here once you've put some miles on it!

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by BitchinManWheels

+1 for my car pulling right.
Multiple alignments, then Dinan suspension, GC plates, new tires, more alignments, still pulls right.
Not sure what you mean by setting/pushing the wheel left then it runs straight. I push the wheel to the left constantly and it still pulls to the right. Could you elaborate?

Yah, perhaps that was not the best written

Basically - and this *only* works on the highway at 50 or 60+, not around town - what I do is take the wheel and "set it" by pushing left for a sec once I've got the car going straight. The wheel seems to stick in that position and stops pulling right.

This only works until I have to do another steering input - lane change, the road curves, etc. - but it's at least a brief respite from having to constantly add left steering input. That's what makes me think it's the EPS and not suspension or alignment related.

Rather the EPS is mis-factored and thinks it's going straight when in fact it's going right. What really adds to this - and this IS even at street speeds - is that when I'm cruising along - or sitting in traffic - and let go of the wheel, it pops a couple of degrees to the right.

Anyway, we'll see tomorrow, got this email today:

This is an automated reminder for your service appointment on February 24, 2017 at 11:30 AM. Thank you for taking the time to schedule your appointment in advance.

Confirmation Code: X017X3JF38
Date and Time: February 24, 2017 at 11:30 AM
Advisor: LUIS PEINADO
Vehicle: 2017 BMW M3
VIN: WBS8M9C53H5G83597
The following services have been selected for this appointment:
Repair Services: CHECK ALIGNMENT - CLIENT STATES VEHICLE PULLS RIGHT AT HIGHER SPEEDS WHEN LETTING GO OF THE STEERING WHEEL(SEE HISTORY)
Appointment Notes: BL - TO VISIT WITH FACTORY REP

[YMBdoc]

Job # 1 Labor Total: $ 0.00
CLEINT STATES THE VEHICLE IS PULLING TO THE RIGHT.
SPECIALORDERED PARTS ARE HERE. SEE CONRAD
Cause: PREVIOUS VIST FOUND THE FRONT CAMBER LEFT AND RIGHT WERE NOTEVEN, BUT WERE STILL IN SPEC. NEW SWIVEL BEARING WAS ORDEREDTO ADJUST CAMBER.
Correction: REPLACED THE RIGHT FRONT SWIVEL BEARING WITH -30 PART.PERFORMED ALIGNMENT AND ADJUSTED THE FRONT TOE. PERFORMEDSTEERING START-UP. TEST DROVE THE VEHICLE AND IT WAS STILLDRIFTING RIGHT. SWAPPED ALL 4 WHEELS WITH A KNOWN GOOD SET.TEST DROVE AND IT WAS STILL DRIFTING. REINSTALLED ORIGINALWHEELS. CONTACTED BMW AND WAS GIVEN A RECOMMEND PROCEDURE.REMOVED THE NEW SWIVEL BEARING AND INSTALLED ORIGINAL.REPLACED THE LEFT SWIVEL BEARING WITH +30. PERFORMEDALIGNMENT AND ADJUSTED FRONT TOE. TEST DROVE THE VEHICLE ANDTHE VEHICLE WAS NOW TRACKING STRAIGHT. SHOP FOREMAN RODECUSTOMER AND HE WAS SATISFIED.
Part Number Part Description Parts Total: $ 0.00
BM33-32-6-768-884 HEXAGON NUT WITH CO
BM07-11-9-905-418 HEX BOLT WITH WASHE
BM31-21-7-853-640 SWIVEL BEARING, CAM
BM31-21-7-853-637 PIVOT BEARING, CAMB
BM31-20-6-872-920 ROUND COLLAR SCREW
BM33-30-6-787-062 COMBINATION NUT
BM31-20-6-872-920 ROUND COLLAR SCREW
BM07-11-9-905-418 HEX BOLT WITH WASHE
BM33-30-6-787-062 COMBINATION NUT

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by YMBdoc

Job # 1 Labor Total: $ 0.00
CLEINT STATES THE VEHICLE IS PULLING TO THE RIGHT.
SPECIALORDERED PARTS ARE HERE. SEE CONRAD
Cause: PREVIOUS VIST FOUND THE FRONT CAMBER LEFT AND RIGHT WERE NOTEVEN, BUT WERE STILL IN SPEC. NEW SWIVEL BEARING WAS ORDEREDTO ADJUST CAMBER.
Correction: REPLACED THE RIGHT FRONT SWIVEL BEARING WITH -30 PART.PERFORMED ALIGNMENT AND ADJUSTED THE FRONT TOE. PERFORMEDSTEERING START-UP. TEST DROVE THE VEHICLE AND IT WAS STILLDRIFTING RIGHT. SWAPPED ALL 4 WHEELS WITH A KNOWN GOOD SET.TEST DROVE AND IT WAS STILL DRIFTING. REINSTALLED ORIGINALWHEELS. CONTACTED BMW AND WAS GIVEN A RECOMMEND PROCEDURE.REMOVED THE NEW SWIVEL BEARING AND INSTALLED ORIGINAL.REPLACED THE LEFT SWIVEL BEARING WITH +30. PERFORMEDALIGNMENT AND ADJUSTED FRONT TOE. TEST DROVE THE VEHICLE ANDTHE VEHICLE WAS NOW TRACKING STRAIGHT. SHOP FOREMAN RODECUSTOMER AND HE WAS SATISFIED.
Part Number Part Description Parts Total: $ 0.00
BM33-32-6-768-884 HEXAGON NUT WITH CO
BM07-11-9-905-418 HEX BOLT WITH WASHE
BM31-21-7-853-640 SWIVEL BEARING, CAM
BM31-21-7-853-637 PIVOT BEARING, CAMB
BM31-20-6-872-920 ROUND COLLAR SCREW
BM33-30-6-787-062 COMBINATION NUT
BM31-20-6-872-920 ROUND COLLAR SCREW
BM07-11-9-905-418 HEX BOLT WITH WASHE
BM33-30-6-787-062 COMBINATION NUT

Just sent to my SA, thanks a ton for sharing!