bootmod3 for BMW F series Vehicles - General Discussion

[chewbakam4]

How are you throwing it away when that factory file becomes your stock map to switch to if you want to for service or what have you? That's the beauty of bm3. You can always go back to literally what you had before in like a minute.

[dmk08]

Are most of you guys also buying the obd device or just using laptops?

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Are most of you guys also buying the obd device or just using laptops?

More people are due to ease of leaving the device in the car and never forgetting to charge (laptop/tablet)

Originally Posted by chewbakam4

How are you throwing it away when that factory file becomes your stock map to switch to if you want to for service or what have you? That's the beauty of bm3. You can always go back to literally what you had before in like a minute.

+1 & only takes a minute 25seconds

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by dmk08

This weights heavy on my mind when I think about flash tuning. It kind of feels like you're throwing away a big part of the ZCP upgrade which is the great base tune (much better than std) with the burbles and roar already included. I worry that I won't like the implementation of burbles as well as I like them on the ZCP.

I think it's a solid product especially for non-zcp cars. However, if delta of the gains around 50whp range for the ZCP (stage 1), I'm not sure if it's worth risking your warranty. That's why I'm really curious to see a ZCP dynoed with bm3. Have you pulled the trigger yet?

[Reach]

You'll like it. You really will. It's smooth as butter and my burbles are at GTS levels.

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by cntzl

This is what I was expecting to hear. The reason I asked was because I have seen many ZCPs make 440+ rwhp on Dynojet. The Non-ZCP that was dynoed in one of the first posts make 407rwhp (Although there are examples of non-zcps making 420+ rwhp). So, since the final output will be the same for zcp and non-zcp, the advertised gains will not be near 100whp/100lb-ft for ZCPs. Although the final output will not be any different for ZCPs, I still would like to see the delta of the gain. That's what I'm interested in.

If any ZCP owner dynoed his car with or without a baseline, it would be great if you can share the results with us.

You're overthinking this. And you're comparing irrelevant data (random cars' dyno plots). You can expect the same gains on non-ZCP vs ZCP throughout the power band with maybe a slight narrowing of the delta at the top end due to the remapped ZCP tune.

In your last post, you're talking about a 50WHP gain for the Comp Pack with a flash vs 100WHP on the non-ZCP. That huge discrepancy just simply isn't going to happen. They will be very close. The ZCP is mostly a cosmetic package with a few tweaks to the suspension and tune; it's not a magical, unicorn dusted half-GTS. Although if it was, then the price bump for the package would be more than worth it.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

You're overthinking this. And you're comparing irrelevant data (random cars' dyno plots). You can expect the same gains on non-ZCP vs ZCP throughout the power band with maybe a slight narrowing of the delta at the top end due to the remapped ZCP tune.

In your last post, you're talking about a 50WHP gain for the Comp Pack with a flash vs 100WHP on the non-ZCP. That huge discrepancy just simply isn't going to happen. They will be very close. The ZCP is mostly a cosmetic package with a few tweaks to the suspension and tune; it's not a magical, unicorn dusted half-GTS. Although if it was, then the price bump for the package would be more than worth it.

You are right. I'm probably overthinking but I was just curious to see the delta of the gains on a ZCP. Specifically the max gain rather than peak gain. Based on how many ZCPs got bm3, I thought it would be fairly easy to find one dynoed at least after tune but I guess we don't have one yet. Again, this is just out of curiosity.

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by cntzl

You are right. I'm probably overthinking but I was just curious to see the delta of the gains on a ZCP. Specifically the max gain rather than peak gain. Based on how many ZCPs got bm3, I thought it would be fairly easy to find one dynoed at least after tune but I guess we don't have one yet. Again, this is just out of curiosity.

For sure. You'd need to see sample ZCP's where the same car dyno'ed stock, flashed Stage 1 or 2, and re-dyno'ed same day/same conditions. The deltas there would give you the best indication. Comparing different ZCP cars across the board, or a non-ZCP to ZCP, just won't show you the proper information.

[Reach]

Sure it will. We've got enough dynos to know what a ZCP makes, and we know what BM3's flashes make. What's the hangup?

If you're focused on the peak delta, you're either chasing a dream or you're not looking at the whole picture. The ZCP and the non-ZCP are the same car engine wise; one just comes with a better factory tune.

[Euromotive Performance]

Data inspires confidence.
Sure you can extrapolate the numbers, but seeing is believing.

Delta numbers get you closer to seeing the whole picture, and the area under the curve on a ZCP will be different from the standard model.

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by Reach

Sure it will. We've got enough dynos to know what a ZCP makes, and we know what BM3's flashes make. What's the hangup?

If you're focused on the peak delta, you're either chasing a dream or you're not looking at the whole picture. The ZCP and the non-ZCP are the same car engine wise; one just comes with a better factory tune.

0% useful to compare two different cars on different dynos. There's absolutely no relevance in comparing that "data" unless you're after generalities and maybes.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by Reach

Sure it will. We've got enough dynos to know what a ZCP makes, and we know what BM3's flashes make. What's the hangup?

If you're focused on the peak delta, you're either chasing a dream or you're not looking at the whole picture. The ZCP and the non-ZCP are the same car engine wise; one just comes with a better factory tune.

