Best lidar shifter?

[TreyR28]

http://radarandlaserforum.com/showth...Video-s-Review

Here is a link discussing the credibility of radar Roy. Also, I bought a set of ALPs a month ago and have already encountered guns that the LIs and Blinder would not have been able to jam, however I live in metro Atlanta which is known to be the "Lidar capital of the world" where most all laser guns are used for enforcement. I have also had my jammers tested by several different guns and every single gun was JTG. The test included the dragon and the new Stalker XLR, which are notoriously hard to jam.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by TreyR28

http://firewall.rdforum.org/ref.php?...Video-s-Review

Here is a link discussing the credibility of radar Roy.

Ok so I went through that whole thing and there's really not much to impinge RR's credibility IMO ... here's my summary of the talking points:

1. Radar Roy (RR) sells product so he's biased. um, sure, ok maybe
2. RR's tests are rigged. Well, he posts the video so if they are where's the @Swamp2 -like analysis? Nobody names even a single thing.
3. People in RR's video look guilty.

But the most informative part is RR's actual full and complete answer as to why he doesn't test AL; whatever you might think about it, it's fair as far as I can tell:

The original question as posted by "Jimmy": "Will you ever test the Antilaser Priority?"

"Jimmy, you have to understand the risks that I place myself and my business if I do but I do appreciate that you asked your question in a constructive manner rather then a flame as others have done. Because of this I will answer your question

Here are the facts as I know them:

1) Blinder alleges that it violates its patent
2) AntiLaser alleges that it does not
3) Blinder has sued other companies and have successfully settled out of court
4) It is illegal to market products that violate patents
5) In past patent infringement cases I have been served as a defendant by other companies that have alleged patent infringement because my reviews/tests have been seen as marketing
6) Since 1996 I have paid out a substantial amount of money to attorneys in cases such as this.

Now lets discuss first my first amendment rights to what I can say regarding my reviews according to my attorney.

Any statements that I make based upon my opinion on the facts as I know them, is protected free speech, therefore I will expand on my question you have asked.

Is the AL a good laser jammer? – Yes

Are they violating Blinders patent?- All AL has provided me are threatening emails and letters. On the other hand Blinder I have spoken with them and their legal team and based upon the information I have, yes they are.

Will I ever test the AL? – Well your question should be will I ever publish the results of an Antilaser, and right now the answer is no, not till I know for sure that AL’s product does not violate Blinders patent rights.

What would it take for me to test the AL? Well first off clear and convincing evidence from a patent attorney that it does not or a statement from Blinder that it does not, or the findings from a US court of law that it doesn’t.

Jimmy, again thank you for your question and that you posted it in a positive manner without name calling, threats and what ever else that others have done.

Because of your respect, I took the time to answer your question as best as I could."

Original here

[BestRadarDetectors]

Before my reply I want to thank the Administrators for granting us access here to reply to these questions that have been asked.

As someone involved with AntiLaser I can tell you they are one of the first companies in this business. Do some Google searches and you will see the company started in 1998.. Yes that is 16 years ago.

They are not a new company and they actually have the largest presence in the world. In regard to all the rumors that are floating around that is all generated from the competition to stop all the market-share they are loosing because the ALP is a superior product.

Do some research and you will find that Radar Roy and the owner of Blinder USA are very good friends going back over 10 years. Radar Roy also exclusively sells the HP-905 on his website and promotes it through his newsletters.

The video that they put out which was posted above was a sham. It was put out because the testing group RALTEC put out the following video prior showing the HP-905 and various other products not even alerting the Laser Ally Compact gun.

Now there has not been any firmware updates on the Blinder HP-905 since that video and all of a sudden you have a Radar Roy video showing its jamming it. If you know anything about the tones from Laser Guns you would hear that the gun in their video's are getting PT's (Punch Throughs) which means the gun has received a speed and distance yet while you hear the tones they are telling you that there is no reading.

If you read or ask on any countermeasure forum you will quickly see the truth from the various tests they perform in the real world with real members.

If anyone has a system in NJ I would be glad to show you 3 guns in my possession that the Blinder unit does not even alert to let alone jam it while the ALP will Jam all of them.

If you have specific questions I will be glad to answer them.

[BestRadarDetectors]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

So why all the ALP / Roy wars then? I get that Roy's sells stuff but why not just include ALP in that set of stuff? I have all kinds of guesses about why but just wondering if you know the facts.

Also, are there shoot-outs like Roy's 2014 that would compare all of these as he did and then post the results? You had hinted at something like this but a link would be awesome.

thanks!

Last Testing of Members cars was done only last week:

http://www.rdforum.org/showthread.php?t=36699

We are not a part of these tests and these are enthusiasts with their own guns testing each others vehicles. You cant any more real information than that. You can see the IPT (Instant Punch Thoughs on the HP-905's that were tested against some guns) They also did not have the Compact at that test or the Blinders would have done even worse.

