So I anti seized my wheel and stud...

[NewF82m4]

I used the copper stuff on the studs ( I did the conversion... Hand threaded then torqued to 27 ft lbs) and the back of the wheel/hub plate... I didn't think it made that much of a difference but obviously after doing some research after someone told me that messes with torque spec, I realized the mistake. I torqued to 105, and noticed minimal rounding on the stud threads near where end of the lug would be inside the seat (m14x 1.25) when I removed the wheel to wipe off the copper anti seize.

I've since removed as much of the anti seize on the studs, lugs and hub face and everything looked clean but with the residue still in the lug threads, I torqued to 95 ft lbs. I want to hit it again with more brake cleaner and make sure the surfaces are 100% anti seize residue free but I don't want to keep stressing the stud or hub threads

Question is: how bad is it or am I just making this a bigger deal than it really is?? I'm neurotic when it comes to this kind of stuff

[hC1001]

Originally Posted by NewF82m4

I used the copper stuff on the studs ( I did the conversion... Hand threaded then torqued to 27 ft lbs) and the back of the wheel/hub plate... I didn't think it made that much of a difference but obviously after doing some research after someone told me that messes with torque spec, I realized the mistake. I torqued to 105, and noticed minimal rounding on the stud threads near where end of the lug would be inside the seat (m14x 1.25) when I removed the wheel to wipe off the copper anti seize.

I've since removed as much of the anti seize on the studs, lugs and hub face and everything looked clean but with the residue still in the lug threads, I torqued to 95 ft lbs. I want to hit it again with more brake cleaner and make sure the surfaces are 100% anti seize residue free but I don't want to keep stressing the stud or hub threads

Question is: how bad is it? I'm neurotic when it comes to this kind of stuff

Ok... So normally, ppl use a light drop of 271 red loctite on the threads going into the hub, torque to 15lbs. I hope you didnt use anti seize there. You can use anti seize for the hub face where is contacts the back of the wheel face. If you put anti seize on the threads that go into the hub or where the lug nuts screw on, hit it with brake cleaner a couple times and wipe off with a paper towel to remove the anti seize.

You didnt do any damage... You dont want to over torque the lug nuts because it might shear the studs when things get hot and expand. You dont normally get the parts hot enough on the street, its more of a concern for track ppl. The red loctite is used because sometimes when you are backing out the lug nuts, it can also back out the stud from the hub if there is no loctite used.

[NewF82m4]

Originally Posted by hC1001

Ok... So normally, ppl use a light drop of 271 red loctite on the threads going into the hub, torque to 15lbs. I hope you didnt use anti seize there. You can use anti seize for the hub face where is contacts the back of the wheel face. If you put anti seize on the threads that go into the hub or where the lug nuts screw on, hit it with brake cleaner a couple times and wipe off with a paper towel to remove the anti seize.

You didnt do any damage... You dont want to over torque the lug nuts because it might shear the studs when things get hot and expand. You dont normally get the parts hot enough on the street, its more of a concern for track ppl. The red loctite is used because sometimes when you are backing out the lug nuts, it can also back out the stud from the hub if there is no loctite used.

All the install videos for the studs said the same thing

Apply loctite (blue, medium strength, but comes in a little red tube) to the short part that goes inside the hub ✓
Turn by hand all the way ✓
Torque stud to hub at 25-30 ft lbs✓ ... I did 27 so it's right in between
Install wheel...


Anti seize only applied the to stud and mating surface area (which has been wiped off recently)
Where the lugs are used... I'll post a pick when I'm at a computer.. can't do it off my phone

[hC1001]

Red 271 is made for wheel studs and is normally supplied with wheel stud kits. It has holding power and heat resistance designed for wheel studs.

If the manufacturer provided the blue loctite and also recommended 25-30lbs i guess you should follow their instructions. If this is not a major brand or well known manufacturer, I would not follow their instructions. For one thing, blue loctite is usually weaker and doesnt have heat resistance. 25-30lbs is a lot of torque for the studs and might be very hard to remove when that time comes...

Using red 271 and torquing to 15lbs, gives me problems removing old studs using double nut method. Now i use a light drop of 271 where it coats maybe 3 threads.

[NewF82m4]

Originally Posted by hC1001

Red 271 is made for wheel studs and is normally supplied with wheel stud kits. It has holding power and heat resistance designed for wheel studs.

If the manufacturer provided the blue loctite and also recommended 25-30lbs i guess you should follow their instructions. If this is not a major brand or well known manufacturer, I would not follow their instructions. For one thing, blue loctite is usually weaker and doesnt have heat resistance. 25-30lbs is a lot of torque for the studs and might be very hard to remove when that time comes...