I stated several times what I'm focused on in my previous posts. I'm interested in max gain (not peak) or the gain achieved throughout the rev range. What is so difficult to understand?

"We've got enough dynos to know what a ZCP makes, and we know what BM3's flashes make."

No actually we haven't. Have you seen a same day dyno for a ZCP before and after the tune? If we are going to compare the different dynos from different days, we can keep talking all day long. Also, no one is claiming ZCP engine is better or any different than Non-ZCP hardware-wise. I'm trying to draw a picture here for me and other ZCP owners here to see how much gain we are looking at throughout the rev range and if it is worth it or not. ZCP already comes with a great tune from the factory. I already got the burbles, I already got the startup roar and I'm not really interested in data logging or custom tunes. Therefore, of course I'm going to focus on the performance gain, how smooth the power delivery is, how sensitive is the throttle after the flash etc. Looking at the ZCP dyno graph is one part of this equation. I don't understand why people get defensive about it. Just because I'm looking for a ZCP before/after dyno with bm3 does not mean that I'm claiming or implying ZCP has a different engine than Non-ZCP.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by Euromotive Performance

Data inspires confidence.
Sure you can extrapolate the numbers, but seeing is believing.

Delta numbers get you closer to seeing the whole picture, and the area under the curve on a ZCP will be different from the standard model.

Originally Posted by Sleeper

0% useful to compare two different cars on different dynos. There's absolutely no relevance in comparing that "data" unless you're after generalities and maybes.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by cntzl

I stated several times what I'm focused on in my previous posts. I'm interested in max gain (not peak) or the gain achieved throughout the rev range. What is so difficult to understand?

"We've got enough dynos to know what a ZCP makes, and we know what BM3's flashes make."

No actually we haven't. Have you seen a same day dyno for a ZCP before and after the tune? If we are going to compare the different dynos from different days, we can keep talking all day long. Also, no one is claiming ZCP engine is better or any different than Non-ZCP hardware-wise. I'm trying to draw a picture here for me and other ZCP owners here to see how much gain we are looking at throughout the rev range and if it is worth it or not. ZCP already comes with a great tune from the factory. I already got the burbles, I already got the startup roar and I'm not really interested in data logging or custom tunes. Therefore, of course I'm going to focus on the performance gain, how smooth the power delivery is, how sensitive is the throttle after the flash etc. Looking at the ZCP dyno graph is one part of this equation. I don't understand why people get defensive about it. Just because I'm looking for a ZCP before/after dyno with bm3 does not mean that I'm claiming or implying ZCP has a different engine than Non-ZCP.

Agreed. I nominate you to buy BM3 and do this for us since you're in an area where dynos and BM3 dealers are abundant

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Agreed. I nominate you to buy BM3 and do this for us since you're in an area where dynos and BM3 dealers are abundant

I thought you were going to be the first lol.

[M3pedals]

Does anyone know when the custom tuning interface feature will be available ? I know they were planning on releasing an easier interface to tune from similar to what cobb has done.

[M4NACE]

Are there plans to include a vendor here in Vancouver or Seattle area?

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by chewbakam4

How are you throwing it away when that factory file becomes your stock map to switch to if you want to for service or what have you? That's the beauty of bm3. You can always go back to literally what you had before in like a minute.

Going back to the factory tune is NOT unique to BM3. Most tune products let you do this (VF and ESS for example). They all pull your factory tune and save it for you so you can reload it yourself...

What makes BM3 different is you can actually modify your own tune. Be aware that if you want to modify or tweak a tune, you have to start with your base factory tune. You can't modify the BM3 stage 1 or stage 2 tunes as they are locked to protect their IP. So if you want to tweak, you have to start from scratch with your factory baseline... (...or an unlocked BM3 tune that you got from someone else...)

[1FastS4]

Originally Posted by evanevery

Be aware that if you want to modify or tweak a tune, you have to start with your base factory tune. You can't modify the BM3 stage 1 or stage 2 tunes as they are locked to protect their IP. So if you want to tweak, you have to start from scratch with your factory baseline... (...or an unlocked BM3 tune that you got from someone else...)

And in that case, how many end users or local dyno shops are going to be able to tune beyond the capabilities and power levels of BM3's readily available Stage 1 or Stage 2 tunes?

Custom tuning sounds like an intriguing proposition, but unless you absolutely need it because you are running aftermarket turbos, is it really?

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by Euromotive Performance

Data inspires confidence.
Sure you can extrapolate the numbers, but seeing is believing.

Delta numbers get you closer to seeing the whole picture, and the area under the curve on a ZCP will be different from the standard model.

Flash tuned ZCP = tuned non-ZCP. The hardware is the same. AUC will be the same vs stock tune, all else equal. AUC deltas of stock vs flashed for each car, respectively, will be different due to the different factory programming.

On the JB4 side, different story.

[Reach]

Ya'll can internet jockey this all you want. The numbers are available in multiple threads here to make an informed decision.

[chewbakam4]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Are most of you guys also buying the obd device or just using laptops?

You'll want the device. So much cleaner. Laptop is annoying after a while if you use BM3 daily to run the gauge dash and log.