[BestRadarDetectors]

Originally Posted by 4/3rds

My M4 arrives next week and I have the ALP waiting to install. I'll post pics when done.

Congrats on your choice. You will be very happy with them. Become a member of any of the countermeasure forums and find a local meet where you can get your install tested against various real laser guns.

[consolidated]

Interesting thread.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by BestRadarDetectors

Last Testing of Members cars was done only last week:

http://www.rdforum.org/showthread.php?t=36699

We are not a part of these tests and these are enthusiasts with their own guns testing each others vehicles. You cant any more real information than that. You can see the IPT (Instant Punch Thoughs on the HP-905's that were tested against some guns) They also did not have the Compact at that test or the Blinders would have done even worse.

Thanks, this is great info and having read it, ALP is now in my consideration set. That said, it just seems odd to me that there so much dis-information when these tests should be very simple things.

I don't have the time to research all of this stuff, but if I were slinging product I'd make a simple video that shows apples-to-apples tests including cameras on the gun read-outs, etc.

Maybe that exists, but if so it's not the easiest to find and i'd appreciate any links. Sham or not, RR makes great videos but that's only because they actually show stuff and seem comprehensive.

The dis-information seems like the easiest thing ever to combat so I'm just not getting it but, like I said, I don't put the time I should into it.

[BestRadarDetectors]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Thanks, this is great info and having read it, ALP is now in my consideration set. That said, it just seems odd to me that there so much dis-information when these tests should be very simple things.

I don't have the time to research all of this stuff, but if I were slinging product I'd make a simple video that shows apples-to-apples tests including cameras on the gun read-outs, etc.

Maybe that exists, but if so it's not the easiest to find and i'd appreciate any links. Sham or not, RR makes great videos but that's only because they actually show stuff and seem comprehensive.

The dis-information seems like the easiest thing ever to combat so I'm just not getting it but, like I said, I don't put the time I should into it.

That's the problem... Most are uneducated in this field and will believe what they see without doing any due diligence. You should have seen all the YouTube comments when that Radar Roy video was released with everyone pointing out all the lies in the video's and each comment pointing out the truth was deleted one after the other. Now the comments on the video's are moderated so no negative comments never see the light day.

If you watch the RALTEC videos you will see they use multiple cameras simultaneously so you see:

1. The gun being used and its displays.
2. They show you the HUD Video so you see exactly what the gun is aiming at so there is no doubt what is being targeted.

Notice you do not see any of this in the Radar Roy video. He could be aiming at the floor and no one would notice any differently...

Like I had mentioned earlier... There are meets on the east coast all the time (NY, NJ, MA, PA) areas and at the RALTEC meets they even let users shoot their own cars with the guns so they can see first hand the truth. There really is no better way. I am in NJ and if anyone has an LI, K40, HP-905 and want to get together and test their vehicle I am willing to meet so they can see with their own eyes.

[Swancoat]

I'm considering the ALP product on my next M3. My current car has LI (and in TX they've worked well. No tickets yet, some definite saved tickets).

That being said, I remember when I was purchasing the LI and doing the research back then. The LI seemed to be the superior product, but it was hard work finding that out. Laser jammer (or 'shifter') and radar detector forums are all rife with misinformation and disinformation, etc.. It's impossible to know what's what. It seems like all of the forums are owned by somebody with an interest in a particular product. There might be an 'independent' forum, but I'm not sure which one.

One forum I remember researching actually forbid the mention of (and banned anyone who mentioned) K40. Why? They said it was because the product was so bad, but that is so suspect. If it's that bad, let everyone talk about it.

For the most part this probably has to do with the nature of the product. They're designed to aid people outside of the strict confines of the law, so you're not going to see any established reviewers step up to really and truly independently review these things. I'm just tired of the hassle to be honest.

[BestRadarDetectors]

Originally Posted by Swancoat

I'm considering the ALP product on my next M3. My current car has LI (and in TX they've worked well. No tickets yet, some definite saved tickets).

That being said, I remember when I was purchasing the LI and doing the research back then. The LI seemed to be the superior product, but it was hard work finding that out. Laser jammer (or 'shifter') and radar detector forums are all rife with misinformation and disinformation, etc.. It's impossible to know what's what. It seems like all of the forums are owned by somebody with an interest in a particular product. There might be an 'independent' forum, but I'm not sure which one.

One forum I remember researching actually forbid the mention of (and banned anyone who mentioned) K40. Why? They said it was because the product was so bad, but that is so suspect. If it's that bad, let everyone talk about it.

For the most part this probably has to do with the nature of the product. They're designed to aid people outside of the strict confines of the law, so you're not going to see any established reviewers step up to really and truly independently review these things. I'm just tired of the hassle to be honest.