Using red 271 and torquing to 15lbs, gives me problems removing old studs using double nut method. Now i use a light drop of 271 where it coats maybe 3 threads.

It's the motorsport hardware kit I used... Every install video... And threads on here said 25 to 30 ft lbs... So that's what I went with

[melanthius]

Maybe it's just me, but I have never used anti-seize on lugs, and I've always been OK.

I don't think I've ever gotten my car back from a shop where they used it either.

I have used anti-sieze in a laboratory environment when working with fasteners that get to extreme temperatures, for example, screws that are used to fasten parts onto a threaded metal block that is directly heated to several hundred degrees C.

I have seen a few threads around here though discussing it, I just don't think it is needed, and it adds confusion to what torque to use.

To get more accurate torque for your lugs, I highly recommend project kics lugs, they have a conical washer that spins freely where the lug mates against the wheel. This allows the threaded part of the lug to move against the threaded stud, without dragging against the conical bore at the mating surface of the wheel, (most lugs drag like this). The result is more accurate torque applied to the actual threaded component of the lug, and less torque being hidden in dragging the lug. It also better protects that conical bore of the wheels against damage. They are very sturdy, good looking, just an all around high quality product.

[NewF82m4]

Originally Posted by melanthius

Maybe it's just me, but I have never used anti-seize on lugs, and I've always been OK.

I don't think I've ever gotten my car back from a shop where they used it either.

I have used anti-sieze in a laboratory environment when working with fasteners that get to extreme temperatures, for example, screws that are used to fasten parts onto a threaded metal block that is directly heated to several hundred degrees C.

I have seen a few threads around here though discussing it, I just don't think it is needed, and it adds confusion to what torque to use.

To get more accurate torque for your lugs, I highly recommend project kics lugs, they have a conical washer that spins freely where the lug mates against the wheel. This allows the threaded part of the lug to move against the threaded stud, without dragging against the conical bore at the mating surface of the wheel, (most lugs drag like this). The result is more accurate torque applied to the actual threaded component of the lug, and less torque being hidden in dragging the lug. It also better protects that conical bore of the wheels against damage. They are very sturdy, good looking, just an all around high quality product.

I'll look into project kicks lugs as long as they're not aluminium... The MH lugs I have are cold steel... I was originally thinking about the anti seize because I live in Canada and we get snow, humidity and all kinds of weird weather and sh*t falling out of the sky.

I read about lubed vs non lubed torque spec now... But me not having an engineering background.. just wanted to make sure my lugs don't weld themselves onto the studs. Hence why I've torqued to 95 lbs this time around... I'll check up on it Ina few days with my wrench set to 100 ft lbs see if it clicks right away.

[melanthius]

No, Project Kics are not aluminum. They are quite over-engineered for the task, which in this case is just what you'd want.

Just as a couple of more examples, just did a quick google check, Permatex and Tire Rack, 2 very reputable sources, say not to use anti-sieze on the lug threads. Of course you will always find people who disagree.

For reference I bought them from EAS. No affiliation

Project Kics - Iconix R40 Open End Racing Lug Nut Set

SKU: PJK003

[NewF82m4]

Originally Posted by melanthius

No, Project Kics are not aluminum. They are quite over-engineered for the task, which in this case is just what you'd want.

Just as a couple of more examples, just did a quick google check, Permatex and Tire Rack, 2 very reputable sources, say not to use anti-sieze on the lug threads. Of course you will always find people who disagree.

For reference I bought them from EAS. No affiliation

Project Kics - Iconix R40 Open End Racing Lug Nut Set

SKU: PJK003

I don't disagree with the research ... I just didn't think this was such a comprehensive topic so I didn't think to look into it ... I definitely know better now.

As for the lugs.. I like the design, I'll probably pick them up later on when I'll be thinking about tracking... For now I just want to enjoy the car for what it is.. I haven't had a car like m4 (in terms of price or performance) before, which is why I'm getting neurotic about these little nuances

[AND1_M3]

So for Future Classic 54mm studs what are the torque specs and for the Project Kics? I cant seem to find the info

[NewF82m4]

Originally Posted by AND1_M3

So for Future Classic 54mm studs what are the torque specs and for the Project Kics? I cant seem to find the info

Have you tried contacting them?

I think for the M12 shank it's like 15 to 20 ft lbs, M14 shank seems to be 25 to 30 ft lbs

But like I said, verify with supplier/ manufacturer

The 54mm look nice... I don't think I'd run spacers so if I had to change them, it'd be those

[AND1_M3]

Originally Posted by NewF82m4

Have you tried contacting them?

