Is there a definitive answer on mp has?

[matty088]

Considering MP HAS as a Christmas present to myself. My car is zcp with cs coding. When I flashed the cs coding I think it upgraded the comfort by reducing compression while increasing rebound. I think the ride is softer but bounces less. This is purely subjective. Indont think there is hard data out there that shows exactly what cs coding does. But to me it made the ride less firm. I’d prefer to firm it up alittle

I am considering MP HAS. Everything I read says it lowers the car nicely and could add more comfort. I am not sure I want this. Does anyone know what the spring rates are for the mp has kit vs ZCP? It seems those with civics say the MP has upgrades the firmnes and reduces roll but those with ZCP say it just lowers the car with no impact to handling. It kind of makes sense I guess.

Pretty shocking that these kits don’t tell you the spring rates. Has Anyone uncovered the specs of the kit?

[CanAutM3]

You won't get a "definitive answer". The MP HAS have a variable spring rate in front, which makes it impossible to represent with a single number and difficult to directly compare with the base or CP spring rates. Note that the simple fact of lowering the car will improve cornering grip since a lower car will transfer less weight lateraly when cornering. Further, the fact that the MP-HAS is height adjustable, allows to corner balance the car and also allows to fine tune the handling balance by playing with the front and rear roll centers. I've found that the MP-HAS have noticeably improved the handling on my M4cs.

[ntg44]

If you want firmer, get Swift springs. I've never driven on them, but my Macht Schnell springs rode like garbage. Bouncy as hell.

Another firm option that will hook like hell in all scenarios is Bilstein B16 Damptronic. For the price, it's worth taking a look at.

My list of suspensions on my non-CP car was stock -> MS springs -> B16D -> MP HAS.
MP HAS completely craps on my MS springs - you definitely get what you pay for here. Not nearly as good as B16D but I was looking for more comfort, so needed to compromise somewhere.

[avantix]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

You won't get a "definitive answer". The MP HAS have a variable spring rate in front, which makes it impossible to represent with a single number and difficult to directly compare with the base or CP spring rates. Note that the simple fact of lowering the car will improve cornering grip since a lower car will transfer less weight lateraly when cornering. Further, the fact that the MP-HAS is height adjustable, allows to corner balance the car and also allows to fine tune the handling balance by playing with the front and rear roll centers. I've found that the MP-HAS have noticeably improved the handling on my M4cs.

Great explanation. Got my M HAS kit and debating whether I ride out the 4x4 look on my car until March or install it now along with camber plates. Are you on maximum drop on your springs? I love the stance of your car with almost no wheel gap.

[allinon72]

There's no way the HAS kit doesn't improve handling and driving dynamics, even if it's just a reduction in body roll. But you'll likely feel more than that. We often talk very one dimensionally about the changes in ride and handling, but the HAS kit changes the feel of the car in a way that's hard to explain. Best way to describe it is the ride is firmer but it's more complient and less crashy over bumps. Based on the testimonials in the large MP HAS thread, I doubt you'll be disappointed.

[knightarmor]

The firmware has alot to do with this as well. I doubt there is a "definitive" answer on that.
Off the showroom floor my ZCP suspension felt extremely firm and as most everyone else describes, bouncy at times, and out of control going over fast hills. Looking back it was uncomfortable and to put it simply, it rode like crap.

BEFORE I installed the MPHAS I had the firmware updated at the dealer (still ZCP suspension firmware but they update the whole system) and it transformed the car, all of it. Throttle response was better, suspension compression and rebound were greatly improved. It became a comfortable firm yet soft ride. Very flat and controlled through the turns, so much so I was hesitant to install the MPHAS because I didn't want to screw it up. BUT, I had driven the ZCP F80 with MPHAS at a BMW track days event and loved it and wanted my F80 to ride like that. I installed the MPHAS and have not regretted it.

Is there something still to be desired? Perhaps, compared to my FWD 90% caged track car the F80 could be better, but it's not a full fledged race car nor do I want it to be. I'm now just playing with wheel and tire combinations.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by allinon72

There's no way the HAS kit doesn't improve handling and driving dynamics, even if it's just a reduction in body roll. But you'll likely feel more than that. We often talk very one dimensionally about the changes in ride and handling, but the HAS kit changes the feel of the car in a way that's hard to explain. Best way to describe it is the ride is firmer but it's more complient and less crashy over bumps. Based on the testimonials in the large MP HAS thread, I doubt you'll be disappointed.

Don’t confuse weight transfer and roll

[matty088]

Let me add this for clarity. I think the car has more roll with the cs tune in the ZCP hardware versus the off the shelf ZCP coding. I thought that from day one. I think it’s mostly in the rear. Though, It definitely feels more composed in elevation changes and rougher road. So I Am
Considering mphas. It’s just a high price to pay to lower the front .75 inches. The rear ride height is already perfect. I don’t think I can justify it unless there is an upgrade to handling, mainly reduced body roll and a tighter feel. So that’s my question.

And for context. As far as track time. I do an event a year. I don’t have enough experience to fully extract what this car can do. So the purpose isn’t to shave a second off my time around lime rock. It’s just to make it feel more crisp and sporty on the road.

Thanks for all the comments thus far.