At one time Radar Roy did to K40 the same thing that they are doing to ALP now. There is a ton of stuff online if you do some Google searches.

K40 had sought legal remedies against Radar Roy because of erroneous testing of our their K40 system at the time. A product which he of course did not sell. Because of this they stripped any discussion from Roy's countermeasure forum http://www.radardetector.net. (A site which by the way is a ghost town today) because all of the members moved on to more legit forums.

We are part of the countermeasure forum: http://www.radarandlaserforum.com and we mostly started it because we had trouble getting any ALP information out there without information getting deleted on other forums that tried to make the ALP look like it did not exist by deleting any posts that even just asked questions about it.

You can also use http://www.rdforum.org which currently has no control of any manufacture so you can get real advice there.

I understand your frustration which is why I recommend anyone really interested in this stuff to come to a meet and see things for yourself.

The ALP has the most protection of any system on the market. If you are getting a new car definitely choose the ALP. If you already own a different system just keep an eye on new guns coming into your area and make sure they are covered with the product you are using.

See attached screen shot from the RadarDetector.Net forum (The one started by Roy) and you will see all Questions regarding AL & the ALP were deleted.

[ersin]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

So why all the ALP / Roy wars then? I get that Roy's sells stuff but why not just include ALP in that set of stuff? I have all kinds of guesses about why but just wondering if you know the facts.

There always seem to have been drama associated with jammers. I try to stay out of it. Radar Roy hosted one of the first, if not the first, forum discussing countermeasures (such as jammers) and deserves kudos for this. But the drama continues. All I can say is do some reading. I am active on rdforum dot org. I can wholeheartedly recommend this forum as they are not associated with any one product.

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Also, are there shoot-outs like Roy's 2014 that would compare all of these as he did and then post the results? You had hinted at something like this but a link would be awesome.

thanks!

Try rdforum dot org. Folks there are periodically testing detectors and jammers and you can get good results from there. There are several sections of this forum devoted to formal and informal testing results. They do have "preferred" vendors, but that is dependent to the vendor not the products they sell. That is, does the vendor provide good customer service. The forum strives to be completely bias free. Sometimes discussions over this even gets heated, but it is still the most fair forum I have encountered.


Cheers.

[GrussGott]

Great info in this thread!

Another question if anybody knows ... back in the day for Audi you could get the V1 display on the dashboard via a mod to the CAN interface (or something, I don't really know what I'm talking about).

Anybody know why such a mod hasn't come around for Bimmers? It would be awesome to have alerts come up in the HUD, the MMI, and/or the dash.

[BestRadarDetectors]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Great info in this thread!

Another question if anybody knows ... back in the day for Audi you could get the V1 display on the dashboard via a mod to the CAN interface (or something, I don't really know what I'm talking about).

Anybody know why such a mod hasn't come around for Bimmers? It would be awesome to have alerts come up in the HUD, the MMI, and/or the dash.

Original company doing it only supported a few vehicles I guess based on the demand that they had. Not sure what happened to the company but when I went to check on them under their name "DashTronix"

Looks like another company too over the rights for the product:

"Sunset Orange Creations has acquired the exclusive rights to manufacture and sell the DashTronix Radar Projector product line. "

You can reach them here: http://sunsetorangecreations.com/Contact_Us.php

Maybe if enough people show interest they can possible look at expanding their vehicle support.

[ersin]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Anybody know why such a mod hasn't come around for Bimmers? It would be awesome to have alerts come up in the HUD, the MMI, and/or the dash.

The first was the StealthOne by Jaric design. I had one in my E46 M3. The alerts showed up in the nav display. Unfortunately, Jaric has long since ceased to exist.

Dashtronics makes a device to have the alerts show up in the HUD of the Corvette and other select GM cars.


Cheers.

[KeepRightPassLeft]

Excellent thread, with a lot of great information!

I am a founding member of RALETC, and have almost every LIDAR gun currently in production. I participated in beta testing of the ALP which lead to a number of improvements in the ALP and participated in the first head to head performance comparison of the ALP to the Laser Interceptor and the Blinder HP905. I own all three brands of laser jammers but only use the ALP on my cars.

I have met Leon the owner of Blinder USA and sold him DragonEye regular and DragonEye Compact LIDARS. I have also met Tom, the owner of AL USA. I haven't met Cliff, the owner of Laser Interceptor, but use to talk with him often and lenthim some of my LIDARS as well as selling him a DragonEye Compact.

Overall, the LIDAR countermeasure industry had been scummy at best with many companies coming and going; and other companies making baseless claims, while others will just flat out lie. Having met and talked with Leon numerous times, I don't feel that he is a bad guy, but rather a person who is trying to protect his business. He has made some bad decisions or had those who are above him force him to take some actions that he later regretted.