I think for the M12 shank it's like 15 to 20 ft lbs, M14 shank seems to be 25 to 30 ft lbs

But like I said, verify with supplier/ manufacturer

The 54mm look nice... I don't think I'd run spacers so if I had to change them, it'd be those

Yeah got those cause I got the Project kics lugs with caps. I have 15 mm spacers on my stock 666 wheels with longer studs right now. Just not sure if 30 ft lbs is the normal

[x.shell]

Make sure if you use the Red Loctite, use just a drop. Don't use too much because when comes time to remove them, you might need a blow torch. Ask me how I know.

In terms of the Project Kics R40... the nut is steel, but I'm not sure what the conical seat is made of. Honestly though, they are the best nuts available if you like your wheels. Because of that conical seat, there is zero marring on the wheels. AND they come with a wheel lock.

I've searched everything in a M14x1.25 and M14x1.5 size nut. None have the features of the PK R40. Believe me, I wish we have more options.

[AND1_M3]

Originally Posted by x.shell

Make sure if you use the Red Loctite, use just a drop. Don't use too much because when comes time to remove them, you might need a blow torch. Ask me how I know.

In terms of the Project Kics R40... the nut is steel, but I'm not sure what the conical seat is made of. Honestly though, they are the best nuts available if you like your wheels. Because of that conical seat, there is zero marring on the wheels. AND they come with a wheel lock.

I've searched everything in a M14x1.25 and M14x1.5 size nut. None have the features of the PK R40. Believe me, I wish we have more options.

Yeah I know about having to heat up bolts and stuff lol pain in da butt. yeah that why I got them I heard they were good.

[melanthius]

For my wheel studs I was not too precious about install, I did not have a hex bit for my torque wrench so I just cranked down on it and made goodentight with an Allen wrench plus blue loctite. Macht Schnell 75mm and open ended lugs.

I figure it is pretty hard to overtorque these with an Allen wrench

Photo shown with no wheel spacer. Looks like mayyyybe you could put a lug with a cap on there.

[NewF82m4]

Originally Posted by melanthius

For my wheel studs I was not too precious about install, I did not have a hex bit for my torque wrench so I just cranked down on it and made goodentight with an Allen wrench plus blue loctite. Macht Schnell 75mm and open ended lugs.

I figure it is pretty hard to overtorque these with an Allen wrench

Photo shown with no wheel spacer. Looks like mayyyybe you could put a lug with a cap on there.

How you liking the apex wheels?

Eventually I might want a set of wheels and I was looking at the advan gt5 but I think for the money that might be overkill. For the same buck you can 2 pc rotors all round and get a set Apex wheels.

[NewF82m4]

I dont know if you see the lighter area of the thread near the rotor... thats where the tip of the lug reaches inside the wheel.... What are your thoughts?

[melanthius]

Originally Posted by NewF82m4

How you liking the apex wheels?

Eventually I might want a set of wheels and I was looking at the advan gt5 but I think for the money that might be overkill. For the same buck you can 2 pc rotors all round and get a set Apex wheels.

Apex wheels are a great value for the money compared to many options. Very high quality product and good team, and local.

My heart lies with Rays / volks but I wasn't a huge fan of the exact sizes and offsets they offer for this chassis.

[NewF82m4]

Update:

bought motorsport hardware 14.25 to 14.5 thread 78mm length +
12mm spacers

I'll be cleaning the wheel backpad and mating surface on the rotor thoroughly

[x.shell]

Originally Posted by NewF82m4

Update:

bought motorsport hardware 14.25 to 14.5 thread 78mm length
12mm spacers

I'll cleaning the wheel backpack and mating surface on the rotor thoroughly

Awesome. I have the exact set too that are new in the bag still. I just haven't found any lug nuts to go with it. I keep trying to buy Project Kics R40 in M14 1.5 but they are never in stock and have a 3 month lead time.

[AND1_M3]

Originally Posted by x.shell

Awesome. I have the exact set too that are new in the bag still. I just haven't found any lug nuts to go with it. I keep trying to buy Project Kics R40 in M14 1.5 but they are never in stock and have a 3 month lead time.

Check with @Kevin European Auto Source

[NewF82m4]

Originally Posted by x.shell

Awesome. I have the exact set too that are new in the bag still. I just haven't found any lug nuts to go with it. I keep trying to buy Project Kics R40 in M14 1.5 but they are never in stock and have a 3 month lead time.

I got my set with the standard stubby nuts but I'll those are temporary .. I'll get the r40's in a few weeks... Can't go nuts spending money lol (no pun intended)