[domino_z]

i'd swap out the shocks before springs

the mp has springs are stiffer than zcp, so if the zcp is already uncomfortable, mp has will be ever worse, not to mention you're shortening stroke of a compromised shock

the issue with M cars has always been the shocks, they persist with these crap sachs dampeners...and don't get me started on the poor mcpherson sturt design

put a set of bilstein b6's in it with oe springs for better dampening, or go full baller tractive suspension (i know a bloke selling his hahaha)

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by avantix

Great explanation. Got my M HAS kit and debating whether I ride out the 4x4 look on my car until March or install it now along with camber plates. Are you on maximum drop on your springs? I love the stance of your car with almost no wheel gap.

No, I am not all the way down, I'd say about mid way. I can share my ride height settings when I get access to them if you wish. I had to doodle a little to get it right because I had the front set a little too low relative to the rear, which limited corner exit traction. Raising the front a little (by 6mm) relative to my original HAS setting helped in that respect. That's one thing that's great with the HAS, is that you can relatively easily play with the ride height to fine tune the handling balance .

[avantix]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

No, I am not all the way down, I'd say about mid way. I can share my ride height settings when I get access to them if you wish. I had to doodle a little to get it right because I had the front set a little too low relative to the rear, which limited corner exit traction. Raising the front a little (by 6mm) relative to my original HAS setting helped in that respect. That's one thing that's great with the HAS, is that you can relatively easily play with the ride height to fine tune the handling balance .

Thanks I would really appreciate it if you would share those settings, I'm looking for the right balance of functionality and aesthetics and it looks like you've already done the heavy lifting . Did you corner balance?

[matty088]

what do gc camber plates do?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by matty088

what do gc camber plates do?

They allow front camber adjustments, which is not adjustable with the OE top plates. They are not required for car that doesn’t see regular track use.

[DavidStr]

what about the Ground Control HAS kit? linear spring rate and you can select your rate too( within a certain limit)

[jshahm]

Originally Posted by domino_z

i'd swap out the shocks before springs

the mp has springs are stiffer than zcp, so if the zcp is already uncomfortable, mp has will be ever worse, not to mention you're shortening stroke of a compromised shock

the issue with M cars has always been the shocks, they persist with these crap sachs dampeners...and don't get me started on the poor mcpherson sturt design

put a set of bilstein b6's in it with oe springs for better dampening, or go full baller tractive suspension (i know a bloke selling his hahaha)

tell me more (about the tractive suspension seller )

[domino_z]

Originally Posted by jshahm

tell me more (about the tractive suspension seller )

hahaha

i have to remove my tractives as i need stock height

bit of a faff, but cliffs, they're coming out earlier than i planned

[RevNev]

Originally Posted by matty088

Let me add this for clarity. I think the car has more roll with the cs tune in the ZCP hardware versus the off the shelf ZCP coding. I thought that from day one. I think it’s mostly in the rear. Though, It definitely feels more composed in elevation changes and rougher road. So I Am
Considering mphas. It’s just a high price to pay to lower the front .75 inches. The rear ride height is already perfect. I don’t think I can justify it unless there is an upgrade to handling, mainly reduced body roll and a tighter feel. So that’s my question.

And for context. As far as track time. I do an event a year. I don’t have enough experience to fully extract what this car can do. So the purpose isn’t to shave a second off my time around lime rock. It’s just to make it feel more crisp and sporty on the road.

Thanks for all the comments thus far.

I converted my ZCP to CS with the exception of Eibach V1 springs that are slightly softer than CS springs with similar front to rear spring rates bias. Stock ZCP with 20" front wheels feels stiffer than CS with sharper steering response on smooth roads at low speed giving the average road car driver the impression that a ZCP is a better handling car than the CS. The CS setup is more comfortable in efficiency mode on bumpy roads at moderate speed. Personally I think ZCP is too stiff and jiggly with the 20" front wheels for a comfortable cruise.

Start pushing the ZCP and it understeers and skips on bumps in high speed corners and in fact, it feels nervous with limited rebound dampening and feels worse in sports+ mode. The CS setup consisting of 19" front wheels, CS shock coding and non-ZCP front sway bay which is lighter than the ZCP bar, the handling difference at high speed on smooth corners and bumps is like chalk and cheese. The CS setup inspires far more confidence and predictability to drive the car harder and faster than the ZCP setup.

As I expected, BMW didn't alter the CS from ZCP specs to slow it down on a race track when driven at 10/10ths, but you need to drive it hard and fast to feel the difference otherwise, a stock ZCP does feel sharper and a potentially better handling car on smooth roads at low speed. It's when you push the ZCP if you get it wrong, it's going to bite you with unpredictability.

Power down's a lot better with the CS setup with traction control off and it doesn't tend to understeer at all in the corners I was getting understeer with the ZCP setup and can also carry higher corner speed. I'd say if anyone thinks the ZCP setup is better than CS, they're not driving the car hard enough to benefit from the CS handling refinements.

I think a CS HAS setup is likely a great setup for road and track without the negative effects associated with heavier springs and aftermarket coil over shocks unless the car is solely track dedicated.

[calubi]

Speaking of the CS EDC settings and updates, which firmware version is needed for this? Any chance a 2016 M3 already has the necessary updates? I'd like to check my version in esys to see if this is possible without a trip to the dealer.