RadarRoy, on the other hand, you cannot believe anything that comes out of his mouth. He is a hired mouthpiece that relies on his past job of as a law enforcement officer and then his ownership of an online radar detector store to give him credibility. K40 which does produce lesser performing laser jammers than Blinder, LI and ALP as well as poorer performing radar detectors than Escort and Valentine did sue RadarRoy saying that the Internet forum that he owned was stating false information about k40 because K40 would not allow RadarRoy to sell their products. According to Leon from Blinder and Bob the VeilGuy who are both very close friends of RadarRoy. RadarRoy called them up crying that k40 was suing him and was going to take his house away from him. With advice and support from Leon and Bob the VeilGuy, RadarRoy and k40 came to an agreement that RadarRoy and any website at he owns or runs cannot state anything about k40. When it came to laser jammers, Roy would only recommend those that he sold,,or later when he sold his company only those products that the new company sold. When you would place Roy's name as a coupon code on checkout, you would receive a discount as well,as Roy getting a commission on the sale. It was only then when Roy's old company started selling Laser Interceptors that he endorsed it. Now, with his old company only carrying an old no longer produced laser jammer, he is back supporting his friend. On both his 2014 Laser Jammer Shootout and his previous test of Laser Veil, RadarRoy falsely reports the Blinder and Laser Veil of jamming to gun. Based on the tone the gun makes those who have shot these guns know this to be false. Each gun makes a specific tone when it records a vehicle's speed. Even Bob the VeilGuy has admitted to me that Roy's testing results of jam to gun are not accurate about his own product.

I myself spoke out about some deficiencies in the Laser Interceptor before the newest Blinder was released. This was at a time when the LI was the best laser jammer available. Instead of seeking ways to fix these inadequacies Cliff from LI chose to try to discredit me. Because of his excellent customer service and interactions with those involved in the hobby of radar detectors and laser jammers, many believed him. When I participated and posted the results of the first head to head jammer test of the ALP, LI and Blinder announcing the superior performance of the ALP over the LI, many of these people thought that I had lied about the results. Ersin, was one of those members at the time that posted that I had to have lied about he results because no laser jammer could be better than the LI. I am happy to see that Ersin as well as other members of the community especially those who doubted me and others in our testing have come to the same conclusion.

I along with other members of RALETC will be conducting testing members of the general public' cars with laser jammers in September. Keep an eye on the radarandlaserforum for more information. We welcome all with a laser jammer installed in their car as well as those who are interested about learning more about radar detectors and laser jammers.

[Deviant]

A lot of great info in this thread. Thanks to all for getting this discussion going. I have some F80 specific questions.

--Where would you mount the sensors and how many would you need? Some have mentioned 4 (2 F and 2 R) and the fronts in the grills but curious as to why it wouldn't make more sense to have them in the right and left air dams.

--What is the general ball park installation cost for a 4, or 5 if it's beneficial, sensors?

[Mobster1983]

Originally Posted by Deviant

A lot of great info in this thread. Thanks to all for getting this discussion going. I have some F80 specific questions.

--Where would you mount the sensors and how many would you need? Some have mentioned 4 (2 F and 2 R) and the fronts in the grills but curious as to why it wouldn't make more sense to have them in the right and left air dams.

--What is the general ball park installation cost for a 4, or 5 if it's beneficial, sensors?

I made a thread on the F30 forums about the install I did on my 335i. I installed them in the front bumper area with no issue. I did the same on my e63 M6 and the location jammed perfectly every time. Saved me several tickets and earned me lots of dirty looks from police. The coverage area is pretty good for the HP-905 and from what I can tell that location will cover the front plate (required where I live) and the headlights.

This is a great thread and I'm going to check out the forums to see if anyone with a gun is in my area. Would love to test these without having to use actual police.

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=961673

I used four sensors on my M6, 2 front and 2 rear. However, I never got hit from the rear with laser, and it seems to me that this is a very very rare occurrence. When I sold my M6. I got a new CPU and installed two sensors on the front of my F30 and Lexus RX (had to buy a new CPU for the Lexus). No issues so far.

[BestRadarDetectors]

Originally Posted by Deviant

A lot of great info in this thread. Thanks to all for getting this discussion going. I have some F80 specific questions.

--Where would you mount the sensors and how many would you need? Some have mentioned 4 (2 F and 2 R) and the fronts in the grills but curious as to why it wouldn't make more sense to have them in the right and left air dams.

--What is the general ball park installation cost for a 4, or 5 if it's beneficial, sensors?

2 ALP heads in the lower grill area and 2 in the rear would protect you well. We have had some BWM owners with 3 in the front but you can do well with just the 2.

For optimal performance you want the heads within around 20"-24" or so. Mounting two leads all way to the sides will leave unprotected zones in the center where a PT could occur.